"Conservative" versus "Good" Catholic

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Emeraldlady

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When I was growing up Catholic there were really only two distinctions made regarding what type of Catholic one was. Either “good” which meant practicing faithfully, obedient to Church teaching and submission to the Pope. Or their was ‘lapsed’ Catholics. There really was no distinction down political lines at all of the nature of conservative or liberal. How did this very politicised version of Catholicism come about and should we fight urgently to dis-identify with it in every way?
 
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We definitely should fight against this politicization of the faith.

The faith is timeless and for all the peoples of the world.

Too many times discussions pertaining to the faith on this forum gets conflated with politics and not just any politics but American politics.

I can understand why forum members who are not Americans can get put off by this conflation.
 
Emeraldlady said:
should we fight urgently to dis-identify with it in every way?
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One should not identify with any sub-sects and cultures in Catholicism. You are faithful or not, people in these groups elevate their opinions and methods of interpreting Church teaching and events over God.
 
As a non Christian, I know too many good faithful Catholics that I wouldn’t consider overly conservative. Some are even pretty liberal but not on all issues. From the outside looking in, to say one has to be conservative to be good is ridiculous!
 
Personally, as an American Catholic; I think everything is too politicized. Moral and social policies that should be deliberated solely on their pros and cons for the common good of all has become badges and slogans that place you on either end of a ideological spectrum. As if your political views and affiliations define who you are and where you are in society.

I think, as Catholics; we should focus on being Catholics faithful to God and living out our Baptismal promises. Rather than declaring for either Democrat or Republican.

Our faith should inform our politics.

The Dems are, it seems to me; largely leftists with a socialistic, atheistic, morally relativistic agenda in which everything is a choice in a world without any objective moral reality.

The Republicans, in my mind; are largely the party of old school free market believers and social conservatives taken over by the neocons.

Both major parties are too beholden to their campaign donors among the super rich.

Personally, I consider myself a compassionate conservative.

Strong traditional moral values with Catholic social teaching.
 
Emeraldlady said:
How did this very politicised version of Catholicism come about and should we fight urgently to dis-identify with it in every way?
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It didn’t. It only exists in certain places like this forum and various online blogs, which do not reflect the vast majority of Catholics out there, any more than the people posting on the America Magazine Facebook reflect the vast majority of Catholics out there.

90 percent of the Catholics in the world are not even aware of all this gunk, they are just living their lives. Sometimes I think they’re better off for not having to hear/ read about it.
 
What politics?

Conservative in the Catholic sense has nothing to do with politics. I believe it has more to do with keeping traditions and doctrines that have been taught for 2000 years (conserve), versus those who want to progress to something “better.”
This is a real thing, and not just limited to CAF or blogs, etc.

There is an analogy to politics, but it’s not a one-to-one mapping to e.g. political parties.
 
ricmat said:
There is an analogy to politics, but it’s not a one-to-one mapping to e.g. political parties.
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I have understood that there are three kinds of Catholics. That is, there is a difference between a Conservative and a Traditionalist, because one can be morally and politically Conservative without being Traditional. Here’s an article that explains it in enough detail:

OPERATIVE POINTS OF VIEW, Father Chad Ripperger, F.S.S.P.

The third kind is then the Liberal.
 
ricmat said:
What politics?

Conservative in the Catholic sense has nothing to do with politics. I believe it has more to do with keeping traditions and doctrines that have been taught for 2000 years (conserve), versus those who want to progress to something “better.”
This is a real thing, and not just limited to CAF or blogs, etc.

There is an analogy to politics, but it’s not a one-to-one mapping to e.g. political parties.
Click to expand...
I prefer the term faithful over conservative for any Catholic who keeps tradition and doctrines taught by the Church.

I despise the words conservative and liberal as they have acquired political nuances that while obvious to some Americans aren’t quite obvious to everyone else.

It does not make good discussions when these words are used since it presupposes that every participant in a discussion has a common understanding of these words and all their nuances.

This could lead to misunderstanding and people talking past each other.
 
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Thinkcat said:
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ricmat:
There is an analogy to politics, but it’s not a one-to-one mapping to e.g. political parties.
Click to expand...
I have understood that there are three kinds of Catholics. That is, there is a difference between a Conservative and a Traditionalist, because one can be morally and politically Conservative without being Traditional. Here’s an article that explains it in enough detail:

OPERATIVE POINTS OF VIEW, Father Chad Ripperger, F.S.S.P.

The third kind is then the Liberal.
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I just said this in another thread recently but in reality there are more “kinds” than this. For one thing, most Catholic attend the OF and don’t identify as “conservative,” “traditional,” or “progressive.” They just show up on Sundays and receive the sacraments. I’d guess that’s about 90% of American Catholics.
 
gracepoole said:
For one thing, most Catholic attend the OF and don’t identify as “conservative,” “traditional,” or “progressive.”
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If a fish floats in a stream, it does not have to explicitly “identify” with doing so to do so. But in order to swim somewhere it must first make a decision. The Progressive or the Liberal is the default position.
 
Thinkcat said:
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gracepoole:
For one thing, most Catholic attend the OF and don’t identify as “conservative,” “traditional,” or “progressive.”
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If a fish floats in a stream, it does not have to explicitly “identify” with doing so to do so. But in order to swim somewhere it must first make a decision. The Progressive or the Liberal is the default position.
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I’m honestly not sure I understand your comment. But I’ve seen no evidence to suggest that progressive “is the default position.”
 
90 percent is a pretty optimistic estimate, I’m afraid, unless you count those who wish they could be unaware of it.
 
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Thinkcat said:
If a fish floats in a stream, it does not have to explicitly “identify” with doing so to do so. But in order to swim somewhere it must first make a decision. The Progressive or the Liberal is the default position.
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That depends heavily on where you live. I live in a Red state, so progressive/liberal isn’t the default.
 
I don’t think that Catholicism is especially politicized. But in today’s age, people wrongly treat their politics more like a religion, so it can bleed over. However, I’ve always taken the phrase conservative Catholic to mean “one who follows the teachings of the church.”
 
Emeraldlady said:
How did this very politicised version of Catholicism come about and should we fight urgently to dis-identify with it in every way?
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In the US, a person’s political ideology would be of more social importance than their religious ideology. Many people I know have disengaged from organized religion. But they’ve continued engaging in social justice causes, whatever the cause might be, they choose what they want to support. In short, many people have swapped religion for politics, or social justice causes.

It would only seem natural in such an environment that those who have stuck with religion have started to politicize the different practices within their religion. IMO, Pope Benedict inadvertently made that politicization even worse. And now, Pope Francis is like nails on a chalkboard to all the people who loved what Pope Benedict did. :roll_eyes:
Gingersnaps4 said:
I don’t think that Catholicism is especially politicized. But in today’s age, people wrongly treat their politics more like a religion, so it can bleed over.
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I agree
 
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PetraG said:
90 percent is a pretty optimistic estimate, I’m afraid, unless you count those who wish they could be unaware of it.
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I don’t think so. My mom is incredibly involved in her parish – she serves it in at least 3 different roles and it’s the diocese’s cathedral, so she regularly engages with the bishop. She participates in all of the parish’s talks, book discussions, Bible studies, etc. And she had no clue what pachamama was until I told her. She didn’t even know about the Amazon Synod – she actually thought I was talking about Amazon.com. 😂
 
I wasn’t even counting that whole mess.

Yes, I think you’re right that the vast majority of Catholics have never heard of that matter.
 
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