Conservative Parish in Orlando

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The Cathedral of the Incarnation (continuing Anglican) is due to be received into the Ordinariate soon, soon being a very relative term. Keep an ear out for that.

Orlando is an interesting place as far as churches go. The diocese tends to keep priests in a parish for a long while, so parishes end up being fairly unified, whether good or bad. There are many orthodox parishes, just keep searching. I believe there is a diocesan Latin Mass in Sanford, likely their Ordinary Form has all the same bells and smells.
 
The Cathedral of the Incarnation (continuing Anglican) is due to be received into the Ordinariate soon, soon being a very relative term. Keep an ear out for that.

Orlando is an interesting place as far as churches go. The diocese tends to keep priests in a parish for a long while, so parishes end up being fairly unified, whether good or bad. There are many orthodox parishes, just keep searching. I believe there is a diocesan Latin Mass in Sanford, likely their Ordinary Form has all the same bells and smells.
From my understanding the members will be received on September 16. The priest/ priests will probably be ordained within a short time after that.

Once it is part of the Ordinariate, Catholics can attend Mass there if they are unhappy with what is going on in their parish. It should be interesting to witness an Anglican Use Liturgy and expand Catholics knowledge of how diversified the Catholic Church is.

God Bless

Bernadette
 
I’m quite sure it is okay to use men/women for washing of feet on Holy Thursday. I think they are just supposed to use members of the congregations, but it doesn’t matter who. We are all disciples of Jesus.
Yeah, people told me it is allowed, but man, when last year I had to witness our very masculine and attractive pastor, bend down and wash and kiss all those cute womens feet, I couldn’'t avoid but find the whole thing very, very sexy… So much so that I blushed …Well, but what do I know, I am just a sinner, with a perverted mind, trying to convert and come back to the church…I wonder how many people with lustful thoughts like me are around there in the churches though.
What I mean is: I never thought church function would become a source of temptation for me… I really hope next year they will do it the traditional way: 12 men.

P.S.: and please, please, don’t tell me I don’t have a point because the priest washing other mens feet could be seen as sexy by same-sex attracted parishioners, please…
 
There are some misunderstandings here and some things that can be dealt with much better off CAF than on CAF.

I know Bishop Noonan personally. If he ever found out that one of his parishioners was taking such an issue to the general public on a forum and not to him, he would be very hurt. I knew this man as Father Noonan and as Bishop Noonan. He is very helpful to his priests. If and when there is a concern, he does not beat them over the head, nor does he ignore them either. He does his best to work with the priest.

If there is a real problem with Father X, Bishop Noonan will help Father X, not beat him up. If there is just a minor point, he will deal with it or ask someone with enough authority and knowledge to do so.

He’s gentle, has a wonderful sense of humor, is intelligent, likes people, loves his priests, and is very committed to his diocese. He has a very good diocese. He inherited the diocese that was vacated by Archbishop Wenski who is an excellent bishop.

As to the washing of the feet, there is a misunderstanding here. The General Instructions in the Roman Missal (GIRM) are just that, “general”. There are rubrics that conferences of bishops can dispense with or if your parish is run by a religious order, the religious superior can dispense with certain rubrics. They are not all equal in gravity and necessity.

For example, washing the feet of women, does not change the Mass of the Lord’s Supper. You can omit the ritual and it still will not change the mass as long as you use the propers. I’m not suggesting that you omit the ritual. I’m going somewhere here.

On the other hand, you cannot switch from unleavened bread to leavened bread unless you’re in jail or some place like that where that’s all you have. This rubric is significantly more important on the hierarchy of rules. No bishop or religious superior can change it. Changing it does have an effect on the mass. The consecration is valid, but illicit. The exception being someone like St. Maximilian Kolbe who had to consecrate leavened bread. No chance for a host in a concentration camp. His mass was perfectly legal, even without a canon.

Another example, the pastor is the person who usually washes the feet. He should be the presider at this mass. I have a very good friend who has CP. He can’t get up and down. He has no mobility in his legs and he is a pastor. The deacon does the washing. The GIRM does provide for a deacon to do it. But the bishop can.

There are things that bishops and male religious superiors are allowed to do for pastoral reasons. That’s why the instructions are called General. They are the norm, but they are not of equal gravity and some can be changed by anyone who is an Ordinary. You don’t need a conference of bishops. A diocesan bishop is an ordinary. A male religious superior who is either a general superior or a provincial superior is an ordinary. An abbot is an ordinary

The misunderstanding for the laity comes in that these rights and privileges granted to ordinaries are not found in the missals. They exist in letters, older documents or in files. If we were to put every document about the mass into the missal, it would be a three volume set. Two volumes just for all the instructions on the instructions and the possible exceptions.

The USCCB site is saying it correctly. They’re saying, “we know that the GIRM says X, but we are authorizing Y, because we believe it’s a good thing to do.” As long as there is no canonical objection, they can collectively do this or any bishop or religious superior can do it for his own men. This does not affect the validity or liceity of the mass. It’s a low priority item compared to other rubrics.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
But Brother, the problem here is that Rome later clarified and found this interpretation and situation in error. Before the clarification, one could argue that, but after, it was made very clear that it should not be done.
 
Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical Athenaeum wrote this:

"The rubrics for Holy Thursday clearly state that the priest washes the feet of men (“viri”) in order to recall Christ’s action toward his apostles. Any modification of this rite would require permission from the Holy See.

It is certainly true that in Christ there is neither male nor female and that all disciples are equal before the Lord. But this reality need not be expressed in every rite, especially one that is so tied up to the concrete historical circumstances of the Last Supper."

As to Bishop Noonan, when I happen to witness words or practices that I know to be incompatible with the teachings of the Church, I will write to him and respectfully let him know.
 
Did you look that up on the USCCB site? In short, their site is in error in this matter. Rome later clarified, and said that only men are to have their feet washed.

If you look closely at the USCCB page, they even subtly admit that they are breaking the rubrics, but don’t seem to care (“While this variation may differ from the rubric of the [Missal] which mentions only men, [we think there’s nothing wrong with washing women’s feet too, because Christ said to love each other.].”).

I don’t have the letter from Rome handy, maybe someone else can post it, but in short, it is made very clear that no matter your location, only men are to have their feet washed.

It’s really too bad that we can’t always trust the website of our own bishop’s conference.
It is common practice from what I have noted in North America. In fact most of the missions here in the Yukon would not be able to have washing of feet on Holy Thursday as not enough men are present. My own mission/parish there are only 11men including Father and 17 women (no youth but 5 young children/ infants).

As for the other items origionally mentioned I do take issue with the “dress” matter. How does one’s dress impact or ability to “be catholic” wether at mass or not. There are far more serious matters of morality and faith to be concerned with in our modern secular world than how we dress at mass.
 
It is common practice from what I have noted in North America. In fact most of the missions here in the Yukon would not be able to have washing of feet on Holy Thursday as not enough men are present. My own mission/parish there are only 11men including Father and 17 women (no youth but 5 young children/ infants).

As for the other items origionally mentioned I do take issue with the “dress” matter. How does one’s dress impact or ability to “be catholic” wether at mass or not. There are far more serious matters of morality and faith to be concerned with in our modern secular world than how we dress at mass.
  1. You don’t need 12 men. Just some men.
  2. If you don’t have any men, you can omit the rite. It’s not required. Do it correctly, or skip it, please.
  3. Common practice doesn’t equal correct practice. The missal and the vatican is quite clear on this matter.
 
The parish I grew up in back in NJ did something totally different. They washed hands, everyones hands. The priests knelt in front, the altar boys held water bowls. The priests poured water over each persons hands and dried them with a towel.

I’m sure it will be soundly criticized here, but there was something really moving about having the Priest I looked up to, my Confessor, kneeling in front of me and washing my hands. It was humbling and gave a young Catholic a solid example of Jesus’ teaching on service to others.
 
  1. You don’t need 12 men. Just some men.
  2. If you don’t have any men, you can omit the rite. It’s not required. Do it correctly, or skip it, please.
  3. Common practice doesn’t equal correct practice. The missal and the vatican is quite clear on this matter.
Every priest here (1 Diocean, 4 religous) and even the Bishop insists 12 or none at all.
 
Every priest here (1 Diocean, 4 religous) and even the Bishop insists 12 or none at all.
Oke dokey. Then in that case, the only option would be none. The rubrics are the rubrics. I was simply pointing out that the rubrics do not specify 12.
 
The parish I grew up in back in NJ did something totally different. They washed hands, everyones hands. The priests knelt in front, the altar boys held water bowls. The priests poured water over each persons hands and dried them with a towel.

I’m sure it will be soundly criticized here, but there was something really moving about having the Priest I looked up to, my Confessor, kneeling in front of me and washing my hands. It was humbling and gave a young Catholic a solid example of Jesus’ teaching on service to others.
There’s a good reason why he’d be criticized. He making something up and adding it to the Mass. The missal is quite clear, nothing should be added or removed to the Mass, and no priest has the authority to do so. The only thing that the missal specifies at that moment is the washing of an indefinite number of men’s feet. Not hands, not women.

hat’s “moving” doesn’t matter a schmidge. I find it more moving to have dancers all over the sanctuary, have the liturgy of the word after communion, and skip the penitential act. That doesn’t make it right for one second.
 
Yeah, people told me it is allowed, but man, when last year I had to witness our very masculine and attractive pastor, bend down and wash and kiss all those cute womens feet, I couldn’'t avoid but find the whole thing very, very sexy… So much so that I blushed …Well, but what do I know, I am just a sinner, with a perverted mind, trying to convert and come back to the church…I wonder how many people with lustful thoughts like me are around there in the churches though.
What I mean is: I never thought church function would become a source of temptation for me… I really hope next year they will do it the traditional way: 12 men.
😊 Man, I feel sorry for you! It’s bad enough just to see a lovely young woman dressed less than modestly at mass, but to see something like that which is orders of magnitude more likely to lead to inappropriate thoughts? I also feel sorry for the pastor, who couldn’t possibly have been unaffected himself.
As for the other items origionally mentioned I do take issue with the “dress” matter. How does one’s dress impact or ability to “be catholic” wether at mass or not. There are far more serious matters of morality and faith to be concerned with in our modern secular world than how we dress at mass.
I dunno man. Don’t you think everyone, male or female, should dress modestly? The priest in my parish thinks so.

I couldn’t help but find it difficult yesterday at mass seeing the lovely early-20s young woman with the heavenly voice singing the responsorial psalm while dressed in a black dress that showed bare shoulders and bare sections of the back. It made it worse that she was in the choir, which is seated near the front of the church on the side I was at – meaning several rows in front of me. Other times I’ve had a woman come and sit directly in front of me in a short skirt and shoes that accentuated her legs and bum.

I’d prefer not to be tempted into mortal sin during mass. It’s hard enough outside of church!
 
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