Considering Leaving Mormonism For Traditional Christianity...

[kimg901]

Well L-Dub, may God Bless you on your journey. We will ask the Blessed Mother to help us pray for you and that the Holy Spirit guides you

 

[KathleenGee]

Dear Livingwaters,

The grace of truth is surrounding you…it is said we do not come to God so much as He comes searching for us.

God bless you for the good values that you have!

I pray the Blessed Mother be your sister and friend in this time of reflection. I would call on her, and then if you are inspired, echoing Rebecca, would pray a rosary.

I was confused way back then in regards to Liberation Theology…and I finally prayed one rosary, 7 years later…the day the Holy Father was shot in Rome.

His wounds healed me, and after 15 minutes reciting the rosary, I was immersed in truth and purity.

Keep you in prayer!

 

[KathleenGee]

Dear Marie…

So sorry about the loss of the greenhouses and yes, we are watching and praying for people back east in the snow storms.

May God bless and restore your properties!

 

[batman1973]

Prayers your way. And, there’s lots of ex-mos on here who will gladly listen, pray, and talk with you. God Bless you in your journey. Leaving the Latter Day Saint faith is not easy, but well worth it.

 

[LivingWaters7]

You have a lot to think about, to meditate on.

There is only one question that I will pose to you think and meditate on whatever concerns or issues or loves you have.

How important is spiritual truth, spiritual realities to you?

God Bless. Will be praying for you and your journey. Wherever it leads, where ever you find God takes you.

Thanks! And yes, the Truth, the Reality, is really what it comes down to for me, as I don’t want to be wasting my time on something that doesn’t have eternal significance, no matter how great it may be in this life. For me, the most important thing is to know that God exists, and that I can be in His presence for eternity, with my family and loved ones. The question then becomes where is that Truth found, hence my confusion .

 

[LivingWaters7]

First thanks for asking this hard question

I would ask my self what did the first followers of Jesus do and write down how did they interprate his teachings

I suggest reading the early Christian writings such as
Ignatous of Antioch
Polycarp
Justin Myrtr
And so on

God bless your journey

Thanks a lot! Yes, these ECFs are what I’m looking for, for one, as they are amongst the earliest writers we have from the ancient Church.

When I saw the title of your thread, I had to take you off of ignore to see what was going on.

Good for you!! I realize that you are not saying you will convert, and you’re not saying you’re not. Just the fact that you are investigating things is a HUGE step.

Converting, let alone thinking about it is very difficult. Believe me, I’ve been there.

Reading some of the Early Church Fathers (ECFs) are a great place to start. Aquinas for one.

Another great place to start (which I highly recommend), is talk to a priest. Call a local parish, or one a bit further away(if you’re worried about being seen), and make an appointment to meet with him. They are a huge resource, and can provide you with a wealth of information, with absolutely no obligation.

Another great resource is our forum members who were previously mormon. Most of them struggled with the same points as you.

I will pray for you on this journey. I know it will be difficult, but remember the Holy Spirit is leading you this way for a reason. Just be open to it.

God Bless.

Haha, yes, I expected that you’d have to take me off ignore to see what I said . No worries. Thanks for your advice! I will be reading the ECFs, and will definitely read some Augustine, as you suggested later on.

Aquinas is rather too late to be counted amongst the Early Church Fathers.

To the OP: I will say a prayer for you. Wishing you the best on your journey. Perhaps read something accessible like ‘Mere Christianity’ by C. S. Lewis to accommodate yourself with the more mainstream understandings of the Christian faith.

I’ll add Mere Christianity to my list. I’ve always wanted to read it, but never have.

 

[SpeSalvi]

Regardless of where you end up, I pray that this journey be profound and enlightening for you

A book that helped me navigate my own faith journey was “Introduction to The Devout Life” by Francis DeSales. I loved the meditations in it and it helped me REALLY do the “search, ponder, and pray”. I have a lot of love for the LDS church and always will, but my soul just sings when I attend Mass. Knowing that God is present for all to experience is a wonderful reassurance.

Good luck in your searches- please keep us updated and don’t hesitate to PM me if you like

 

[LivingWaters7]

You are in my prayers, LivingWaters7. I wanted to address some of the points where I thought I could give my (name removed by moderator)ut as someone who reluctantly left the LDS faith and reluctantly committed to the Catholic faith.

Marriage: The prospect of being with the person you love forever is very appealing. Keep in mind that Catholicism doesn’t hold that you will be separated from your loved ones in heaven. I am confident that the relationships we have here on earth now will be even better in heaven. The reason Catholics don’t believe we are married in heaven is due to the Catholic understanding of what marriage is: a visible and material grace to procreate and unify husband and wife. Because there will be no procreation in heaven there will be no need for marriage; however, we will still be unified to our loved ones.

Thanks. Yes, the thing that I don’t “like” is thinking that I’ll just have the same relationship with everyone else (assuming I’m saved of course!).

**
Continuing Revelation:**This one was pretty easy for me to get past, but I understand its appeal and your difficulty letting go. The first question I have for you is what revelation has come from the LDS faith that you find profound and significant? When I asked myself this question I couldn’t think of anything substantial that the LDS faith offered that wasn’t either already in Christianity or problematic (i.e. priesthood ban, polygamy). A follow-up question: if the entirety of truth and love are revealed in Christ and scripture why is continuing revelation necessary?

Well, I guess what is appealing is really just “continuing revelation” as a concept. These days, we don’t really have profound revelations as those found in the scriptures or in the early days of the Restoration. Instead, we tend to think that the Church is continuously led by revelation, and we are open to the possibility of further truths being revealed, or further scriptures written. We also accept personal revelation to guide our lives, our families, etc. But when you think about it, the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, etc., have always accepted that their churches are led through inspiration by the Holy Ghost (essentially what we as LDS believe), and that individual members can receive inspiration and guidance through the Spirit. While those churches state that public revelation ended, I guess the question becomes, what is “public revelation”, and why did it end? Then we could compare how LDS vs. traditional Christians view that matter, once the definition is agreed upon (since LDS don’t really talk about “public” revelation).

I’ve actually read the debate you linked. It was okay, but I think the Catholic representative could have done better.

Oh ok. Do you have any better recommendations on the Catholic perspective on a total apostasy of the Church? I believe I’ve seen RebeccaJ reference an article that was written by the SLC Catholic bishop or something on the continuity of the Catholic Church?

The most important question to ask, I think, is whether, at its core (doctrinally), what Catholicism teaches is problematic in itself. Is the Church’s teaching harmful? Does it seem true in the fallen world in which we live? If so, why was a restoration necessary? If not, then keep working at it.

Right, for me, the important question is, as you say, was a restoration needed? Or, did a total apostasy of the ancient Church occur?

Mormonthink is good. Helped me out a lot. I think two good questions to ask as you read LDS apologetics are 1. Do I find this answer compelling? 2. Are there other explanations that are just as convincing? I actually ended up drifting further away from the LDS faith because I found FARMS and FAIR unconvincing.

I find much of what FARMS and FAIR say convincing, in the sense that some critical and/or anti arguments are a bit wanting, depending on who’s talking. They also add insight and information that is many times left out from critical arguments. What I really find unconvincing is when references are made to writings by ancient Israelites, Christians, and non-mainstream ancient Christians (refraining from calling them heretics ) as evidence that various unique LDS beliefs didn’t just originate in the 1800s, yet there is still no evidence of a unified, cohesive ancient Church that held all said beliefs. What I’m saying is, despite those references, I don’t see a Church of Jesus Christ of Former-day Saints with those unique beliefs (even if I still allow for the latter-day revelation of certain unique beliefs, or further extrapolation on those beliefs).

As someone who has been there I understand the struggle. Just keep praying for an open mind and open hart, and above all else, the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

I will, thanks.

 

[LivingWaters7]

LW7, I can’t think of a Mormon resource that is convincing. I think if I could, I would not have left Mormonism. That isn’t to say I don’t understand the reasoning the LDS have for staying in LDS church, because I do, it just doesn’t fly with me.

I can only recommend that you deepen your personal spiritual practices, More prayer and more study of the Bible. It is Lent, after all, when we are called to deepening conversion and penitence. Join us during this time, in deepening your own spirituality. Holy Week is coming up, the Triduum is a good time to worship Christ, in communion with the whole Church. Fast with us on Good Friday.

Pray the rosary.

God bless you on your journey, wherever your path may lead.

Rebecca

Thanks! Yes, I am reading the Bible and praying. Maybe I will add more fasting during this Lenten season. I do somewhat miss worshipping Christ. I mean, don’t get me wrong, as a LDS, I do believe in and accept Christ as my divine Savior (ignoring our differences on the nature of Christ of course ), love reading about Him, we pray in His name, perform our ordinances in His name, etc. Yet, I do miss praying directly to Him, and worshipping Him.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Regardless of where you end up, I pray that this journey be profound and enlightening for you

A book that helped me navigate my own faith journey was “Introduction to The Devout Life” by Francis DeSales. I loved the meditations in it and it helped me REALLY do the “search, ponder, and pray”. I have a lot of love for the LDS church and always will, but my soul just sings when I attend Mass. Knowing that God is present for all to experience is a wonderful reassurance.

Good luck in your searches- please keep us updated and don’t hesitate to PM me if you like

Thanks, I’ll look into that book.

And yes, no matter, what I will always love the LDS Church and LDS people. I don’t think it’s a cult, and generally LDS just want to do what’s right and what we believe is true, and we really do believe that ours is the true Church, that Christ is our Savior, etc. However, at times, I do miss lighting a candle in front of a statue or icon, cleansing myself with holy water when entering the church, singing psalms and all those little devotional things that really seem to connect to ancient Judaism and Christianity. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I love the temple and walking around sacred space, etc., but it’s…not the same. It’s funny, some LDS are very interested in the writings of Margaret Barker, and find parallels between what she says about “temple themes” in Christian worship vs. LDS temple worship, yet her writings are really about Catholic and Orthodox worship!

 

[xixxvmcm85]

This is what it all boiled down to for me:

-evidences for the Book of Mormon-I’ve been reading a few inspirational Christian books, and obviously they all focus on the Bible. The more I read these and look into them, the more I wonder why the Book of Mormon is needed. Also, there is confusion as to where the Book of Mormon actually took place. LDS apologists and scholars disagree on where things are located, and it seems like each position could be valid based on what the person says.

-the Apostasy-this of course is the main issue. Was there really an apostasy of the Church of Jesus Christ? Was it predicted in the Bible? I have seen verses given as evidence of a total apostasy of the ancient Church, yet some seem to be referring to something else (like ancient Israel in the verses about a famine of hearing the word of God). I’m reading this debate between an LDS and a Catholic to see both perspectives.

And along with the Apostasy is the Restoration. Now, LDS apologists and scholars many times refer to various statements by early Christians and/or fringe Christian groups as evidencing LDS beliefs. Yet, there is absolutely no evidence of a single, unified, ancient Church of Jesus Christ that held these beliefs.

Especially the bolded part. In fact, odd you should say it using these words as they’re almost identical to what I posted just last week in the Ex-LDS Conversion thread. Once I lost my testimony of the Book of Mormon the cards came tumbling down. Everything else was inconsequential for the Book of Mormon came first! If Joseph Smith was wrong about the Book of Mormon, how could I even bother believing in Temples or Priesthood Keys?

I can really relate to the whole missing your former religion bit. There have been times, especially around the holidays when I miss my old Ward. Every Christmas and Easter I sit there in the pews by myself around a bunch of Catholics that can’t even bother singing, but who all have their families there with them. I remember feeling the same nostalgia when President Hinckley passed away and the LDS were in the news, too.

Anyway, I’ve read your posts LivingWaters, and I know you have a sharp brain in that head of yours. I’m sure there’s nothing much I could say that would be new to you, so I’ll just offer my prayers.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Thanks all for the prayers and thoughts! I appreciate them.

Now, I don’t really want this thread to be about me (even though, yeah it is), but more about the specific issues that I have with certain LDS beliefs/practices/history. Granted, these could each be a thread in themselves so…we’ll see.

As I mentioned, I am currently reading “An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins”, and also took out “One Nation Under Gods” from the bookshelf. For balance, I’ll also be reading the FARMS/MI reviews of those books.

I’m also finishing up that Pope vs Prophet debate, and will also take a look at “The Continuity of the Catholic Church”.

I’ll also be reading the ECFs as much as I can, specifically the most ancient ones, and any other ancient Christian documents I can find. Specifically, I want to focus on the ante-Nicene Fathers (interestingly, I have an LDS book on the Apostasy by Tad Callister that references writings by the ante-Nicene Fathers). What it really comes down to is, is there evidence in the Bible that an apostasy of Christ’s ancient Church was predicted, that it occurred, etc? What did the earliest Christians believe, and does it match any of the churches today? And of course the whole “infinite regress of Gods”/God the Father was once a man/Heavenly Mother, is an issue too, especially when we look at what the Bible says and what the earliest Christians believed. In my time lurking here, I notice that many of the traditional Christian posters like to emphasize the importance of faith and reason, and that reason is very important, so I’m trying to reasonably go about this.

And let’s say down the road I decide to be Catholic again. I don’t even know how I’d do that, what with being Elders Quorum President. I couldn’t just fade away like some people do, since I’m a leader in my congregation, and I don’t know if I could do that to the people that really believe and would still be there. But we’ll cross that bridge if and when we have to .

 

[LivingWaters7]

This is what it all boiled down to for me:

Especially the bolded part. In fact, odd you should say it using these words as they’re almost identical to what I posted just last week in the Ex-LDS Conversion thread.

That’s probably cuz I read your post in that thread (I’ve been just reading instead of posting lately, for a number of reasons), and subconsciously wrote the same thing you did, since it’s how I feel anyway!

Once I lost my testimony of the Book of Mormon the cards came tumbling down. Everything else was inconsequential for the Book of Mormon came first! If Joseph Smith was wrong about the Book of Mormon, how could I even bother believing in Temples or Priesthood Keys?

I can really relate to the whole missing your former religion bit. There have been times, especially around the holidays when I miss my old Ward. Every Christmas and Easter I sit there in the pews by myself around a bunch of Catholics that can’t even bother singing, but who all have their families there with them. I remember feeling the same nostalgia when President Hinckley passed away and the LDS were in the news, too.

Anyway, I’ve read your posts LivingWaters, and I know you have a sharp brain in that head of yours. I’m sure there’s nothing much I could say that would be new to you, so I’ll just offer my prayers.

Thanks for that, and I appreciate your prayers! And I appreciate anything you have to say, even if I may not be new to me!

Yes, the Book of Mormon is an important part of this. Is it really ancient scripture? If not, where did it come from (I definitely don’t think Joseph Smith could have made it all up by himself)? I’ve read a lot of the LDS apologetics on it, about the Mesoamerican setting, Hebraisms, etc. I think I’ll balance that out with some critical writings on it as well.

 

[Phntm]

I appreciated Frank Sheed’s books (Theology and Sanity and Theology for Beginners) during my journey. Although, I guess I read them in the wrong order, I found if you read Theology and Sanity first, you won’t need to read the for Beginners.

I have to agree with TruthSeeker, I found as I dug into mormon apologetics that I was disappointed. This was difficult at that point in my journey. I had already drifted pretty far from the religion, but that was nearly the nail in the coffin.

God Bless

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Yes, the Book of Mormon is an important part of this. Is it really ancient scripture? If not, where did it come from (I definitely don’t think Joseph Smith could have made it all up by himself)? I’ve read a lot of the LDS apologetics on it, about the Mesoamerican setting, Hebraisms, etc. I think I’ll balance that out with some critical writings on it as well.

With due respect, does it really matter where it came from if it isn’t scripture? I guess I can understand in an academic sort of way why the question may be interesting, but I thought your principal concern here was to test what the LDS Church says about herself? In this case I’d think what’s most pressing is simply seeing if the Book of Mormon can stand up to scrutiny as the kind of literature it purports to be.

As far as trying to hone in on Apostolic and early Patristic beliefs, I’d recommend finding “A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs” by David W. Bercot. It’s formatted as a dictionary, so it’s not something you’ll want to sit down and read cover to cover. I have found that it came in quite handy as a reference tool to get myself started whenever I wanted to delve into a specific kind of belief. I could look up, for example, ‘Eucharist’, and find 30 or so quotes from up until the late 3rd century and the source from whence they came. After that I could exercise a little google fu in finding exegetical works concerning the quotes.

Thanks for pointing out that “Pope or Prophet” online debate. I just started thumbing through it and it looks pretty heavy with Patristic writing.

 

[Phntm]

With due respect, does it really matter where it came from if it isn’t scripture? I guess I can understand in an academic sort of way why the question may be interesting, but I thought your principal concern here was to test what the LDS Church says about herself? In this case I’d think what’s most pressing is simply seeing if the Book of Mormon can stand up to scrutiny as the kind of literature it purports to be.

As far as trying to hone in on Apostolic and early Patristic beliefs, I’d recommend finding “A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs” by David W. Bercot. It’s formatted as a dictionary, so it’s not something you’ll want to sit down and read cover to cover. I have found that it came in quite handy as a reference tool to get myself started whenever I wanted to delve into a specific kind of belief. I could look up, for example, ‘Eucharist’, and find 30 or so quotes from up until the late 3rd century and the source from whence they came. After that I could exercise a little google fu in finding exegetical works concerning the quotes.

Thanks for pointing out that “Pope or Prophet” online debate. I just started thumbing through it and it looks pretty heavy with Patristic writing.

Maybe also look into “The Fathers Know Best” by Jimmy Akin. Takes a bunch of common beliefs and/or misconceptions and sees what the ECFs might have had to say about them. Yeah, potentially Catholic-centric, but should be able to provide a similar to xixxvmcm85’s above but from the ECFs.

 

[Porknpie]

And let’s say down the road I decide to be Catholic again. I don’t even know how I’d do that, what with being Elders Quorum President. I couldn’t just fade away like some people do, since I’m a leader in my congregation, and I don’t know if I could do that to the people that really believe and would still be there. But we’ll cross that bridge if and when we have to .

LW,

A big congratulations.

Myself and I know others have prayed for you individually and for Mormons in general (interesting what you learn when private messaging others). Jesus says to follow him, even at the expense of ones family. Your parish is family in a sense of the word. You really have to put Christ first. He may very well be using you as a witness to others and over time, others will inquire about your journey and perhaps follow you.

My recommendation would be for you to contact your local Catholic Church and speak to a Priest. They will be delighted to speak with you. They gave their life to Christ and his Church to help all come to Christ and heed his call. Understand the Priest is there to help you understand the Church teachings…to help you discern…reflect…understand…milk and meat…with no pressure to join. I should note that Catholic Churches have a formal education and initiation program called RCIA…Rite for Christian Initiation of Adults. RCIA starts in August with meetings weekly with candidates entering the Church at Easter.

Also recommend the audio catechism below, especially if you have a commute or enjoy listening as a learning type.

Pork

 

[TexanKnight]

Thanks all for the prayers and thoughts! I appreciate them.

Now, I don’t really want this thread to be about me (even though, yeah it is), but more about the specific issues that I have with certain LDS beliefs/practices/history. Granted, these could each be a thread in themselves so…we’ll see.

As I mentioned, I am currently reading “An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins”, and also took out “One Nation Under Gods” from the bookshelf. For balance, I’ll also be reading the FARMS/MI reviews of those books.

I’m also finishing up that Pope vs Prophet debate, and will also take a look at “The Continuity of the Catholic Church”.

I’ll also be reading the ECFs as much as I can, specifically the most ancient ones, and any other ancient Christian documents I can find. Specifically, I want to focus on the ante-Nicene Fathers (interestingly, I have an LDS book on the Apostasy by Tad Callister that references writings by the ante-Nicene Fathers). What it really comes down to is, is there evidence in the Bible that an apostasy of Christ’s ancient Church was predicted, that it occurred, etc? What did the earliest Christians believe, and does it match any of the churches today? And of course the whole “infinite regress of Gods”/God the Father was once a man/Heavenly Mother, is an issue too, especially when we look at what the Bible says and what the earliest Christians believed. In my time lurking here, I notice that many of the traditional Christian posters like to emphasize the importance of faith and reason, and that reason is very important, so I’m trying to reasonably go about this.

And let’s say down the road I decide to be Catholic again. I don’t even know how I’d do that, what with being Elders Quorum President. I couldn’t just fade away like some people do, since I’m a leader in my congregation, and I don’t know if I could do that to the people that really believe and would still be there. But we’ll cross that bridge if and when we have to .

Been there. I am, by nature, a leader. I was an officer in the Army, am an officer in the Guard, am a managing attorney, was on city council. I do not say this to show my resume, but to show that we may have similar natures.

One of the things I did was become a Lector and a Eucharistic Minister. I got involved with Knight of Columbus. There are plenty of ways not to fade away.

As to your friends, etc…you can be a great influence on them. People who looked up to you might ask questions.

Good books, by the way…I read those, too…only years after I left the Church.

 

[mountee]

Threads like this are so inspiring to me but they also really humble me. The amount of information that so many of you seem to have about the Catholic faith make me ashamed of how much I don’t know. I have learned quite a bit with this thread, thanks to all of you who have taken the time to post.

 

[GaryTaylor]

The amount of information

Fast Track …EWTN.