Consecrated grape juice

[georgemiller]

I recently attended a healing Mass and at the time of communion it was announced that there is both consecrated wine and grape juice. I have never heard of consecrated grape juice. Is this proper to the sacrament of the Eucharist for any reason?

 

[ConstantineTG]

No it is not. Grape juice is not valid matter. Mustum may be used, that is squeezed grape juice that is minimally fermented. Although I haven’t heard mustum being made available to the laity. I know mustum is only allowed for the priest who absolutely must receive under both Sacred Species and when he has trouble in consuming wine. Otherwise, wine must be consecrated for the laity and if the laity has trouble with wine, they are not obliged to receive under the species of wine.

 

[ZxM]

this is one of those tell the bishop yesterday moments.

 

[SonCatcher]

“Mustum” is not a “lay” term, so even if it was mustum that was used, they likely would have announced “grape juice” as an attempt to minimize confusion. Unfortunately, since grape juice is known invalid matter, it only adds to the confusion.

If you’re worried about it, contact the priest to determine if it was indeed mustum.

 

[ConstantineTG]

“Mustum” is not a “lay” term, so even if it was mustum that was used, they likely would have announced “grape juice” as an attempt to minimize confusion. Unfortunately, since grape juice is known invalid matter, it only adds to the confusion.

If you’re worried about it, contact the priest to determine if it was indeed mustum.

The question is if mustum can be offered to the laity. I know the reason it was allowed was for the priest who may have alcohol issues. The laity need not receive both Sacred Species anyway. While it would be valid, it would be illicit, I think.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

The question is if mustum can be offered to the laity. I know the reason it was allowed was for the priest who may have alcohol issues. The laity need not receive both Sacred Species anyway. While it would be valid, it would be illicit, I think.

That agrees with what I have read.

 

[ConstantineTG]

this is one of those tell the bishop yesterday moments.

Ah, bishops, the complaint desks of the Catholic Church

 

[curlycool89]

The question is if mustum can be offered to the laity. I know the reason it was allowed was for the priest who may have alcohol issues. The laity need not receive both Sacred Species anyway. While it would be valid, it would be illicit, I think.

If a person was both a celiac (couldn’t have gluten) and also an alcoholic (or couldn’t drink alcohol), then they could request to receive mustum for their reception of the Eucharist.

 

[Phemie]

If a person was both a celiac (couldn’t have gluten) and also an alcoholic (or couldn’t drink alcohol), then they could request to receive mustum for their reception of the Eucharist.

But IIRC, each priest has to petition Rome individually for approval to use mustum, he can’t just start using it of his own accord. There’s no way a chalice of mustum would licitly be available to any of the laity who wish to partake.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

Contrary to what some have posted on this, in one circumstance, grape juice may be consecrated. If the Priest celebrating the Mass is an alcoholic, he may use grape juice that has zero fermentation. BUT, he must also use wine, in a separate chalice, which is consecrated for everyone else.

If a Mass is attended by a group of alcoholics (such as an AA group), then the Priest can utilize more grape juice, just for them. The Church does indeed acknowledge that for an alcoholic, even a sip of wine might set them off on a drinking binge.

This is the ONLY exception that is allowed.

 

[malphono]

From the USCCB website:

In the same letter, the Prefect also restates that mustum is grape juice in which fermentation has begun, but has been suspended with the result that its alcohol content does not reach the levels found in most table wines. The process used for the suspension of fermentation must not alter the nature of the juice in any way. As with gluten in bread, so also the amount of alcohol needed for validity in mustum is not determined by a minimum percentage or weight. As well, pasteurized grape juice in which all alcohol has been evaporated through high temperature preparations is invalid matter for Mass.

 

[PacoG]

Contrary to what some have posted on this, in one circumstance, grape juice may be consecrated. If the Priest celebrating the Mass is an alcoholic, he may use grape juice that has zero fermentation. BUT, he must also use wine, in a separate chalice, which is consecrated for everyone else.

If a Mass is attended by a group of alcoholics (such as an AA group), then the Priest can utilize more grape juice, just for them. The Church does indeed acknowledge that for an alcoholic, even a sip of wine might set them off on a drinking binge.

This is the ONLY exception that is allowed.

Can you please cite authority for this. With all due respect, is this just something you made up?

 

[Nowhere_Man]

Contrary to what some have posted on this, in one circumstance, grape juice may be consecrated. If the Priest celebrating the Mass is an alcoholic, he may use grape juice that has zero fermentation. BUT, he must also use wine, in a separate chalice, which is consecrated for everyone else.

If a Mass is attended by a group of alcoholics (such as an AA group), then the Priest can utilize more grape juice, just for them. The Church does indeed acknowledge that for an alcoholic, even a sip of wine might set them off on a drinking binge.

This is the ONLY exception that is allowed.

Can you provide a source? This isn’t even logical since the laity are NOT REQUIRED to Commune under both species. Therefore no special accommodations would be made for sensitivities to the Species of Wine.

 

[TheMc]

Contrary to what some have posted on this, in one circumstance, grape juice may be consecrated. If the Priest celebrating the Mass is an alcoholic, he may use grape juice that has zero fermentation. BUT, he must also use wine, in a separate chalice, which is consecrated for everyone else.

If a Mass is attended by a group of alcoholics (such as an AA group), then the Priest can utilize more grape juice, just for them. The Church does indeed acknowledge that for an alcoholic, even a sip of wine might set them off on a drinking binge.

This is the ONLY exception that is allowed.

I can understand this being the case for the priest, but since there is no requirement to receive under both species, wouldn’t the only case that grape juice is allowed (if ever) if there is a ciliac alcoholic?

 

[LosCampanas]

Can you provide a source? This isn’t even logical since the laity are NOT REQUIRED to Commune under both species. Therefore no special accommodations would be made for sensitivities to the Species of Wine.

Good grief. There is NO “Species of Wine.” Use “Species of the Precious Blood” if you must but “Species of Wine?” No way.

 

[Nowhere_Man]

Good grief. There is NO “Species of Wine.” Use “Species of the Precious Blood” if you must but “Species of Wine?” No way.

If using the phrase “Species of Wine” is wrong, then there’s a big issue with the Code of Canon Law:

“Can. 925 Holy communion is to be given under the form of bread alone, or under both species according to the norm of the liturgical laws, or even under the form of wine alone in a case of necessity.”

In any case, “species” refers to the sensual accidents that remain, not what the matter has Become after Consecration.

 

[Brendan]

Good grief. There is NO “Species of Wine.” Use “Species of the Precious Blood” if you must but “Species of Wine?” No way.

It most certainly IS the correct term, in fact, it is the one of the only correct ways of distinguishing the contents of the ciborum vs the contents of the chalice.

The Church uses the term ‘species’ in the Thomistic sense ( ala St. Thomas Aquinas). It denotes a seperation that can be denoted.

The seperation that can be denoted, of course are the accidents. The contents of the ciborium share the accidental properties of bread, so they are of the same species in the regard. The same is true for the contents of the chalice.

One cannot correctly state that it is the distinction we are talking about can be talked about as the “Species of the Precious Blood”. Both the chalice and the ciborium contain the Precious Blood of Christ, as He is whole and complete in both forms.

In either the chalice or the ciborium exists the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, present and ‘contained’ within the Living Body of Christ.

 

[Nowhere_Man]

The Church uses the term ‘species’ in the Thomistic sense ( ala St. Thomas Aquinas). It denotes a seperation that can be denoted.

Where does Saint Thomas Aquinas state the this? I looked for a statement from him, but I couldn’t find it.

 

[Brendan]

Where does Saint Thomas Aquinas state the this? I looked for a statement from him, but I couldn’t find it.

They are Platonic in origin, but enter into Church usage via Aquinas.

After these came Plato, who, wishing to save the certitude of our knowledge of truth through the intellect, maintained that, besides these things corporeal, there is another genus of beings, separate from matter and movement, which beings he called species or ideas, by participation of which each one of these singular and sensible things is said to be either a man, or a horse, or the like.

S.T. I, Q. 84, Art. I

macroevolution.net/species.html

Note that Aquinas specifies (no pun ) that the distinctions are ‘sensible’, that is, pertaining to the senses. These are accidental properties.

The Blessed Sacrament retains the sensible qualities of the substance that was confected, that of bread and of wine. It appears to our senses as bread and wine ( taste. texture, color, mass, chemical properties, etc…)

After confection, the two Substances of bread and wine are changed into a single Substance is one and the same, with no essential distinction; that of the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. The chalice and ciborium contain the same ‘thing’, the full Christ, Body and Blood together.

The accidental, or sensible properties remain, that of bread and of wine, so they remain different species (sensible\accidental properties bread and of wine) while being of the same Substance.

So thus they remain the species of bread, and the species of wine.

 

[Nowhere_Man]

S.T First Part, Q. 84, Art. I

macroevolution.net/species.html

Note that Aquinas specifies (no pun ) that the distinctions are ‘sensible’, that is, pertaining to the senses. These are accidental properties.

The Blessed Sacrament retains the sensible qualities of the substance that was confected, that of bread and of wine.

After confection, the Substance is one and the same, with no essential distinction, that of the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ.

The accidental, or sensible properties remain, that of bread and of wine, so they remain different species (of bread and of wine) while being of the same Substance.

Thank you very much!
I love Saint Thomas Aquinas.