J
JesseW
Guest
Hi everyone,
It seems like these posts between Protestants and Catholics seldom cover fresh ground and reasonable arguments and presentations from both sides get shot down. I know I’ve limped away wounded more than once on this forum, and, I must confess, I’ve become upset and fired a few missiles of my own more than once. The topics of Mary, the Eucharist, etc. are very important- but which are essential doctrines for salvation? As I’ve once read, “all truths matter, but not all truths matter equally.” This thread isn’t necessarily about debating individual doctrines and dogmas, it’s about trying to understand how much we may have in common versus how much we differ.
It’s often asked why Protestants don’t recognize the need for one universal church. I would like to say that we do- we hold up the Apostles’ Creed, Nicene Creed, etc. in the same way that Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox do. By doing this, we are recognizing the role of Tradition in safeguarding the Gospel against heresy. I know a lot of Protestants that mourn over the countless divisions among denominations. I cringe every time I hear a friend rave about the teachings of Joel Olstein (prosperity theology that turns God into a genie in a bottle), the way Pentacostals in Brazil steal from and brainwash the poor, the continuation of ever-splintering denominations, etc. In the same way, many of my Catholic friends discuss their frustration in how many Catholics have strayed from official Church teachings- “evolving” doctrines in third-world countries that add superstitious elements to Biblical truth, people petitioning for Mary to be added as a fourth component to the Trinity, etc. We all deal with these problems. Yes, the Catholic Church does have a structure that enables it to deal with these issues where Protestants do not, I will admit to that- yet the problems continue regardless for both sides of the coin.
I present the case that since the 16th century, the cultures of the two camps have diverged so much that we are now very limited in our understanding of one another. When Catholics present the case for venerating Mary, Protestants see idolatry and worship. Catholics get upset by this and ask why it is wrong to honor Mary. The arguments become circular and no progress is made. Could it be that our cultures are so different now that if a Protestant were to venerate Mary in a Catholic sense, he/she would indeed be guilty of idolatry, where a Catholic could do the same while completely avoiding the act of idolatry- thereby leading to heated discussion and hurtful debate between the two on the topic?
I have been told that Eastern Orthodox culture is so different from both Roman Catholicism and Protestantism that they can’t really understand the differences between us. But what if we have diverged so much that WE can no longer really understand the differences between us?
Many Protestants outside of the Lutheran camp of consubstantiation have been accused of being too casual in our doctrines of communion. Yet, we universally refuse to take communion in an unworthy manner- which suggests far more than a mere “symbolic” belief. Can this really be discussed in the limited format of language in ways that Catholics that did not grow up Protestant would understand- much in the same way as veneration of Mary for Catholics? What about justification and sanctification? Faith-alone for us is so much like Mary for you- we describe it until we’re blue in the face but we just don’t seem to be able to successfully share this doctrine in an accurate way.
Anyway, just something to ponder.
God bless to all of you, my brothers and sisters in Christ.
It seems like these posts between Protestants and Catholics seldom cover fresh ground and reasonable arguments and presentations from both sides get shot down. I know I’ve limped away wounded more than once on this forum, and, I must confess, I’ve become upset and fired a few missiles of my own more than once. The topics of Mary, the Eucharist, etc. are very important- but which are essential doctrines for salvation? As I’ve once read, “all truths matter, but not all truths matter equally.” This thread isn’t necessarily about debating individual doctrines and dogmas, it’s about trying to understand how much we may have in common versus how much we differ.
It’s often asked why Protestants don’t recognize the need for one universal church. I would like to say that we do- we hold up the Apostles’ Creed, Nicene Creed, etc. in the same way that Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox do. By doing this, we are recognizing the role of Tradition in safeguarding the Gospel against heresy. I know a lot of Protestants that mourn over the countless divisions among denominations. I cringe every time I hear a friend rave about the teachings of Joel Olstein (prosperity theology that turns God into a genie in a bottle), the way Pentacostals in Brazil steal from and brainwash the poor, the continuation of ever-splintering denominations, etc. In the same way, many of my Catholic friends discuss their frustration in how many Catholics have strayed from official Church teachings- “evolving” doctrines in third-world countries that add superstitious elements to Biblical truth, people petitioning for Mary to be added as a fourth component to the Trinity, etc. We all deal with these problems. Yes, the Catholic Church does have a structure that enables it to deal with these issues where Protestants do not, I will admit to that- yet the problems continue regardless for both sides of the coin.
I present the case that since the 16th century, the cultures of the two camps have diverged so much that we are now very limited in our understanding of one another. When Catholics present the case for venerating Mary, Protestants see idolatry and worship. Catholics get upset by this and ask why it is wrong to honor Mary. The arguments become circular and no progress is made. Could it be that our cultures are so different now that if a Protestant were to venerate Mary in a Catholic sense, he/she would indeed be guilty of idolatry, where a Catholic could do the same while completely avoiding the act of idolatry- thereby leading to heated discussion and hurtful debate between the two on the topic?
I have been told that Eastern Orthodox culture is so different from both Roman Catholicism and Protestantism that they can’t really understand the differences between us. But what if we have diverged so much that WE can no longer really understand the differences between us?
Many Protestants outside of the Lutheran camp of consubstantiation have been accused of being too casual in our doctrines of communion. Yet, we universally refuse to take communion in an unworthy manner- which suggests far more than a mere “symbolic” belief. Can this really be discussed in the limited format of language in ways that Catholics that did not grow up Protestant would understand- much in the same way as veneration of Mary for Catholics? What about justification and sanctification? Faith-alone for us is so much like Mary for you- we describe it until we’re blue in the face but we just don’t seem to be able to successfully share this doctrine in an accurate way.
Anyway, just something to ponder.
God bless to all of you, my brothers and sisters in Christ.