Consequences facing Cardinal Keith O'Brien

[Tighty_Whitey]

I would like to know what if anything is going to happen to Cardinal O’Brien. He issued a statement a few days ago admitting to his illicit actions and further had the gall to state that he was now “retiring”, how nice and tidy of him.

Does he face any sanctions?
Does he face discipline from his religious order?
Might he be defrocked?
Might he be excommunicated?
What should he be called? Father? Cardinal? Mr.?

We are called to love God with all of our hearts, minds and souls and our neighbor as ourselves, however his actions have done grave damage to this commandment, IMHO.

So will this all be whitewashed and swept under some 15th century rug in the Vatican museum? I’ll take care not to stumble over on my next visit.

 

[april32010]

I would like to know what if anything is going to happen to Cardinal O’Brien. He issued a statement a few days ago admitting to his illicit actions and further had the gall to state that he was now “retiring”, how nice and tidy of him.

Does he face any sanctions?
Does he face discipline from his religious order?
Might he be defrocked?
Might he be excommunicated?
What should he be called? Father? Cardinal? Mr.?

We are called to love God with all of our hearts, minds and souls and our neighbor as ourselves, however his actions have done grave damage to this commandment, IMHO.

So will this all be whitewashed and swept under some 15th century rug in the Vatican museum? I’ll take care not to stumble over on my next visit.

take care not to stumble on that plank in your eye

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Does he face any sanctions?

He will likely be barred from the public celebration of the Sacraments. It will be up to the new bishop of his diocese.

Does he face discipline from his religious order?

He is not a member of a religious order.

Might he be defrocked?

Could be. That would have to recommended by his new bishop.

Might he be excommunicated?

Unlikely.

What should he be called? Father? Cardinal? Mr.?

It is very unlikely that you will see him in public to address him, but he is still a Cardinal.

 

[april32010]

conjecture on this is inappropriate , its well above anyone on this forums pay grade.

 

[Pilgrim1701]

Oh now…
Cardinal O’Brien does need to be held accountable. Men like him have done irreparable reputational damage to the church; caused grave scandal in Church speak.
He has in the usual non-committal language, admitted to sexually abusing seminarians, and there also huge questions as to his response to victims of sexual abuse who reported it to him.
Accountability usually implies there are repercussions. This came out before the conclave.
He knew about these allegations and still intended to participate until the Pope ‘resigned’ him. Best thing Ben XVI did in his last days in office.

 

[Joe_5859]

He has resigned and his resignation has been accepted. He holds no position of authority now other than his role as cardinal. And he declined to participate in the conclave.

How exactly will this get swept under the rug? It’s plastered all over the media. That’s not going to somehow be undone.

 

[DeusSalusNostra]

I sympathise with His Eminence, but what he did was wrong.

I think it would be fitting for him to recieve an “cessatio a divinis” - The cessation from Divine service (i.e. he can’t celebrate any Liturgical Service or grant sacraments unless under extreme conditions where a soul is at risk of damnation.

This is the same kind of cessation given to SSPX Priests and Bishops. (Then again, I believe that it should be given to Priests who do the Communion in the hand thing - that’s only on my planet though)

Basically, if he was given “a divinis”, then he would still be a Bishop and a Priest, maybe not a Cardinal - this is unknown at the moment (A Cardinal is simply a Canon of the Diocese of Rome).

You are a Priest forever, as we hear in Sacred Scripture, but you can be sanctioned for disobedience to the Church that you serve as a Priest.

*In Magnam Fidem,

Deus Salus Nostra*

 

[Michael_Allen]

He’s had a pretty humiliating public vilification and “outing” in the press over here - largely over perceived hypocrisy. I think by most people’s standards he’s paid quite a heavy price by the loss of his reputation (which will never be regained now) and his misdemeanors and homosexuality being dragged through the press for all to see.

Perhaps he should be allowed a quiet retirement outside of the public gaze now - I think he’s probably quite a broken and humbled man.

He, and all involved, are in my prayers - may our Lord bring complete healing to all.

 

[Tighty_Whitey]

Oh now…
Cardinal O’Brien does need to be held accountable. Men like him have done irreparable reputational damage to the church; caused grave scandal in Church speak.
He has in the usual non-committal language, admitted to sexually abusing seminarians, and there also huge questions as to his response to victims of sexual abuse who reported it to him.
Accountability usually implies there are repercussions. This came out before the conclave.
He knew about these allegations and still intended to participate until the Pope ‘resigned’ him. Best thing Ben XVI did in his last days in office.

I agree that Pope Benedict’s action on this is very positive and reflects his earnest efforts to build a stronger Church.

 

[Tighty_Whitey]

He has resigned and his resignation has been accepted. He holds no position of authority now other than his role as cardinal. And he declined to participate in the conclave.

How exactly will this get swept under the rug? It’s plastered all over the media. That’s not going to somehow be undone.

What I think is going to be swept under the rug is the issue of his sanction. In short, will he be just left to enjoy a quiet retirement or will he face serious consequences for his violating his vows. That is what I’m curious about.

 

[Tighty_Whitey]

I sympathise with His Eminence, but what he did was wrong.

I think it would be fitting for him to recieve an “cessatio a divinis” - The cessation from Divine service (i.e. he can’t celebrate any Liturgical Service or grant sacraments unless under extreme conditions where a soul is at risk of damnation.

This is the same kind of cessation given to SSPX Priests and Bishops. (Then again, I believe that it should be given to Priests who do the Communion in the hand thing - that’s only on my planet though)

Basically, if he was given “a divinis”, then he would still be a Bishop and a Priest, maybe not a Cardinal - this is unknown at the moment (A Cardinal is simply a Canon of the Diocese of Rome).

You are a Priest forever, as we hear in Sacred Scripture, but you can be sanctioned for disobedience to the Church that you serve as a Priest.

*In Magnam Fidem,

Deus Salus Nostra*

I can respect your point of view on this topic and the uniqueness of your perspective on Communion in hand.

 

[Tighty_Whitey]

take care not to stumble on that plank in your eye

Thanks April, I thank you in advance for your prayers!

 

[Cojuanco]

I would like to know what if anything is going to happen to Cardinal O’Brien. He issued a statement a few days ago admitting to his illicit actions and further had the gall to state that he was now “retiring”, how nice and tidy of him.

Does he face any sanctions?
Does he face discipline from his religious order?
Might he be defrocked?
Might he be excommunicated?
What should he be called? Father? Cardinal? Mr.?

We are called to love God with all of our hearts, minds and souls and our neighbor as ourselves, however his actions have done grave damage to this commandment, IMHO.

So will this all be whitewashed and swept under some 15th century rug in the Vatican museum? I’ll take care not to stumble over on my next visit.

Depends on what the facts turn out to be - was it merely engaging in inappropiate activities with seminarians, or were issues of consent involved?

I doubt he’d be excommunicated - he’s a manifest sinner, not a heretic.

 

[SamH]

What I think is going to be swept under the rug is the issue of his sanction. In short, will he be just left to enjoy a quiet retirement or will he face serious consequences for his violating his vows. That is what I’m curious about.

How do you face “serious consequences”? Unless you can find a law he broke he’s done. I do something stupid that embarrasses my employer. I’m told I can quit or be fired - beyond that there’s not a lot that can be done. They can’t legally seize my retirement; they can’t toss me into employer jail.

 

[LilyM]

What I think is going to be swept under the rug is the issue of his sanction. In short, will he be just left to enjoy a quiet retirement or will he face serious consequences for his violating his vows. That is what I’m curious about.

The fact that most everyone in his home country, and in most other pars of the world as well, knows that he has done grave wrong, is not going to bring consequence enough?

Certainly he will be open to bejng harassed physically and verbally whenever he goes into public. He will almost as certainly receive abusive if not threatening phone calls, letters, email or whatnot.

It’s not like he has been whisked away to some secret location where such things cannot happen to him. And they will. Is that not a consequence?

 

[Brendan_64]

So will this all be whitewashed and swept under some 15th century rug in the Vatican museum?

So how exactly has this been whitewashed and swept under the carpet? Accusations were made, the Church investigated, and Cardinal O’Brien has swiftly fallen on his sword. The Church has dealt with this one very well.

And let’s be fair to Cardinal O’Brien, this scandal is not at all in the same league as the previous scandals that have rocked our Church. Because of his own weakness he made advances towards other adult males, who would have been able to tell him where to go. It was certainly wrong of him, and it’s quite right that he had to go, but this is nothing remotely on the same scale as the pedophile priest cover-ups (and there are cardinal(s) with direct involvement in that who will be voting in the conclave). I’d rather have had Cardinal O’Brien in the conclave than certain Cardinals who were involved in covering up the actions of pedophile priests.

 

[Cojuanco]

And, unless they find otherwise, IIRC the acts were consensual. Sodomy isn’t illegal in Scotland.

 

[Tighty_Whitey]

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with the clergy sex abuse cases. This is plain and simply about the FACT that this CARDINAL violated his vows all the while assuming positions of EXTREME TRUST AND CONFIDENCE from all levels of the Catholic Church. He could have been elected pope! The Church must address his serious violations of his most sacred duties and I am seeking to learn what those consequences are likely to be and how, going forward, the Church is going to sanction this man for his grievous actions.

 

[LilyM]

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with the clergy sex abuse cases. This is plain and simply about the FACT that this CARDINAL violated his vows all the while assuming positions of EXTREME TRUST AND CONFIDENCE from all levels of the Catholic Church. He could have been elected pope! The Church must address his serious violations of his most sacred duties and I am seeking to learn what those consequences are likely to be and how, going forward, the Church is going to sanction this man for his grievous actions.

If he’d been elected Pope he would not have been the worst Pope we’ve ever had - in fact he wouldn’t even make the top five. The world has kept turning, the Church has kept functioning and the Holy Spirit has kept protecting the Popes from teaching error regardless of the personal sins of our Popes which have been many and grievous.

We are not police or courts. We are, or should be, in the business of forgiving wrongdoing rather than lynching wrongdoers. Take the plank out of your own eye and let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that - or do you think that only applies to little and easy-to-forgive sins rather than all sin, or only to your sins rather than those of others?

And what precise consequences do you have in mind? Yes he has sinned, certainly he should be booted from office - he has been. What else? Has he committed a crime? Doubtful, but I am sure the police are investigating already and will prosecute if evidence of crime is found.

What then? Excommunication? That is and always has been only for the unrepentant, so cannot be applied to this case. What exactly do you want to see happen? A public flogging perhaps?

 

[Joe_5859]

If he’d been elected Pope he would have been very far from being the worst Pope we’ve ever had - in fact he wouldn’t even make the top five. The world has kept turning, the Church has kept functioning and the Holy Spirit has kept protecting the Popes from teaching error regardless.

We are not police or courts. We are, or should be, in the business of forgiving wrongdoing rather than lynching wrongdoers. Take the plank out of your own eye and let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that - or do you think that only applies to little and easy-to-forgive sins rather than all sin, or only to your sins rather than those of others?

Not to excuse what the Cardinal did. It is truly tragic. But it sure ain’t my job to see him get his comeuppance.