Consecration to russia

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Hi! I’m wondering if anyone can help me with something. I recently read something where a priest said that the consecration to Russia requested by our Lady at Fatima hasn’t taken place yet. This was sort of a throwaway sentence in something longer, and it was not in something written by Fr. Gruner or his supporters. I don’t want to start a debate about whether or not the Fatima consecration took place. What I want to know is if the Church ever OFFICIALLY stated that the consecration actually happened according to our Lady’s stipulations, and if it is disobedient to the Church to question whether or not John Paul the Great’s 1984 consecration actually “counted.” References to websites or books that discuss the issue intelligently and without polemics would be very helpful. Thanks!
 
Furthermore, Sr. Lucy said that beloved John Paul the Great had met the conditions for this consecration OF (not “to”) Russia.
 
moderate_trad said:
…*** What I want to know is if the Church ever OFFICIALLY stated that the consecration actually happened according to our Lady’s stipulations,*** … is disobedient to the Church to question whether or not John Paul the Great’s 1984 consecration actually “counted.”…References…
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  1. Sister Lucia was asked several time before she died (2005) if the Consecration of the World (Russia obviously included)…was satisfactory for the Blessed Virgin Mary. **Sister Lucia said YES IT WAS…it was accepted!**Here is the official Vatican Document website with all the answers to the consecration and the details of the Secrets of Fatima:
    vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html
  2. Father Gruner…God bless him…but he is simply…not the Vicar of Christ on Earth. What he says is disobedient to the Holy Father and the teachings of the Magisterium…and most seriously causes scandal and spiritual disunity problems in the Body of Christ…this is not just matter of him vs. others…he is affecting souls…I can’t judge his heart or mind – motives — but I can judge his actions…and he is wrong and thus, I pray, that he is forgiven.
  3. Also: catholicdoors.com/faq/qu26.htm#answer1
****** Q. ******1. Was Russia ever consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary?
******A. ******Yes, it was.

Return to Table of Contents ****** Q. ******2. This is confusing. Some say that it was while others say that it was not. Why this confusion?
******A. ******Those who have a spiritual mind can perceive the truth in accordance with God’s Divine Plan. Those of a worldly mind, they have their own agenda as to how or when the Consecration of Russia should have been done to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. As such, they reject the truth.

Return to Table of Contents ****** Q. ******3. When was the Consecration done? ******
A. ******It was done on March 25, 1984.

Return to Table of Contents ****** Q. ******4. What makes the Consecration of 1984 any different than those of 1942, 1967 and 1982? ******
A. ******In a letter addressed to Sr. Mary of Bethlehem by Sr. Lucia Santos, the seer of Fatima, Sr. Lucia clearly states that the Consecrations of 1942, 1967 and 1982 were not made in union with all the bishops of the world. But, the Consecration of March 25, 1984 that was made with the bishops who wanted to unite with His Holiness John Paul II, was made as Our Lady had requested.
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******Q. ******5. What assurance do I have that this is an authentic letter?
****** A. ******Father Robert J Fox, a world renown Catholic writer, wrote to Sr. Lucia Santos to inquire about the validity of the Consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. He asked,
"If the Consecration made by Pope John Paul II on March, 25, 1984 in union with all the bishops of the world, accomplished the conditions for the Consecration of Russia according to the request of Our Lady in Tuy on June 13 of 1929?"
On July 3, 1990, St. Lucia responded to Father Robert J Fox by saying, "Yes, it was accomplished, and since then I have said that it was made." "And I say that no other person responds for me, it is I who receive and open all letters and respond to them."
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4. Lastly…from CAF:

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/statusicon_khaki/post_old.gif Nov 25, '04, 3:54 pm itsjustdave1988 http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/statusicon_khaki/user_offline.gif
Regular Member
Join Date: June 1, 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,880
Religion: Catholic
**Re: New Fatima Documentary to Air, Critical of Vatican
**
A consecration is simply a prayer. A prayer cannot be invalid as if it were a Holy Sacrament. With such a prayer, any grace bestowed by God comes *ex opere operantis. *It is not like a Holy Sacrament, which requires valid form, matter, and intent for the grace to be bestowed *ex opere operato. *So the whole argument of validity is absurd.

Either the pope consecrated Russia or he did not. The pope said he did, and did so quite publically. **Opinions regarding validity are irrelevant and make no theological sense. **
__________________
God bless,
Dave
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Pax Christi
 
Lancer said:
  1. Sister Lucia was asked several time before she died (2005) if the Consecration of the World (Russia obviously included)…was satisfactory for the Blessed Virgin Mary. **Sister Lucia said YES IT WAS…it was accepted!**Here is the official Vatican Document website with all the answers to the consecration and the details of the Secrets of Fatima:
    vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html
  2. Father Gruner…God bless him…but he is simply…not the Vicar of Christ on Earth. What he says is disobedient to the Holy Father and the teachings of the Magisterium…and most seriously causes scandal and spiritual disunity problems in the Body of Christ…this is not just matter of him vs. others…he is affecting souls…I can’t judge his heart or mind – motives — but I can judge his actions…and he is wrong and thus, I pray, that he is forgiven.
  3. Also: catholicdoors.com/faq/qu26.htm#answer1 4. Lastly…from CAF:
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/statusicon_khaki/post_old.gif Nov 25, '04, 3:54 pm itsjustdave1988 http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/statusicon_khaki/user_offline.gif
Regular Member
Join Date: June 1, 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,880
Religion: Catholic

Pax Christi
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Thank you very much.
 
moderate_trad said:
But does the Church’s infallibility extend to topics such as this? That’s the answer that I’m trying to find out.
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The infallibility of the Church extends to faith and moral. Since consecration is prayer and prayer is a matter of both faith and morals (for prayer requires faith and all good things are bound to the Divine Law), the infallibility of the Church extends toward the consecration.
 
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