Consensus on beginning of life

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burchgsb15

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I am in dialogue with some one who is pro-choice and he hinges his whole argument on "The medical and scientific community does not have a consensus on whether life begins at conception. Can anybody offer clarification? I know Trent Horn said in an article from this site that confirmed that life begins from conception, but this guy is adamant about a “consensus.” Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
burchgsb15 said:
I am in dialogue with some one who is pro-choice and he hinges his whole argument on "The medical and scientific community does not have a consensus on whether life begins at conception. Can anybody offer clarification? I know Trent Horn said in an article from this site that confirmed that life begins from conception, but this guy is adamant about a “consensus.” Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
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If a woman takes a pregnancy test after a missed menstrual cycle it means she is pregnant and when she goes to her OB they can tell how far along she is they can p(name removed by moderator)oint that now! Women don’t become pregnant when they find out they already are pregnant! Everyone believes this.

Don’t let whomever you are debating trick you with Saint Augustine’s writing that the ensoulement begins in the third month because he lived in the third century and didn’t have access to the science we have now. He was basing it on when most women start appearing to be physically pregnant. They didn’t know about the early stages of human development.
 
burchgsb15 said:
I am in dialogue with some one who is pro-choice and he hinges his whole argument on "The medical and scientific community does not have a consensus on whether life begins at conception. Can anybody offer clarification? I know Trent Horn said in an article from this site that confirmed that life begins from conception, but this guy is adamant about a “consensus.” Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
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I wish supporters of life would stop calling abortion ‘choice.’
 
Hello Burchgsb.
burchgsb15 said:
I am in dialogue with some one who is pro-choice and he hinges his whole argument on "The medical and scientific community does not have a consensus on whether life begins at conception. Can anybody offer clarification? I know Trent Horn said in an article from this site that confirmed that life begins from conception, but this guy is adamant about a “consensus.” Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Ask him if when his loved one was brought into the ER with life threatening emergencies if he’d want a consensus taken before anything was done to preserve that loved ones’ life and if the consensus was to let them die, even though their life could easily have been saved, would he agree the consensus *was *what was best? How about a consensus to out law abortion? If one was taken and abortion was again outlawed would he fight to bring it back or go along with the consensus?

Glenda
 
As a Chemist…
Once the ova+sperm join and the the DNA joins and sequencing begins, life has occurred. This biochemical reaction will proceed to the ultimate end which the death of an organism and death can only occur where there was life.

Some go further back to the moment the sperm penetrates, in my mind the chemical reaction has to start. There are so many natural factors that could prevent the DNA from joining and until the DNA joins, the person that might be, cannot be… that one molecule, that is for me the key… once joined… once the cells start to reproduce to form an organism, that’s life in motion.

Note I use the term organism… this is to differentiate a tumor, gamete, etc… from an organism. An organism, given the proper time, environment, and nurture will establish an independent existence, where as the former will not no matter how long a time given, environment placed, or subsistence provided.

As a convert, this was one of the harder belief, from prochoice to prolife, that I had to deal with…
Bread to flesh… Wine to blood, The Chemist in me screams… REALLY… and the faith in me softly says, yes, really… you can’t see the electrons and yet you know they are there, you can’t see the flesh and yet, you know that it is there! Not a hard leap of faith.

Marian doctrine, not even a hiccup, it has always seemed to me to be quite obvious who she was and is and that to hold her in great esteem should be a given… and that was from just reading scripture.

Start of life… that one stumped me until I heard a BioChemist explain the basics of biochemical reactions (mind you I’ve been a Chemist for almost 3 decades), it was almost like the Lord was using this fellow Chemist to explain the obvious to me as a Chemist… have you ever known a chemical reaction to suddenly stop without reason? To change course in synthesis without contamination or other outside force? Then why would the chemical reaction that starts upon the sequencing be any different? That molecule describes what the physical characteristics of that human being are to be and unless damaged, altered, or otherwise interfered with … the reaction will cumulate into a human being. It was one of those :doh2: moments in my life>> of course, life begins basically at conception.
 
burchgsb15 said:
I am in dialogue with some one who is pro-choice and he hinges his whole argument on "The medical and scientific community does not have a consensus on whether life begins at conception. Can anybody offer clarification? I know Trent Horn said in an article from this site that confirmed that life begins from conception, but this guy is adamant about a “consensus.” Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
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I would say “Shouldn’t we error on the side of caution? If life does begin at conception then Abortion at anytime is murder. Unless it can be proven that it doesn’t then we run the risk that it does.”
 
If it is growing it is alive. If it has human parents it is human.
 
burchgsb15 said:
I am in dialogue with some one who is pro-choice and he hinges his whole argument on "The medical and scientific community does not have a consensus on whether life begins at conception. Can anybody offer clarification? I know Trent Horn said in an article from this site that confirmed that life begins from conception, but this guy is adamant about a “consensus.” Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Every embryology text book describes a human embryo as the point at which a new life has begun.

nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/file/research/embryos/reports/humanembryo.pdf

I think this link is a goldmine for your question:

princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html
 
burchgsb15 said:
I am in dialogue with some one who is pro-choice and he hinges his whole argument on "The medical and scientific community does not have a consensus on whether life begins at conception. Can anybody offer clarification?.
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Yes. Tell him that anyone who’s ever bought a box of condoms knows when life begins.
 
Hello Z.
z_0101 said:
As a Chemist…
Once the ova+sperm join and the the DNA joins and sequencing begins, life has occurred. This biochemical reaction will proceed to the ultimate end which the death of an organism and death can only occur where there was life.

Some go further back to the moment the sperm penetrates, in my mind the chemical reaction has to start. There are so many natural factors that could prevent the DNA from joining and until the DNA joins, the person that might be, cannot be… that one molecule, that is for me the key… once joined… once the cells start to reproduce to form an organism, that’s life in motion.

Note I use the term organism… this is to differentiate a tumor, gamete, etc… from an organism. An organism, given the proper time, environment, and nurture will establish an independent existence, where as the former will not no matter how long a time given, environment placed, or subsistence provided.

As a convert, this was one of the harder belief, from prochoice to prolife, that I had to deal with…
Bread to flesh… Wine to blood, The Chemist in me screams… REALLY… and the faith in me softly says, yes, really… you can’t see the electrons and yet you know they are there, you can’t see the flesh and yet, you know that it is there! Not a hard leap of faith.

Marian doctrine, not even a hiccup, it has always seemed to me to be quite obvious who she was and is and that to hold her in great esteem should be a given… and that was from just reading scripture.

Start of life… that one stumped me until I heard a BioChemist explain the basics of biochemical reactions (mind you I’ve been a Chemist for almost 3 decades), it was almost like the Lord was using this fellow Chemist to explain the obvious to me as a Chemist… have you ever known a chemical reaction to suddenly stop without reason? To change course in synthesis without contamination or other outside force? Then why would the chemical reaction that starts upon the sequencing be any different? That molecule describes what the physical characteristics of that human being are to be and unless damaged, altered, or otherwise interfered with … the reaction will cumulate into a human being. It was one of those :doh2: moments in my life>> of course, life begins basically at conception.
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Very nice answer. More than sufficient.

Glenda
 
All you need to show that there is indeed consensus, is an embryology book. Show him each stage of development and let’s see if there is no life. At five weeks pregnant - that is three weeks after conception when most women haven’t even found out they are pregnant orthey jjust found out - the heart is beating and the circulatory system is formed. Does he think that there is no consensus as to a beating heart meaning that there is life?

The problem with pro choice is that most of them think that life begins when the mother decided that the child is alive. That is beyond silly. So if your mother doesn’t think you are alive and she thinks you are not a person then you are death. Imagine if doctors would declare death based on what the mother thinks? Silly. Grab an embriology book and show it to him.
 
There is a consensus. If someone wants to disprove this statement, let them bring forth a respected doctor or scientist with a credible claim to the contrary.

There are quibbles in some places about whether it is conception or implantation that marks the beginning of life, but those are mostly arguments of convenience, not principle. I’m not aware of ANY half-cogent argument that a fetus isn’t alive.
 
I really appreciate the help. I read all of the material given. I get the feeling that he will remain unconvinced but nonetheless…like Benjamin Franklin said, “a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.” Also, I listened to a recent podcast of Cathlic Answers and Trent Horn quotes Law Professor Hadley Arkes who said, “absence of consensus does not mean absence of truth.” For me it’s not necessarily “winning” the debate but doing my best to defend the defenseless, defend Truth and our Blessed Lord. The Peace of Christ be with you all!
 
burchgsb15 said:
I really appreciate the help. I read all of the material given. I get the feeling that he will remain unconvinced but nonetheless…like Benjamin Franklin said, “a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.” Also, I listened to a recent podcast of Cathlic Answers and Trent Horn quotes Law Professor Hadley Arkes who said, “absence of consensus does not mean absence of truth.” For me it’s not necessarily “winning” the debate but doing my best to defend the defenseless, defend Truth and our Blessed Lord. The Peace of Christ be with you all!
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Perhaps after giving this to him, ask him to prove his side, that there is no consensus. Put it on him.
 
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