Considering converting to the Anglican Church

[Barbkw]

Are you considering converting to the Episcopal Church or the Anglican Church?

There are multiple ordained female ministers in the Episcopal Church. And noncelibate homosexual female ministers.

One lesbian minister, Dean of the Episcopal Divinity School in Cambridge, Massacusetts has said that “abortion is a blessing” and that “abortionists are doing holy work.”

lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/1990/40/9040205

Abortion is a blessing and our work is not done. Abortion is a blessing and our work is not done.

I want to thank all of you who protect this blessing – who do this work every day: the health care providers, doctors, nurses, technicians, receptionists, who put your lives on the line to care for others (you are heroes — in my eyes, you are saints); the escorts and the activists; the lobbyists and the clinic defenders; all of you. You’re engaged in holy work.

Rev Katherine Hancock Ragsdale

 

[CountrySteve]

There are several misconceptions in your posting, things that you either do not know, or that you choose to ignore.

1. The Roman Catholic Church has thousands of married Priests. Most are in the various “Eastern Rites”, but certainly not all of them.
2. The church does not teach that homosexuality is a sin. BUT, it does teach that ALL sex outside of marriage is a sin, whether it be homosexual or heterosexual. Just as a Priest that is having affairs with women would face possible expulsion from the active Priesthood, so would a homosexual Priest that is having affairs with men. The call is to CELIBACY, and that has absolutely nothing to do with ones sexual orientation.

I personally happen to know several homosexual Priests, and they are very effective at their jobs. They struggle with Celibacy, as all Priests do, but they maintain with the grace of God.

In both the Old and the New Testament, homosexuality is specifically condemned. If a church chooses to “ordain” a homosexual that is actively involved in a relationship, by definition that church is NOT following the teachings of the Bible.

It is interesting that you are feeling drawn to the Anglican Church, at a time when thousands of Anglicans world wide are leaving their church and are becoming Roman Catholics. They are leaving their church, one that has been theirs for generations, over the very issues that you feel are calling you to it.

I understand the desire to become a Priest. I too felt a strong call to the Priesthood, and i do believe that I would have been a good one. BUT, in my case, I could not accept the fact that all too many men that took a vow of poverty, lived like anything BUT a poor person. I brought this up, repeatedly in my chapter meetings, until I was finally asked to leave as “it is apparent that you do not fit in with our Charism”.

The Church asks you to discern what your true vocation is. I would strongly recommend that you consider a retreat, and discuss your concerns with the retreat master. If there is a Trappist Monastery near you, they offer retreats of various lengths, and they will NOT pressure you in any manner. But, they are great at helping people figure out what direction is correct for them.

the RCC teaches Homosexuality is a sin but doesn’t condemn them for we are supposed to love the sinner but not the sin

 

[nhylan]

Are you considering converting to the Episcopal Church or the Anglican Church?

There are multiple ordained female ministers in the Episcopal Church. And noncelibate homosexual female ministers.

One lesbian minister, Dean of the Episcopal Divinity School in Cambridge, Massacusetts has said that “abortion is a blessing” and that “abortionists are doing holy work.”

lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/1990/40/9040205

wow… talk about uncharitable. The point your trying to make is that if that’'s how one priest feels then that must be how everyone is in the Episcopal Church… perhaps you should tone down your rhetoric. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

And by the way, they are ordained priests, not ministers.

 

[_L]

Leastofthese:

My prayers go out to you during your time of uncertainty, clearly you have a very reflective nature on what it is you believe and are earnestly trying to follow your conscience in regards to what to believe.

Regarding Homosexuality it should be noted that the Church in no way condemns anyone for merely being attracted to the same sex. it is precisely the actions of lust and sexual relations which manifest homosexuality as sin which is similar to the Church’s stance on relations between heterosexuals where illicit sex which is outside marriage can never be treated as moral and neither can lustful thoughts be accepted by homosexuals or heterosexuals since lust in the heart is condemned throughout scripture and by Jesus Himself. We hold to the belief that God’s plan for marriage has been fully revealed by Christ where we believe that marriage is between one man, and one woman, and since moral sexual relations can only occur within marriage homosexual sex cannot be sanctioned, nor can polygamy be accepted any longer, which God allowed for a time due to the hardness of the hearts of His people until the fullness of His plan for marriage was revealed to us by Christ and properly instituted by His Church.

In regards to priestly celibacy in the Latin rite: I am sure you know that priestly celibacy is not a teaching of the Church, but rather a discipline, meaning that it is simply a regulation enacted by the Church for the benefit of the administration and cohesiveness of the Church. Granted there may be a time when priestly celibacy will be removed; perhaps due to an extreme shortage of priests where the Church feels it is necessary to open the door for a new group of men who would otherwise not enter the priesthood due to a desire to marry and have a family.

But there are benefits to priestly celibacy which people fail to see in my opinion. Some of those include the fact that balancing the role of father in the family and father in the church is not easy. Being a priest is not a 9-5 job 5 days a week, a priest must always be on call for his flock 24/7/365. Most men find the job of being a father of children hard enough without have to attend to the needs of those in his Church. And for parishes that struggle financially, it may be extreme difficult for a married priest to support his family solely on the donations of the parishioners even if his wife is working. not only this but priests often get transferred after a period of time based on where priests are needed in the Church, and this too can prove to be a hard obstacle for priests who have families firmly planted where they live. Just some things to think about.

In regards to Papal Infallibility we could discuss this for hours and still not reach a conclusion; however, I urge to consider the possible implications if the idea behind papal infallibility was not the case. What if the Church could never know for certain what is True and what is not? What if the Church became bereft of the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and fell into error? What if the Church was no more of a reliable guide to the Truth than anyone on the street? These are the implications that prove to be very real without that doctrine of papal infallibility. It should be noted that Papal Infallibility is not some special super power that is given to the Pope for his own benefit, but rather a protection of the Church by the Holy Spirit to ensure the steward of the Bride of Christ never misleads Christ’s flock into falsehood.

Lastly leastofthese. I strongly urge you to consider the Anglican Church and its history, consider the current state of affairs where thousands of Anglicans are leaving in droves and returning to the Catholic Church. Many brave men and women stood up to Henry the VIII and his agenda, and paid for it with their lives among them Sir Thomas More a once dear friend of Henry VIII who following his conscience remained loyal to the Church and was consequently martyred for the faith and made a saint. The gradual return of Anglicans to the Catholic Church is ensuring the sacrifice of men like Thomas More have not been in vain. Is this a personal attack and slur on Anglicans? By no means; they are closer to us Catholics than virtually every other Christian sect and this precisely makes the call for reunion all the more necessary and important.

May God Bless you, you are in my prayers

-Matthew

 

[Barbkw]

wow… talk about uncharitable. The point your trying to make is that if that’'s how one priest feels then that must be how everyone is in the Episcopal Church… perhaps you should tone down your rhetoric. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

And by the way, they are ordained priests, not ministers.

What I posted is true. You may not like that about the Episcopal Church, but my post is in no way uncharitable.

 

[1ke]

I can’t believe that just because he is a homosexual that he is going to hell.

The Church does not teach this.

My other big problem is quite personal. The priesthood. I have felt a call to the priesthood for a couple of years now, but I also feel called to married life. I have prayed and prayed to God to give me clarity and to show me which vocation is my true calling. But in the end I keep feeling that I am called to both. I do know that some of the Eastern-rites in the Church allow for priests to marry, but this must be before ordination and if their spouse dies they cannot remarry.

Perhaps you are called to the diaconate.

 

[nhylan]

What I posted is true. You may not like that about the Episcopal Church, but my post is in no way uncharitable.

yes it is true, but by posting that you insinuated that that priests opinions are the norm in Episcopal Church. If that’s not the case then you were just saying it to cause scandal. The fact that she said that no more invalidates the good priests in the Episcopal Church than the fact that there was a well publicized pedophilia scandal in the Roman Catholic Church invalidates the work they do.

 

[Barbkw]

yes it is true, but by posting that you insinuated that that priests opinions are the norm in Episcopal Church. If that’s not the case then you were just saying it to cause scandal. The fact that she said that no more invalidates the good priests in the Episcopal Church than the fact that there was a well publicized pedophilia scandal in the Roman Catholic Church invalidates the work they do.

Pedophilia is not an accepted practice in the Catholic Church.

Noncelibate homosexual ordained ministers are acceptable in the Episcopal Church.

Homosexual “marriages” are being “blessed” in the Episcopal Church.

And abortion is being taught that it is a “blessing” by this Dean of the Episcopal Divinity School. She is also a lesbian.

 

[nhylan]

Pedophilia is not an accepted practice in the Catholic Church.

And teaching that Abortion is a blessing is not an accepted practice in the Episcopal Church. this is my point. This isn’t normal behavior, its one person.

 

[Esdra]

To the OP:

I can read in your post that you are really struggeling with this…
But after reading it I got the impression that you would make a good Old Catholic in communion with the Utrecht See. (I know that there are not many parishes of them in the US. However, the PNCC is, although their doctrine is slightly different over some issues.) Have a look at the links above and think about it if that was an option for you.
Otherwise another option’d be Orthodoxy. Have you studied also that?

Your post, however, also sounds for me like High Church Anglicanism…

God bless you,
you are in my prayers,

 

[TevereNauta]

Pedophilia is not an accepted practice in the Catholic Church.

Noncelibate homosexual ordained ministers are acceptable in the Episcopal Church.

Homosexual “marriages” are being “blessed” in the Episcopal Church.

And abortion is being taught that it is a “blessing” by this Dean of the Episcopal Divinity School. She is also a lesbian.

Amen Barbkw!

Trying to find consensus amongst Anglicans/Episcopals may be like (as others have quipped) trying to herd cats, but the fact of the matter is there is some serious un-Christian–by denotation–behavior in that particular herd.

 

[Barbkw]

And teaching that Abortion is a blessing is not an accepted practice in the Episcopal Church. this is my point. This isn’t normal behavior, its one person.

Then why hasn’t the Episcopal Church censoring her, or removed her from her position?

She’s the Dean of the Episcopal Divinity School in Mass.

On October 23, 2009, Katherine Hancock Ragsdale was installed as Episcopal Divinity School’s sixth president and dean.

eds.edu/previewMain.asp?pageID=316

 

[nhylan]

Then why hasn’t the Episcopal Church censoring her, or removed her from her position?

She’s the Dean of the Episcopal Divinity School in Mass.

Maybe she was disciplined you and I have no idea. Does the Roman Catholic church remove everyone from their position for voicing decent on any issue that goes against church teaching the very first time they voice that opinion? We aren’t thought police, she’s entitled to that opinion even if it’s in error. If she was teaching this specifically in her classes, that’s a different matter, she would be lying but there’s no evidence that she is currently teaching that only that she once espoused it in a sermon before she was Dean of the Episcopal Divinity School in Cambridge. People are allowed to make mistakes, you have no Idea whether she still thinks that or not.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

**Charitable communication is required under the rules below. **

 

[redroselover]

The Episcopal priest who said abortion is a blessing is named Reverend Ragsdale. She is a practicing lesbian who just had her same sex relationship blessed in the episcopal cathedral in Boston. She . in fact is the President of a major episcopal divinity school in /cambridge. She has also been welcomed at major Episcopal meetings of bishops. Look it up if you don’t believe me. . and I am not sure but I think she spoke at one national Episcopal convention. I could be wrong about that. The Episcopal church is in fact a member of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice. That does not mean that every Episcopal priest is prochoice (in fact I know of some who are active in the prolife movement). . It does mean however that the church as a whole in general has become dominated by prochoice voices, , and the prolife priests and laity seem to be loosing the battle. Some Episcopal dioceses have tried to get the church to remove its membership from the Religious Coalition but have been unsuccessful. The Episcopal church is on the verge of accepting same sex unions and is in the process now of studying and preparing a liturgy for those blessings. That direction was sent out of the last national convention. . At the next convention same sex marriages will probably be accepted. I am willing to look all this up and post it if neccessary. That is not me being uncharitable. I know and love many Episcopalians and spent a good bit of time at Episcopal services.

 

[redroselover]

Historic Lesbian Marriage in Boston Cathedral Unites Top Clergy of Episcopal Church

January 3, 2011

The Episcopalian bishop of Massachusetts began 2011 by solemnizing the first lesbian marriage – of two senior Episcopalian clergy – at Boston’s St Paul’s Cathedral Saturday (January 1).

The marriage of Episcopal Divinity School, dean and president, the Very Reverend Katherine Hancock Ragsdale and Mally Lloyd, Canon to the Ordinary, was the first lesbian marriage solemnized by the Right Reverend M Thomas Shaw SSJE, Bishop Diocesan of the Episcopal Diocese of Massachusetts.

At the marriage attended by close to 400 guests, Bishop Shaw commented: “God always rejoices when two people who love each other make a life long commitment in marriage to go deeper into the heart of God through each other. It’s a profound pleasure for me to celebrate with God and my friends, the marriage of Katherine and Mally.”

The couple met on June 30, 2008, at the urging of a mutual friend. At the time, Canon Lloyd, 57, said, “We were both travelling a lot and so we would talk by phone. And somehow when you talk a lot by phone, a relationship can go deeper more quickly than when you spend time in person. At least that is what happened to us.”

Although this is a second marriage for Canon Lloyd, it is the first for Dean Ragsdale,52. “It’s astonishing how the world is changing,’’ Dean Ragsdale said, “when I grew up, I never believed I would be able to have someone special in my life and now to have almost 400 people show up to support us at our marriage ceremony is wonderful.”

Canon Lloyd says: “We have a lot in common, we each have a spiritual life that the other understands and respects and we also understand the amount of travelling and often late hours that our work requires. Somehow too when you are in your fifties, certain things just aren’t as big a problem as they seemed in your twenties.”

Though the Episcopal Church’s canons and formularly still state that marriage is between a man and a woman, the church at its General Convention in July of 2009 decided to allow that “bishops, particularly those in dioceses within civil jurisdictions where same-gender marriage, civil unions or domestic partnerships are legal, may provide generous pastoral response to meet the needs of members of this church.”

In November 2009, Shaw announced his decision to allow clergy in the Diocese of Massachusetts to solemnize all marriages–a long wait for many given that same-gender marriage had been legalized in Massachusetts more than five years earlier.

Ragsdale, 52, became dean of the historic Episcopal Divinity School in October 2009. She is the first woman to hold that position. The school is among the most progressive seminaries in the world. It was the first to train African-American theologians, the first to accept women on its faculty and among the first to prepare women for ordination. The Nobel Laureate Archbishop Desmond Tutu selected the school with his daughter Mpho for her theological education.

Ragsdale is a graduate of the College of William and Mary and holds a master of divinity degree from Virginia Theological Seminary and a doctor of ministry degree from Episcopal Divinity School. She served as vicar of St. David’s Church in Pepperell and as president of Political Research Associates in Somerville before her appointment as president and dean of the Episcopal Divinity School in 2009.

Ragsdeale has served on the national boards of the White House Project, NARAL Pro-Choice America, the Center for the Prevention of Sexual and Domestic Violence, and the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice. She has worked in the national offices of the Episcopal Church and as a consultant in the areas of professional ethics, organizational planning and development, advocacy training, and theological foundations of public policy advocacy.

Lloyd, 57, as canon to the ordinary to Bishop M. Thomas Shaw, SSJE since December 2008, serves as a chief executive, overseeing operations for one of the Episcopal Church’s largest and most politically active dioceses. She is a deputy to the Episcopal Church’s General Convention and a member of the church’s influential Program, Budget and Finance Committee.

Prior to joining the bishop’s staff, Lloyd was for six years the rector of Christ Church in Plymouth. She has been an active leader in the diocese for many years, serving on Diocesan Council and its Executive Committee and providing mentorship through the Fresh Start program for clergy beginning in new ministry.

Filed Under Life & Style · Leave a Comment

 

[redroselover]

from Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice web page with list of members as follows":

Joining The Coalition
The Religious Coalition is a non-profit, non-partisan education and advocacy organization of religious and religiously affiliated groups working together to preserve the individual’s right to reproductive choice, free from government interference or coercion, and religious freedom for all Americans.

While theologically diverse, Religious Coalition members are unified in their commitment to safeguarding reproductive choice as an element of religious liberty and appreciate the opportunity to consult and work together on issues of common interest.

Coalition membership does not require or imply conformity to all the actions and initiatives of the Coalition. Each denomination and group is free to express its own opinions and beliefs on any topic. However, the member groups appreciate and support the value of working together for shared values of justice, tolerance, and religious freedom.

For information on organizational membership, please contact info@rcrc.org

Conservative Judaism
Rabbinical Assembly
United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism
Women’s League for Conservative Judaism

Episcopal Church

Ethical Culture
American Ethical Union National Service Conference

Humanist Judaism
Society for Humanistic Judaism

Presbyterian Church (USA)

Reconstructionist Judaism
Jewish Reconstructionist Federation
Reconstructionist Rabbinical Association

Reform Judaism
Central Conference of American Rabbis
North American Federation of Temple Youth
Union for Reform Judaism
Women of Reform Judaism, The Federation of Temple Sisterhoods
Women’s Rabbinic Network of Central Conference of American Rabbis

United Church of Christ

United Methodist Church
General Board of Church and Society, United Methodist Church
General Board of Global Ministries, Women’s Division, United Methodist Church

Unitarian Universalist
Unitarian Universalist Association
Unitarian Universalist Women’s Federation
Young Religious Unitarian Universalists
Continental Unitarian Universalist Young Adult Network

 

[redroselover]

nhylan she has not been disciplined.

 

[Barbkw]

The Episcopal priest who said abortion is a blessing is named Reverend Ragsdale. She is a practicing lesbian who just had her same sex relationship blessed in the episcopal cathedral in Boston. She . in fact is the President of a major episcopal divinity school in /cambridge. She has also been welcomed at major Episcopal meetings of bishops. Look it up if you don’t believe me. .

Photo of the wedding or blessing - or whatever:

towleroad.com/2011/01/high-ranking-lesbian-episcopal-priests-marry-in-massachusetts.html

In a wedding that appears to be the first of its kind in the U.S. – at least in the Episcopal Church – former Plymouth priest the Rev. Mally Lloyd married the Rev. Katherine Ragsdale, dean and president of the Episcopal Divinity School in Cambridge, on New Year’s Day.

The Rev. Lloyd, a former pastor at Christ Church in Plymouth, is now a ranking official of the Episcopal Diocese of Massachusetts.

The Rev. Lloyd and the Rev. Ragsdale were married in a ceremony at the Cathedral Church of St. Paul in Boston, with about 400 guests attending.

Bishop M. Thomas Shaw, the state’s highest ranking Episcopal official, presided.

 

[nhylan]

Photo of the wedding or blessing - or whatever:

towleroad.com/2011/01/high-ranking-lesbian-episcopal-priests-marry-in-massachusetts.html

No one is denying any of this happened, why post it over and over?