Consolidation of powers: a step towards Fascism?

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hasikelee

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I was “hanging out” with some students after class and happened to over hear a few passionate people talking about the consolidation of executive powers our country has experienced during the last two presidential terms. Their conclusion was that our country is now vulnerable to a new leader taking over and essentially ruling America.

This was my holocaust class, so it was in the context of Hitler. The students discussing this seemed to have some logical elements to their arguments. I know this is similar to what happened when Hitler was able to gain power.

Basically, the premise goes that if a person were able to be elected because of the novelty of promoting a soft form of socialism and change, then once that person was in power, they could simply declare a state of emergency or a state of war and take over indefinitely.

Now, I’m not trying to be conspirational here, but I am curious about the possibility of this happening. The students discussing this weren’t party-specific, just talking about how it is possible.
 
Go research what fascist believe in and what the Nazi’s practiced. Once you have done that, go start researching what each political party in the country believes.
 
hasikelee said:
I was “hanging out” with some students after class and happened to over hear a few passionate people talking about the consolidation of executive powers our country has experienced during the last two presidential terms. Their conclusion was that our country is now vulnerable to a new leader taking over and essentially ruling America.

This was my holocaust class, so it was in the context of Hitler. The students discussing this seemed to have some logical elements to their arguments. I know this is similar to what happened when Hitler was able to gain power.

Basically, the premise goes that if a person were able to be elected because of the novelty of promoting a soft form of socialism and change, then once that person was in power, they could simply declare a state of emergency or a state of war and take over indefinitely.

Now, I’m not trying to be conspirational here, but I am curious about the possibility of this happening. The students discussing this weren’t party-specific, just talking about how it is possible.
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Possible, it’s also possible the libertarians will tkae over
 
wabrams said:
Go research what fascist believe in and what the Nazi’s practiced. Once you have done that, go start researching what each political party in the country believes.
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The Nazis were not the only facists. I belive that facism refers to a type of government where all things are consolidated, not to a political party type of platform/belief system.
 
Swan said:
The Nazis were not the only facists. I belive that facism refers to a type of government where all things are consolidated, not to a political party type of platform/belief system.
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Correct, but they are the best examples of Fascist.
 
hasikelee said:
I was “hanging out” with some students after class and happened to over hear a few passionate people talking about the consolidation of executive powers our country has experienced during the last two presidential terms. Their conclusion was that our country is now vulnerable to a new leader taking over and essentially ruling America.

This was my holocaust class, so it was in the context of Hitler. The students discussing this seemed to have some logical elements to their arguments. I know this is similar to what happened when Hitler was able to gain power.

Basically, the premise goes that if a person were able to be elected because of the novelty of promoting a soft form of socialism and change, then once that person was in power, they could simply declare a state of emergency or a state of war and take over indefinitely.

Now, I’m not trying to be conspirational here, but I am curious about the possibility of this happening. The students discussing this weren’t party-specific, just talking about how it is possible.
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It’s very possible. That’s why we need to hang on tight to all the freedoms we have, especially the right to privacy (that was this zone people used to put very personal informaion in and not offer it to everyone they meet. It was a long time ago.)
 
What “consolidation of powers” are you referring to? Can you provide a list, please, along with a reference to the congressional legislation that authorized them. Reference to Supreme Court decisions upholding them would be useful too.

(I guess I have been asleep for 7 years. Well, I did quit watching TV news a while back.).
 
Fascism is turning to the state for the solution to all human problems. The fascist state attempts to replace God and family. It also involves a collectivist approach to govenment and economics. Jonah Goldberg has a best selling book entitled “Liberal Facism” on the subject. Goldberg convincingly traces the lineage of Fascism from the French Revolution, Marx, Hegel, Bismarck, the Progressive movement in America and Great Britain, Wilson, FDR, the Politics of Meaning, Globalism and other current aberrations. All of these incorporate a socialist core and a strong tendency to efface human freedom. Fascism is the worship of the State. I don’t see Fascism in the consolidation of various executive agencies as much as I would in the corruption of the balance of powers between the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of our government. Put not your faith in princes.
 
hasikelee said:
I was “hanging out” with some students after class and happened to over hear a few passionate people talking about the consolidation of executive powers our country has experienced during the last two presidential terms. Their conclusion was that our country is now vulnerable to a new leader taking over and essentially ruling America.

This was my holocaust class, so it was in the context of Hitler. The students discussing this seemed to have some logical elements to their arguments. I know this is similar to what happened when Hitler was able to gain power.

Basically, the premise goes that if a person were able to be elected because of the novelty of promoting a soft form of socialism and change, then once that person was in power, they could simply declare a state of emergency or a state of war and take over indefinitely.

Now, I’m not trying to be conspirational here, but I am curious about the possibility of this happening. The students discussing this weren’t party-specific, just talking about how it is possible.
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In case you didn’t want to read all this, I’ll summarize.

Bush=Hitler.

My word, what an original thought!

Not to mention useful, constructive, and insightful.
:rolleyes:
 
I am currently reading Jonah Goldberg’s book Liberal Fascism, and I recommend it!
 
Now, I’ve heard this a lot and I haven’t formed an opinion on it. I am just searching and trying to get an idea of what is going on.

Do you think the current presidential party has taken these steps of executive consolidation as a direct form of Fascism/control?

Right now, I am still searching for that sign of deliberate malice. I am stuck so far on a vague feeling that this happened due to short-sightedness, and that we are now going to face horrible consequences from the new president.
 
hasikelee said:
Now, I’ve heard this a lot and I haven’t formed an opinion on it. I am just searching and trying to get an idea of what is going on.
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I dislike the Bush addministration, however he is not compariable to Hitler.
I guess the stance that Bush=Hitler is an allusion to his actions in the Middle East?
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No, it refers to Hitler being democratically elected and then establishing a dictatorship
Do you think the current presidential party has taken these steps of executive consolidation as a direct form of Fascism/control?
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**** Cheney was part of the Nixon administration, he’s long wanted to increase execustive power and is not using the “war on terror” as an oppertunity to increase executive power, however I think it’s two far to say he wants a fasciest government.
Right now, I am still searching for that sign of deliberate malice. I am stuck so far on a vague feeling that this happened due to short-sightedness, and that we are now going to face horrible consequences from the new president.
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Signing statements are a big deal right now, get off the internet and read books/acadamic journals if you want to understand things.

Look at William F. Buckely and Noam Chomsky
 
IvanKaramozov said:
I dislike the Bush addministration, however he is not compariable to Hitler.

No, it refers to Hitler being democratically elected and then establishing a dictatorship

**** Cheney was part of the Nixon administration, he’s long wanted to increase execustive power and is not using the “war on terror” as an oppertunity to increase executive power, however I think it’s two far to say he wants a fasciest government.

Signing statements are a big deal right now, get off the internet and read books/acadamic journals if you want to understand things.

Look at William F. Buckely and Noam Chomsky
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You know, I hear that part about Cheney a lot, and I was wondering why he wanted to do this. Has he written on this at all?

It sounds as if we are in some agreement… so far as I can tell, I don’t think these people had a definite idea of becoming fascist or trying to take over America. But, my original post was dealing mainly with the possible consequences of their changes when a new leader is elected.
 
I found the below at the Free Online Dictionary (emphasis mine):

Fascism
a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

*Noun 1. fascism - a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism) *
 
hasikelee said:
You know, I hear that part about Cheney a lot, and I was wondering why he wanted to do this. Has he written on this at all?
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I’m not a poly sci major so I’m not the most qualified persone to answer that, from what I understand it is something like Plato.

After Plato say Socrates put to death by Athenian democracy he became distrustfull of democracy beleiving it to be mob government, I think Cheney is kind of like this, so far as I’ve noticed neo-conservatives seem intent generally on emphasising executive power, I’ve always been under the impression that Cheney’s experience seeing Nixon being taken down by congress led him to be even more determined to work to expand executive power.

I don’t know of anything in popular litt that Cheney has ever written, you may be able to find memo’s or something through archives in the State department, like declassified memos and such?

I have no idea where to get those however(try their websight perhapse)

though I doubt he’d come out and say that’s what he wants, he’s kind of a secretive fellow, actually, go to Fora TV(opnline) and serch his name, he gave a speech for them once I think
It sounds as if we are in some agreement… so far as I can tell, I don’t think these people had a definite idea of becoming fascist or trying to take over America. But, my original post was dealing mainly with the possible consequences of their changes when a new leader is elected.
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Well, America naturally flows back and forth, and the slate(DON"T MENTION CANNIDATES NAMES) is decisively tilted to the left this election, and the democrates are, as a worst case scinerio, predicted to pick up three senate seats, giving them a pragmatic 56 seat majority(55 on Iraq, I counted two indipendents who go liberal, but Liberman is a Hawk).

So, I would expect the balance of power to swing to the congress somewhat after Bush.

I’d really encourage you to look at Chomsky and Buckely, Chomsky is a very radical leftist, and Buckely is one of the founders of neo conservativism, both were(and are for Chomsky, he’s still alive) brilliant thinkers, who were two of the most substantive and penetrating thinkers of our times.

Look at the documentry “Buying the War” from PBS, very frightining on how the Administration used the press to go to war.
 
Hello! It’s old Bill again: We speak of Liberalism as if opposed to Fascism without defining either. The definitions of certain political labels have changed during the beginning of the Twentieth Century. Liberalism used to mean an individualist philosophy as contemplated during the Eighteenth Century by such as Locke and Smith with emphasis upon limited and popular government. Modern Conservatism retains more than a modicum of these principles tempered by Judeo-Christian traditions and belief. (Taking their ideas to an extreme but without such traditional leaven are the Libertarians.) Those who affect to call themselves Liberals today are really Progressives and potentially, Totalitarians and incipient F:D ascists. The early Twentieth Century Progressives dropped that appellation after it had become tainted with the Eugenic Movement, the civil rights abuses of the Wilson Administration and similar embarrassments. Beware the “Politics of Meaning”. Beware the “Audacity of Hope”. "Beware the “New World Order”. Beware them as you might well have bewared “Strength through Joy” Happy St. Patrick’s Day!
 
I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said, “when fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.” 😦
 
Swan said:
I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said, “when fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.” 😦
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Deuced clever of him!!

Thomas Jefferson died on 4 July 1826.

Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini founded the Partitio Nazionale Fascista in 1919.
 
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