Considering defection?

[JM22]

I’m a 21 year old college student, and I’ve been told it’s understandable that I’m questioning my faith at this time of my life. It’s certainly not unheard for people my age. I’m conflicted about embracing my Catholic identity because I don’t agree with some of the Church’s doctrines that I don’t think will change any time soon. That said, I’ll never abandon Christianity - I truly cherish my relationship with God, Christ, the Holy Mother, and the Holy Spirit. I look to them on a daily basis for guidance and reassurance. I wholly appreciate the community I’ve been blessed to be a part of through my parish - the same parish my grandparents attended and extended family were baptized, confirmed, and married in. I participated in the KAIROS retreat in high school, which, at the time, really reaffirmed my Catholic faith. However, I don’t think I can continue to support an organization that condones social injustices that, in my heart of hearts, do not correspond with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

For instance, I cannot accept the Church’s stance on homosexuality. Biblical condemnations of same-sex relations are derivative of 3,000 year old Semitic customs, that are more cultural than divine. I don’t assume that Catholics hate homosexuals - I’m familiar with the “don’t hate the sinner, hate the sin,” mantra, but I refuse to categorize homosexuality, a genetic trait that cannot be selected or controlled, alongside things like murder and adultery. Sinning is a willful act. Being born a certain way is not.

Also, I cannot reconcile the Church’s exclusion of female clergy. I understand that the Twelve Apostles were all male, but that’s not a good enough argument for me to support an organization that does not allow women to express their faith to the same extent as men. Regardless of the reasoning, it’s purely and unarguably exclusive, and any group that excludes individuals from obtaining a position based on a biological, and subsequently uncontrollable, characteristic is antithetical to the inclusive nature of Christianity. Mary Magdalene may not have been an apostle, but she and the Holy Mother prove that women are just as important as men in Christian theology.

However, the mere fact that I’m on this message board asking for advice is a clear indication that I’m not entirely sure that I want to leave the Church. Is there room for change? Are there reasons for these doctrines that I’ve overlooked that might change my mind, or at least help me understand? Right now, I’m seeing more reasons to leave the Church than to stay. I don’t want to be a superficial Christian who identifies with a church simply for sentimental reasons. That’s not what faith is about.

Help?

PS - Please don’t try to change my mind on the facts of homosexuality. I respect the rights of others to have differing opinions regarding whether or not homosexuality is a natural condition, but it’s not an argument I’m willing to engage in right now.

 

[Muze]

I think you need to understand something: You’re never going to agree 100% with any Religious organization. Never. Each person has their own experiences and personality and they’re going to see things a bit differently.

And that’s OK.

I would encourage you to remain within the RCC and work to reach understanding and work to change what is wrong from within. The issues you are concerned about do not affect salvation or the core of the gospel message. So, take them as disputable matters and engage the RCC from where you are.

The issues you surface just aren’t sufficient to leave over.

 

[Prophesy]

I’m a 21 year old college student, and I’ve been told it’s understandable that I’m questioning my faith at this time of my life. It’s certainly not unheard for people my age. I’m conflicted about embracing my Catholic identity because I don’t agree with some of the Church’s doctrines that I don’t think will change any time soon. That said, I’ll never abandon Christianity - I truly cherish my relationship with God, Christ, the Holy Mother, and the Holy Spirit. I look to them on a daily basis for guidance and reassurance. I wholly appreciate the community I’ve been blessed to be a part of through my parish - the same parish my grandparents attended and extended family were baptized, confirmed, and married in. I participated in the KAIROS retreat in high school, which, at the time, really reaffirmed my Catholic faith. However, I don’t think I can continue to support an organization that condones social injustices that, in my heart of hearts, do not correspond with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

For instance, I cannot accept the Church’s stance on homosexuality. Biblical condemnations of same-sex relations are derivative of 3,000 year old Semitic customs, that are more cultural than divine. I don’t assume that Catholics hate homosexuals - I’m familiar with the “don’t hate the sinner, hate the sin,” mantra, but I refuse to categorize homosexuality, a genetic trait that cannot be selected or controlled, alongside things like murder and adultery. Sinning is a willful act. Being born a certain way is not.

Also, I cannot reconcile the Church’s exclusion of female clergy. I understand that the Twelve Apostles were all male, but that’s not a good enough argument for me to support an organization that does not allow women to express their faith to the same extent as men. Regardless of the reasoning, it’s purely and unarguably exclusive, and any group that excludes individuals from obtaining a position based on a biological, and subsequently uncontrollable, characteristic is antithetical to the inclusive nature of Christianity. Mary Magdalene may not have been an apostle, but she and the Holy Mother prove that women are just as important as men in Christian theology.

However, the mere fact that I’m on this message board asking for advice is a clear indication that I’m not entirely sure that I want to leave the Church. Is there room for change? Are there reasons for these doctrines that I’ve overlooked that might change my mind, or at least help me understand? Right now, I’m seeing more reasons to leave the Church than to stay. I don’t want to be a superficial Christian who identifies with a church simply for sentimental reasons. That’s not what faith is about.

Help?

PS - Please don’t try to change my mind on the facts of homosexuality. I respect the rights of others to have differing opinions regarding whether or not homosexuality is a natural condition, but it’s not an argument I’m willing to engage in right now.

Hey JM,

I can relate, I’m actually also a 21 year old graduate (B.Sc.). If you haven’t taken the time to read more into why the Church stands in these positions as She does, I encourage you to do so (perhaps William E. May’s Catholic BioEthics and the Gift of Human Life). If you want to discuss some of these issues, I’ll gladly talk them out with you.

But to let know Muze that I’m not a super contrarian, I agree with him. As long as you have faith in the Church, I hope that you continue to stay with Her.

-Prophesy

 

[JM22]

Thank you for the response. Would you mind explaining why you don’t think they’re sufficient enough to leave?

You’re never going to agree 100% with any Religious organization

And I’d like to add that I don’t only perceive the Catholic Church this way. I would never consider joining Islam or Orthodox Judaism for the exact same reasons. I have examined the Episcopal Church at length, and there seem to be many ritualistic similarities between it and the Catholic Church, except they don’t condemn homosexuality and they permit female clergy.

If I agree with the doctrines of another sect more than Catholicism, isn’t that sufficient enough reason to change?

 

[Prophesy]

Thank you for the response. Would you mind explaining why you don’t think they’re sufficient enough to leave?

And I’d like to add that I don’t only perceive the Catholic Church this way. I would never consider joining Islam or Orthodox Judaism for the exact same reasons. I have examined the Episcopal Church at length, and there seem to be many ritualistic similarities between it and the Catholic Church, except they don’t condemn homosexuality and they permit female clergy.

That is true, however they do lack the Apostolic succession of the Church, but that may not be something you’re concerned with.

If I agree with the doctrines of another sect more than Catholicism, isn’t that sufficient enough reason to change?

Perhaps, but I figure that if that was merely true, you would have changed already.

-Prophesy

 

[1ke]

The main thing I see is that you are trying to separate Christ and his Church, as if they are two different things. They are not.

Christ founded the Church, and what the Church teaches us is the fullness of Truth.

Your issue isn’t with the individual teachings. It is with a right understanding of authority and objective truth.

When we “disagree” with Church teaching, it is not the Church that is wrong. It is us. The Church cannot teach error. I encourage you to study in this area-- Christ’s authority and his investment of that authority in the Bishops to teach the truth for our salvation.

So many people today try to approach the Church as they do secular life-- as if polls or votes or opinions matter. They do not. Objective truth is eternal. And, it is our job to bring our conscience and our will into conformity with this reality. We are made to be in union with God. It is sin that makes us believe we can conform God to what we “think” should be true or that “our” conception of God is the reality.

 

[1ke]

I think you need to understand something: **You’re never going to agree 100% with any Religious organization. **Never. Each person has their own experiences and personality and they’re going to see things a bit differently.

And that’s OK.

This is, at its heart, everything that is wrong with Christianity today. A rejection of objective, eternal truth.

I would encourage you to remain within the RCC and work to reach understanding and work to change what is wrong from within. The issues you are concerned about do not affect salvation or the core of the gospel message. So, take them as disputable matters and engage the RCC from where you are.

More of the same. The idea that the Church is wrong and “we” are right. That the Church can change its teaching and is just currently refusing or “not ready” to do so. That we must work to “change” the Church.

False ideas, all.

These are not “disputable matters” and they most certainly do effect salvation.

 

[1ke]

If I agree with the doctrines of another sect more than Catholicism, isn’t that sufficient enough reason to change?

No.

 

[fermat]

For instance, I cannot accept the Church’s stance on homosexuality. Biblical condemnations of same-sex relations are derivative of 3,000 year old Semitic customs, that are more cultural than divine. I don’t assume that Catholics hate homosexuals - I’m familiar with the “don’t hate the sinner, hate the sin,” mantra, but I refuse to categorize homosexuality, a genetic trait that cannot be selected or controlled, alongside things like murder and adultery. Sinning is a willful act. Being born a certain way is not.

I don’t have a lot time this morning, so I’ll post this:

From the Cathecism of the Catholic Church:
Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

**2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.** (the random numbers throughout are footnotes)

You encourage you to read the whole section here.

The reason the church does not support homosexuality is that it violates the natural order of things. A penis is designed to go into a vagina and that act can create life. A homosexual union is disordered both the action itself and the fact that it is not pro-creative. Not trying to change you mind here, just clarify why the church teaches what she does.

For the matter of women priests, I would suggest reading Ordinatio Sacerdotalis. Pay attention to the last paragraph or two. It gives the reason why the church cannot (not just won’t, cannot ordain female priests.

I don’t expect any of this to change your mind, but I do hope it offers a solid justification for the reason the church holds these stands.

 

[ERose]

I’m a 21 year old college student, and I’ve been told it’s understandable that I’m questioning my faith at this time of my life. It’s certainly not unheard for people my age. I’m conflicted about embracing my Catholic identity because I don’t agree with some of the Church’s doctrines that I don’t think will change any time soon. That said, I’ll never abandon Christianity - I truly cherish my relationship with God, Christ, the Holy Mother, and the Holy Spirit. I look to them on a daily basis for guidance and reassurance. I wholly appreciate the community I’ve been blessed to be a part of through my parish - the same parish my grandparents attended and extended family were baptized, confirmed, and married in. I participated in the KAIROS retreat in high school, which, at the time, really reaffirmed my Catholic faith. However, I don’t think I can continue to support an organization that condones social injustices that, in my heart of hearts, do not correspond with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

For instance, I cannot accept the Church’s stance on homosexuality. Biblical condemnations of same-sex relations are derivative of 3,000 year old Semitic customs, that are more cultural than divine. I don’t assume that Catholics hate homosexuals - I’m familiar with the “don’t hate the sinner, hate the sin,” mantra, but I refuse to categorize homosexuality, a genetic trait that cannot be selected or controlled, alongside things like murder and adultery. Sinning is a willful act. Being born a certain way is not.

Also, I cannot reconcile the Church’s exclusion of female clergy. I understand that the Twelve Apostles were all male, but that’s not a good enough argument for me to support an organization that does not allow women to express their faith to the same extent as men. Regardless of the reasoning, it’s purely and unarguably exclusive, and any group that excludes individuals from obtaining a position based on a biological, and subsequently uncontrollable, characteristic is antithetical to the inclusive nature of Christianity. Mary Magdalene may not have been an apostle, but she and the Holy Mother prove that women are just as important as men in Christian theology.

However, the mere fact that I’m on this message board asking for advice is a clear indication that I’m not entirely sure that I want to leave the Church. Is there room for change? Are there reasons for these doctrines that I’ve overlooked that might change my mind, or at least help me understand? Right now, I’m seeing more reasons to leave the Church than to stay. I don’t want to be a superficial Christian who identifies with a church simply for sentimental reasons. That’s not what faith is about.

Help?

PS - Please don’t try to change my mind on the facts of homosexuality. I respect the rights of others to have differing opinions regarding whether or not homosexuality is a natural condition, but it’s not an argument I’m willing to engage in right now.

I think that if I was you I would pray to God to help me with my pride and gain some humility. What I see here is what so many other prideful and arrogant people conclude which is that they are smarter and wiser than God and so instead of trying to mold oneself into the image of God they have decide it is so much easier and better for them to mold God into their image, which is what you are wanting to do.

Now there is a part of you that is resisting this arrogance and that is the reason why you are finding it relatively difficult to act upon your pride and have come here for advice. Listen to that part of you. That is the Holy Spirit speaking to you so listen to Him.

 

[Muze]

Thank you for the response. Would you mind explaining why you don’t think they’re sufficient enough to leave?

And I’d like to add that I don’t only perceive the Catholic Church this way. I would never consider joining Islam or Orthodox Judaism for the exact same reasons. I have examined the Episcopal Church at length, and there seem to be many ritualistic similarities between it and the Catholic Church, except they don’t condemn homosexuality and they permit female clergy.

If I agree with the doctrines of another sect more than Catholicism, isn’t that sufficient enough reason to change?

I would engage in this conversation with you priest to see if what you’ve been taught is actually true.

 

[Myqyl]

I’m with you in your disagreement with the Church on some of these issues. What I’m not with you on is the solution of leaving the Church because you differ with some teachings. Many of us question the stance on homosexuality. Is it sinful to engage in a homosexual act? I don’t know… I’ve never faced that temptation… I’m plenty busy enough keeping myself from the sins I AM tempted by to worry about the sins I am NOT tempted by. As for how we are to treat homosexuals, I am in full communion with what the Catechism teaches. We are to defend them even at the risk of our own lives. We are to fight endlessly for their protection from all forms of discrimination. We are to love them unconditionally as Jesus loved us.

I think you might be listening to a very vocal minority in the Church that do not follow the Church’s teaching. They believe they are endowed with a quest to end homosexuality. This is NOT the teaching of the Church. It is the view of a few self proclaimed crusaders.

As per your questioning of the role of women in the Church. Many here will tell you that it is clearly God’s will that women not participate as Deacons or Priests, despite Scriptural evidence that the early Church held a different view. The Church does not change course with the prevailing social winds and I think you would agree it shouldn’t. But just 2 weeks ago I heard a Priest say during a Homily that he would not be surprised if in 200 years the Church will be led by Pope Mary Joseph. Many here on this ultra-conservative right leaning forum are going to say this priest is a heretic and should be burned. They will likely suggest that I should be used as the kindling. Let them say what they will, they are NOT the voice of the Church.

If all people of conscience leave the Church, the Church will lose it’s conscience. Don’t leave the Church. Help Her.

God bless

Mike

 

[SteveGC]

The main thing I see is that you are trying to separate Christ and his Church, as if they are two different things. They are not.

Christ founded the Church, and what the Church teaches us is the fullness of Truth.

Your issue isn’t with the individual teachings. It is with a right understanding of authority and objective truth.

When we “disagree” with Church teaching, it is not the Church that is wrong. It is us. The Church cannot teach error. I encourage you to study in this area-- Christ’s authority and his investment of that authority in the Bishops to teach the truth for our salvation.

So many people today try to approach the Church as they do secular life-- as if polls or votes or opinions matter. They do not. Objective truth is eternal. And, it is our job to bring our conscience and our will into conformity with this reality. We are made to be in union with God. It is sin that makes us believe we can conform God to what we “think” should be true or that “our” conception of God is the reality.

I think that if I was you I would pray to God to help me with my pride and gain some humility. What I see here is what so many other prideful and arrogant people conclude which is that they are smarter and wiser than God and so instead of trying to mold oneself into the image of God they have decide it is so much easier and better for them to mold God into their image, which is what you are wanting to do.

Now there is a part of you that is resisting this arrogance and that is the reason why you are finding it relatively difficult to act upon your pride and have come here for advice. Listen to that part of you. That is the Holy Spirit speaking to you so listen to Him.

Best answers.

My recommendation is for the OP to read the above over and over until it really sinks in.

 

[sehrwunderbar]

If you truly believe the other things that the Church teaches, then you would understand that God has a plan. He formed us before we were even born and if that meant that he made one person a woman and another a man then so be it. Just because women cannot be priests does not mean that there is not a proper place for us in the Church. Priests have one duty and lay people another. We are all called to act in ways suitable to what God plans for us. Some people ignore that plan and decide they know better than God, that is sad.

I ask you why you think that there necessarily should be women priests? If it is just because you think that it is an exclusion based on something we cannot control, ie whether we are male or female, than I still point you to the fact that God made each and every one of us according to His plan. We should not want to undermine that plan.

 

[GEddie]

. Many of us question the stance on homosexuality. Is it sinful to engage in a homosexual act?

Of course it is. For the same reason that it is a sin to engage in fornication or adultery with someone of the opposite gender. It is a sexual act outside of marriage.

As for how we are to treat homosexuals, I am in full communion with what the Catechism teaches. We are to defend them even at the risk of our own lives. We are to fight endlessly for their protection from all forms of discrimination.

Hmmm… given that they would consider the lack of gay “marriage” rights to be ‘discrimination’, your statement seems a wee bit simplistic.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

I’m a 21 year old college student, and I’ve been told it’s understandable that I’m questioning my faith at this time of my life. It’s certainly not unheard for people my age. I’m conflicted about embracing my Catholic identity because I don’t agree with some of the Church’s doctrines that I don’t think will change any time soon. That said, I’ll never abandon Christianity - I truly cherish my relationship with God, Christ, the Holy Mother, and the Holy Spirit. I look to them on a daily basis for guidance and reassurance. I wholly appreciate the community I’ve been blessed to be a part of through my parish - the same parish my grandparents attended and extended family were baptized, confirmed, and married in. I participated in the KAIROS retreat in high school, which, at the time, really reaffirmed my Catholic faith. However, I don’t think I can continue to support an organization that condones social injustices that, in my heart of hearts, do not correspond with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

For instance, I cannot accept the Church’s stance on homosexuality. Biblical condemnations of same-sex relations are derivative of 3,000 year old Semitic customs, that are more cultural than divine. I don’t assume that Catholics hate homosexuals - I’m familiar with the “don’t hate the sinner, hate the sin,” mantra, but I refuse to categorize homosexuality, a genetic trait that cannot be selected or controlled, alongside things like murder and adultery. Sinning is a willful act. Being born a certain way is not.

Also, I cannot reconcile the Church’s exclusion of female clergy. I understand that the Twelve Apostles were all male, but that’s not a good enough argument for me to support an organization that does not allow women to express their faith to the same extent as men. Regardless of the reasoning, it’s purely and unarguably exclusive, and any group that excludes individuals from obtaining a position based on a biological, and subsequently uncontrollable, characteristic is antithetical to the inclusive nature of Christianity. Mary Magdalene may not have been an apostle, but she and the Holy Mother prove that women are just as important as men in Christian theology.

However, the mere fact that I’m on this message board asking for advice is a clear indication that I’m not entirely sure that I want to leave the Church. Is there room for change? Are there reasons for these doctrines that I’ve overlooked that might change my mind, or at least help me understand? Right now, I’m seeing more reasons to leave the Church than to stay. I don’t want to be a superficial Christian who identifies with a church simply for sentimental reasons. That’s not what faith is about.

Help?

PS - Please don’t try to change my mind on the facts of homosexuality. I respect the rights of others to have differing opinions regarding whether or not homosexuality is a natural condition, but it’s not an argument I’m willing to engage in right now.

With all due respect, the need to disagree with older people and established teachings just because one is young is a very common side-effect of youth. It’s not worth changing religions over.

The Anglican Church emerged in the 1500s as a result of a conflict over a European country’s royal succession. The Catholic Church was created by the laying on of our LORD’s own hands. Which church, apart from present-day social concerns, would it make more sense to be or remain a part of?

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.

 

[CalCatholic]

Don’t leave the Church that you probably agree with on 95+% of her teachings. You are focusing on things that you don’t agree on with the Church, but try focusing on the things that you do agree on. The Catholic Church is the greatest charitable organization in the world. The Church takes a stand for the sanctity of human life from the moment of conception till natural death and does not compromise it away in portions as others do. The Catholic Church has done more for social justice all over the world than any other organization! The Catholic Church has educated more people over the centuries than any other organization. The Catholic Church has a lot of room inside, and plenty of room for you!

 

[Jim_Dandy]

The Catholic Church is God-made and protected by the Holy Spirit from teaching error.

All other ecclesial communities (there is only one Church, founded by Christ) are man-made, based on some founder’s interpretation of the Bible that conflicts and competes with every other ecclesial community – and there are thousands of them.

The Catholic Church cannot teach error. All others teach partial truth mixed with error.

If you wish to believe what Jesus and the Apostles taught, be Catholic.

Peace, Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

 

[jpeil]

As a revert back to Catholicism I eventually saw the consequences of doctrine shopping. I loved worshiptainment at large mega church’s, I loved the idea of “once saved always saved”, I loved the idea of " faith alone" no cooperating with gods grace, I loved the idea of no confession, I loved the idea that if my marriage didn’t work, god would understand and would want me to get remarried again, I loved the idea that contraception is ok its really up to you.
I loved everything but the inconvenient truth. When I was involved at other Churches I look back now a see how much I indirectly validated others decision by rejecting the RCC in my actions and thoughts.
Through scripture , history , reason and the holy spirt I finally came to the conclusion that Christ established a visible Church endowed with Authority in Faith and morals the Catholic Church. He did not establish a bunch of Churches with doctrine of your choosing that fits todays Culture. A Church designed to protect its members from false doctrine. And yes what it teaches on Homosexuality may seem to some as a persecution but really its protection for their souls. The Church can never judge some ones culpability for why they are attracted to a same gender,they just simply know that acting it out has negative consequences temporally and spiritually and their is great love in telling the truth .

It’s normal to search at 21… I just hope what you find makes you a more convicted RC…

At 21 if someone asked my why I was Catholic I would not have a convicted answer, I know now!!! May God bless your journey to the fullness of truth.

 

[Son_of_Liberty]

I’m a 21 year old college student, and I’ve been told it’s understandable that I’m questioning my faith at this time of my life. It’s certainly not unheard for people my age. I’m conflicted about embracing my Catholic identity because I don’t agree with some of the Church’s doctrines that I don’t think will change any time soon. That said, I’ll never abandon Christianity - I truly cherish my relationship with God, Christ, the Holy Mother, and the Holy Spirit. I look to them on a daily basis for guidance and reassurance. I wholly appreciate the community I’ve been blessed to be a part of through my parish - the same parish my grandparents attended and extended family were baptized, confirmed, and married in. I participated in the KAIROS retreat in high school, which, at the time, really reaffirmed my Catholic faith. However, I don’t think I can continue to support an organization that condones social injustices that, in my heart of hearts, do not correspond with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

For instance, I cannot accept the Church’s stance on homosexuality. Biblical condemnations of same-sex relations are derivative of 3,000 year old Semitic customs, that are more cultural than divine. I don’t assume that Catholics hate homosexuals - I’m familiar with the “don’t hate the sinner, hate the sin,” mantra, but I refuse to categorize homosexuality, a genetic trait that cannot be selected or controlled, alongside things like murder and adultery. Sinning is a willful act. Being born a certain way is not.

Also, I cannot reconcile the Church’s exclusion of female clergy. I understand that the Twelve Apostles were all male, but that’s not a good enough argument for me to support an organization that does not allow women to express their faith to the same extent as men. Regardless of the reasoning, it’s purely and unarguably exclusive, and any group that excludes individuals from obtaining a position based on a biological, and subsequently uncontrollable, characteristic is antithetical to the inclusive nature of Christianity. Mary Magdalene may not have been an apostle, but she and the Holy Mother prove that women are just as important as men in Christian theology.

However, the mere fact that I’m on this message board asking for advice is a clear indication that I’m not entirely sure that I want to leave the Church. Is there room for change? Are there reasons for these doctrines that I’ve overlooked that might change my mind, or at least help me understand? Right now, I’m seeing more reasons to leave the Church than to stay. I don’t want to be a superficial Christian who identifies with a church simply for sentimental reasons. That’s not what faith is about.

Help?

PS - Please don’t try to change my mind on the facts of homosexuality. I respect the rights of others to have differing opinions regarding whether or not homosexuality is a natural condition, but it’s not an argument I’m willing to engage in right now.

You can respect the rights of others while politely disagreeing with their choices to live out the lifestyle… most of all, pray that they do not fall vicitm to sinfullness.

One thing we must remember is that we are to conform ourselves to Christ, not the other way around. The Church is his bride and therefore made one with his body. He founded this Church on Peter to teach us and guide us. Sometimes we don’t like what we hear… but that is our way, the human way - not Christs. It sounds like you may be letting too much worldliness into your theology. Take care with this.

Be in the World but not of the World.