Conservativism = Racism . . . why?

[Marie77]

Liberal talk show hosts, political candidates, talking head experts on news shows.

Of course, because they want to control how you vote.
So they control what and how they report the news.

There are many false statement being posted. The majority of Conservatives (Tea Party Supporters) are not wealthy.
Most believe in God’s Commandment - thou shall not covet thy neighbor’s goods; thou shall not steal. (Forced redistribution of wealth is stealing. Jesus never taught this.)

This is their voted upon platform which has nothing to do with skin color as you can see, and was voted upon in 2010
.
"(1) Protect the Constitution: Require each bill to identify the specific provision of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does (82.03 percent).

"(2) Reject Cap & Trade: Stop costly new regulations that would increase unemployment, raise consumers prices, and weaken the nation’s global competitiveness with virtually no impact on global temperatures (72.20 percent).

"(3) Demand a Balanced Budget: Begin the Constitutional amendment process to require a balanced budget with a two-thirds majority needed for any tax hike. (69.69 percent)

"(4) Enact Fundamental Tax Reform: Adopt a simple and fair single-rate tax system by scrapping the internal revenue code and replacing it with one that is no longer than 4,543 words – the length of the original Constitution. (64.90 percent).

"(5) Restore Fiscal Responsibility & Constitutionally Limited Government in Washington: Create a Blue Ribbon taskforce that engages in a complete audit of federal agencies and programs, assessing their Constitutionality, and identifying duplication, waste, ineffectiveness, and agencies and programs better left for the states or local authorities, or ripe for wholesale reform or elimination due to our efforts to restore limited government consistent with the U.S. Constitution’s meaning. (63.37 percent)

"(6) End Runaway Government Spending: Impose a statutory cap limiting the annual growth in total federal spending to the sum of the inflation rate plus the percentage of population growth. (56.57 percent).

"(7) Defund, Repeal & Replace Government-run Health Care: Defund, repeal and replace the recently passed government-run health care with a system that actually makes health care and insurance more affordable by enabling a competitive, open, and transparent free-market health care and health insurance system that isn’t restricted by state boundaries. (56.39 percent).

"(8) Pass an ‘All-of-the-Above’ Energy Policy: Authorize the exploration of proven energy reserves to reduce our dependence on foreign energy sources from unstable countries and reduce regulatory barriers to all other forms of energy creation, lowering prices and creating competition and jobs. (55.51 percent).

"(9) Stop the Pork: Place a moratorium on all earmarks until the budget is balanced, and then require a 2/3 majority to pass any earmark. (55.47 percent).

“(10) Stop the Tax Hikes: Permanently repeal all tax hikes, including those to the income, capital gains and death taxes, currently scheduled to begin in 2011. (53.38 percent).”

 

[St_Francis]

I would suggest a couple of issues

1. Since conservatives want to preserve wealth and minorities were historically discriminated against which prevented wealth in minority communities the question becomes do conservatives desire to maintain a wealth injustice?

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Your comment is assuming that conservatives are racist, a proposition for which you have offered no proof.

1. Hypocrisy: Current conservatives are walking models of hypocrisy which creates a credibility issue. ( before you ask please state the subject which is void of open hypocrisy within conservative leadership)

Maintaining a high standard of behavior is very difficult for anyone. Conservatives at least advocate living up to high standards and attempting to do so, albeit like everyone, failing at times.

The reason liberals are able to label conservatives as hypocritical is that liberals don’t really advocate any standards, and when liberals violate what few standards they have, they are let off the hook.

1. Capitalism conflicts with merit, one benefits the earner while the other benefits the owner.

Merit benefits the owner only because of liberal policies.

1. Non-conservative movements have greatly improved the USA

FYI – I do not wish to do any name calling now or later, debate the meaning of the word liberal or conservative, this is simply an answer to the OP

 

[PrayHarder]

hm… I don’t mean to put you on the spot, but can you think of a particular instance? I think it would help avoid debating straw men if we had some specifics.

Here’s an example from a recent debate:
nation.foxnews.com/2012-presidential-race/2012/01/16/gingrich-and-juan-williams-food-stamp-exchange-brings-debate-crowd-its-feet

Gingrich is trying to talk about welfare, jobs, work ethic, etc. Looking at the transcript, Gingrich’s answers are race neutral. His statements apply to whites, blacks, hispanics, etc. Juan Williams, the moderator, tries to frame the discussion to be strictly about race.

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

hm… I don’t mean to put you on the spot, but can you think of a particular instance? I think it would help avoid debating straw men if we had some specifics.

I hear it constantly when I’m driving and on TV. Haven’t bothered to document it.

Just google “conservativism equals racism.” You’ll get plenty of things like the following. Lot’s of people are talking about it. It’s been part of the conversation for a long time.

npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130216253

usconservatives.about.com/od/conservativemyths/f/Conservs_Racism.htm

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/10/AR2010091002679.html

I gather you disagree that the set of conservative principles is racist or . . . you disagree with them on other grounds realizing that tactically calling them “racist” won’t work with many people here or . . .

 

[andrewstx]

Question to 2: Weren’t the Democrats considered more socially liberal back then?

At the time the South was mostly conservative dixiecrats who opposed the CRA. When the CRA passed they became mostly republicans without changing much at at all. The blacks remained democrats while the whites became republicans.

You can see that in election returns, black districts back democrats and whites republicans.

 

[andrewstx]

I do not know the national situation intimatley, but I do know that in Texas where I live the nearly unanamously conservative legislature has gerrymandered the voting districts to make hispanics powerless.

The district maps have already been rejected by the courts thus delaying the primaries to the point the nominee will have been decided before we even have a chance to vote.

I am a republican/independent, but thanks tea partiers!

 

[Swiss_Guy]

At the time the South was mostly conservative dixiecrats who opposed the CRA. When the CRA passed they became mostly republicans without changing much at at all. The blacks remained democrats while the whites became republicans.

You can see that in election returns, black districts back democrats and whites republicans.

It was a typo. I meant Republicans. But I thought African Americans were Republican and became Democrat, because Republicans were the ones who stood for the CRA. At least I thought they were. And considering the fact that Catholics also dominated the Democratic party back then in the North, it would make sense that it would be relatively socially conservative there as well (not for the CRA, but for abortion and stuff like that).

 

[Abu]

Swiss Guy #8
why would you want a safety net that only temporarily helps people? I’m not saying I’m for government welfare, but shouldn’t the Church be the real safety net 24/7/365?

You are right, not the Welfare State, and everyone needs to be encouraged to improve themselves and work diligently as Bl John Paul II clarifies in *Centesimus Annus *#48: “Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions,….supplementary interventions, which are justified by urgent reasons touching the common good, must be as brief as possible, so as to avoid removing permanently from society and business systems the functions which are properly theirs, and so as to avoid enlarging excessively the sphere of State intervention to the detriment of both economic and civil freedom.”

Texas Roofer #15
Capitalism conflicts with merit, one benefits the earner while the other benefits the owner.

False. Free enterprise is based on merit. See Fr of Jazz below.

Fr of Jazz #17
The wierd thing is that what seems to elude Catholic lefties in the equality of outcome versus equality of opportunity debate is that greater equality is the inevitable end result of the application of the actual social teaching of the Church.

Yet this teaching includes:
the regulated but free market;
private ownership of property and the means of production;
presumption of independent individual or group initiative;
competition;
bridled, regulated capitalism;
condemns collectivism and rejects the welfare state;
and teaches the creation of opportunity;
importance of education;
opening markets for broader access;
establishment of the rule of law and democratic structures where lacking;
sharing scientific, medical, technical, and business know how;
cutting back on expensive aid bureaucracies for poor countries;
opposition to religious fundamentalism

Great Summary.

 

[Dale_M]

I hear it constantly when I’m driving and on TV. Haven’t bothered to document it.

Just google “conservativism equals racism.” You’ll get plenty of things like the following. Lot’s of people are talking about it. It’s been part of the conversation for a long time.

npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130216253

usconservatives.about.com/od/conservativemyths/f/Conservs_Racism.htm

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/10/AR2010091002679.html

Thank you for those links, they helped me understand where you are coming from. However, they didn’t really address my central concern: is anyone actually saying that conservatism is inherently racist? I ask that question because it is the assumption behind this thread.

I don’t think your links supported that assumption. Rather, the third article indicated some people (only one person was specifically mentioned, a biographer I’ve never heard of) see racial overtones in the the rhetoric used to support certain positions held by certain politicians (e.g. talking about “welfare queens”.) I think there is reason to be suspicious of the rhetoric which has been used. But the rhetoric of individual politicians does not translate into a wholesale condemnation of conservatism in general.

That third article also mentioned a journalist who was cited for advocating a charge of racism against a conservative target, not because it was it was true or important but because it would divert political heat from Barak Obama regarding Jeremiah Wright. I think that was a very disturbing revelation, and indicates a cynical and unprincipled individual who wanted to (and may) misuse his power. But it doesn’t support the contention that liberals think that conservatism = racism.

I dunno… aside from those two points, the main thing I gathered from those articles is that some conservatives think that liberals think that conservatives are often racist. But I didn’t see any liberal individual claim (let alone the idea that most liberals think that) conservatism is inherently racist.

I gather you disagree that the set of conservative principles is racist or . . . you disagree with them on other grounds realizing that tactically calling them “racist” won’t work with many people here or . . .

I don’t think that conservatism is inherently racist. I do think that some conservative politicians have used rhetoric which carries a racial tinge.

 

[Marie77]

Usually, the LIBERALS or lefties are those who support ABORTION.

Abortion kills a disproportionate number of Blacks, and this was intended by Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger through eugenics.

eu·gen·ics:
the study of or belief in the possibility of improving the qualities of the human species or a human population, especially by such means as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic defects or presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits.

Dr. Alveda King talks about this in her book.
priestsforlife.org/staff/alvedaking.htm

Therefore, it is probably more accurate to state that LIBERALS are RACIST through encouraging the murder of black and minority babies. And by having their politicians support this murder with tax dollars.

 

[hannajomar]

I don’t think that conservatism is inherently racist. I do think that some conservative politicians have used rhetoric which carries a racial tinge.

Of course there are racist conservatives. Racists are everywhere. The question is, are there more racist conservatives than than there are racist liberals?

 

[maximus]

I am a minority, who leans heavily conservative and claims two heritages Dominican and Puerto Rican. Our countries were proving grounds for the pill where people were used as guineas pigs. People who favor population control eventually practice eugenics, which is the reducing the undesirables. To achieve these goals you have to establish dependencies so people exchange fertility for handouts. The inner cities had great Catholic schools, which enabled opportunities and expected achievements regardless of who you were. Catholic schools have been ravaged. To keep these communities out of the mainstream they have encouraged them not to integrate and learn the language. So these racist policies come from the left and have done incredible damages to our communities.
I lived in the Caribbean where people of different races have one culture, it’s not perfect but it is one culture pretty much.

When you add illegal immigration, well the illegals from Latin countries can integrate easily into these communities and make a living. Illegal immigration draws the ire of conservatism because there is a call to respect the countries law and justice must be extracted; sadly, some take this too far and can express itself in the form of racism. Add the factors of not learning the language and not integrating into the culture then this further alienates these communities from conservative values. Sadly, here in the US there is no one culture to integrate too because it has been eroded greatly away from Christian principles.

I have observed this here with a sort of an insider/outsider perspective. I believe conservative values will work to help these communities in the long painful run as long as certain bullies are kept at bay. Liberal principles will just continue to be the demise of the minority communities.

God Bless

 

[Fitz]

Liberal principles will just continue to be the demise of the minority communities.

I agree, especially when you look at what abortion and welfare has done to minority communities.

 

[Fitz]

Of course there are racist conservatives. Racists are everywhere. The question is, are there more racist conservatives than than there are racist liberals?

I really don’t think there will ever be an answer to this question. Liberals find almost everything that conservatives do to be racist. As a conservative I find liberal policies to have racist consequences, intended or otherwise.

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

Thank you for those links, they helped me understand where you are coming from. However, they didn’t really address my central concern: is anyone actually saying that conservatism is inherently racist? I ask that question because it is the assumption behind this thread.

I don’t think your links supported that assumption. Rather, the third article indicated some people (only one person was specifically mentioned, a biographer I’ve never heard of) see racial overtones in the the rhetoric used to support certain positions held by certain politicians (e.g. talking about “welfare queens”.) I think there is reason to be suspicious of the rhetoric which has been used. But the rhetoric of individual politicians does not translate into a wholesale condemnation of conservatism in general.

That third article also mentioned a journalist who was cited for advocating a charge of racism against a conservative target, not because it was it was true or important but because it would divert political heat from Barak Obama regarding Jeremiah Wright. I think that was a very disturbing revelation, and indicates a cynical and unprincipled individual who wanted to (and may) misuse his power. But it doesn’t support the contention that liberals think that conservatism = racism.

I dunno… aside from those two points, the main thing I gathered from those articles is that some conservatives think that liberals think that conservatives are often racist. But I didn’t see any liberal individual claim (let alone the idea that most liberals think that) conservatism is inherently racist.

Yeah, as I said, just google it to get a feel for the accusations. Conservatives think they are viewed as racist because that is the constant accusation. Listen to new/talk shows. Although some I have heard make the general statement that conservative principles/policies are racist, most make that charge on a case by case basis. See (1)-(4) below. But first some authors reporting their own experience.

A book of interest here is by Renford Reese, American Paradox: Young Black Men. Carolina Academic Press, 2004. As a black man having experienced real racism, he resents people playing the race card in virtually every disagreement. He has even experienced the accusation himself re his ideas when he argues, as he does in his book, that the gangsta-thug persona/identity adopted by many young blacks is self-defeating and self-destructive for black men and degrading to black women.

Elijah Saunders, MD, is the head of the division of Hypertension at the University of Maryland School of Medicine. He notes that recent research has found that blacks are more susceptible to high blood pressure than whites and certain blood pressure medications that work well on whites do not work well on blacks. Yet research into these differences is often frowned upon as being latently racist and in some quarters is discouraged. He writes in an op-ed piece, “In this age of ‘political correctness,’ it’s not even respectable to suggest that there are differences in the way blacks and whites respond to dietary salt or certain drugs.” Saunders goes on to stress that these differences are facts and we ignore them at our peril. His conclusion: “It is time to move forward, to perform and participate in the research that can help save black lives.” (Elijah Saunders, “When Political Correctness Hampers Medicine,” Erie Morning News. Tuesday, August 19, 1997: 7A.)

Richard Bernstein, a liberal foreign and national correspondent for the New York Times, sums it up well in a recent book: “My own feeling is that the reckless, heedless, and glib use of certain words, ‘racism’ above all, but ‘sexism’ and ‘homophobia’ closely following, is a major flaw in standard multicultural discourse. It is one of the reasons there is so much more striking of poses than honestly discussing and grappling with problems in the United States of America today. The easy multicultural distribution of vile accusations is the main reason we don’t talk to one another as much as we hurl insults.” (Richard Bernstein, Dictatorship of Virtue. NY: Vintage Press, 1995, p. 186)

Some examples in the conversation (alluded to in the second article):

(1) If one argues that we should remain a merit-based society not move toward being an entitlement-based society, that view is called a racist. (from personal experience in conversations and on talk shows)

(2) If a conservative argues: --that quotas and preferences for women and minorities is a bad idea because it is competence not color or gender should be the qualification for hiring; --that if a segment of our society is not competitive when entering the work, the fix the problem by improving education often starting with family values, those ideas are called a racist. (ditto)

(3) If one comments that many problems in the black community would be overcome if the 70% illigitimacy rate and absent fathers were decreased, you’re called a racist. (ditto)

(4) If one argues that students who do not speak (standard) English should learn to in order to gain the competencises and skills necessary to move up the economic ladder, you are called a racist. (ditto)

“Welfare queens”? More whites are on welfare than blacks and more white women exploit the system then blacks. How can that expression—derogatory though it is—be racist? Free money from the government corrupts all races.

I don’t think that conservatism is inherently racist.

I’m glad to hear it.

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

I am a minority, who leans heavily conservative and claims two heritages Dominican and Puerto Rican. Our countries were proving grounds for the pill where people were used as guineas pigs. People who favor population control eventually practice eugenics, which is the reducing the undesirables. To achieve these goals you have to establish dependencies so people exchange fertility for handouts. The inner cities had great Catholic schools, which enabled opportunities and expected achievements regardless of who you were. Catholic schools have been ravaged. To keep these communities out of the mainstream they have encouraged them not to integrate and learn the language. So these racist policies come from the left and have done incredible damages to our communities.
I lived in the Caribbean where people of different races have one culture, it’s not perfect but it is one culture pretty much.

When you add illegal immigration, well the illegals from Latin countries can integrate easily into these communities and make a living. Illegal immigration draws the ire of conservatism because there is a call to respect the countries law and justice must be extracted; sadly, some take this too far and can express itself in the form of racism. Add the factors of not learning the language and not integrating into the culture then this further alienates these communities from conservative values. Sadly, here in the US there is no one culture to integrate too because it has been eroded greatly away from Christian principles.

I have observed this here with a sort of an insider/outsider perspective. I believe conservative values will work to help these communities in the long painful run as long as certain bullies are kept at bay. Liberal principles will just continue to be the demise of the minority communities.

God Bless

In line with your point, you may find the following quote instructive. I just quoted from the same book elsewhere.

“One of my own underlying theses is that, like it or not, there are certain cultural norms, certain things to know and do, a mastery of a certain discourse, that is most likely to get people on the great engine of upward mobility in the United States. . . .The plain and inescapable fact is that the derived Western European culture of American life produced the highest degree of prosperity in the conditions of greatest freedom ever known on planet Earth. The rich and advantaged of our society will survive even if they are taught to believe something different. But to teach the poor and disadvantaged that they can ignore the standards and modes of behavior that have always made for success in American life is more than mere silliness. It is a lie.”
[Richard Bernstein, *Dictatorship of Virtue. NY: Vintage Press, 1995, pp. 10, 11]

 

[Dale_M]

“Welfare queens”? More whites are on welfare than blacks and more white women exploit the system then blacks. How can that expression—derogatory though it is—be racist?

Sometimes race is the subtext which the speaker doesn’t overly mention but the audience makes the connection. Its rare for politicians to be overt, but sometimes they are. For example, Rick Santorum speaking in Iowa shortly before the caucus:

Answering a question about foreign influence on the U.S. economy, the former Pennsylvania senator went on to discuss the American entitlement system - which he argued is being used to politically exploit its beneficiaries.

“It just keeps expanding - I was in Indianola a few months ago and I was talking to someone who works in the department of public welfare here, and she told me that the state of Iowa is going to get fined if they don’t sign up more people under the Medicaid program,” Santorum said. “They’re just pushing harder and harder to get more and more of you dependent upon them so they can get your vote. That’s what the bottom line is.”

He added: “I don’t want to make black people’s lives better by giving them somebody else’s money; I want to give them the opportunity to go out and earn the money.”

“Right,” responded one audience member, as another woman can be seen nodding.

cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57350990-503544/santorum-targets-blacks-in-entitlement-reform/

This statement was made despite the small percentage of Iowans who are black. And despite Iowa’s Medicaid beneficiaries being overwhelmingly white.

But such overt statements are rarely made, and when they are, the politician apologizes after the news media exposes it.

 

[maximus]

"One of my own underlying theses is that, like it or not, there are certain cultural norms, certain things to know and do, a mastery of a certain discourse, that is most likely to get people on the great engine of upward mobility in the United States. . . . "
[Richard Bernstein, *Dictatorship of Virtue

. NY: Vintage Press, 1995, pp. 10, 11]

Good quote, sounds like an interesting book that I should put in my reading queue. To me an important concept is that mastery of the language leads to mastery of the law and he who is master of the law has real power. Communities that do not learn the language or settle for a bastardized dumbed down form of it will not have any real political power or have little chances of advancement in American society. My English is far from perfect, but good enough to get me through as a MSEE.

God Bless,

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

Good quote, sounds like an interesting book that I should put in my reading queue. To me an important concept is that mastery of the language leads to mastery of the law and he who is master of the law has real power. Communities that do not learn the language or settle for a bastardized dumbed down form of it will not have any real political power or have little chances of advancement in American society. My English is far from perfect, but good enough to get me through as a MSEE.

God Bless,

Thanks. MSEE–go you!

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

Sometimes race is the subtext which the speaker doesn’t overly mention but the audience makes the connection. Its rare for politicians to be overt, but sometimes they are.

There can be impact versus intent. I agree. To that extent the audience can make a connection–true or not.

But, on the other hand, an environment has also been created where some minorities have been schooled to posture themselves as victims to get more power, money, and people who look like them in office. Victimhood = power and money. Cry “racism” and painful truths are shut up and you get free money from the government. Playing the race card is still very effective.

So if I argue that the usual line that minorities do poorly on SAT tests is not completely true–Asians do better than the majority–and that the black community needs to develop a greater commitment to academics not alter the tests, that would be branded a racist idea.

If I as a white man wanted to launch a program to encourage a commitment to learning in the black community I would most certainly have to stress that I am not racist.

Then there’s the you-say-you’re-not-racist-but-I-know-you-are argument. That pretense at mind reading is pure verbal bullying. My usual response is “You say that, but I know you really don’t believe it.”