Constantine doesnt know

[jersen05]

My CoC friend showed me an issue of their pasugo saying that Constantine is the one who introduced the trinity doctrine and he doesn’t even know about the theology. Constantine doesnt care about religion, he cared about making peace in his land. (A Short History of Christian Doctrine: From the First Century to the Present, p.51) at this article also, Constantine just forced the Bishops to allow his doctrine about the trinity.

 

[MarkBrown]

The article is wrong. Tertullian is given credit for first teaching the doctrine in the 3rd Century. Though Theophilus is thought by some to be teaching on it in 170. Justin, Origen and others in teaching on Christology touch on the 3 in 1.

The reason the Council of Nicea was called was over doctrine, especially subordinationism and trinitartianism would be discussed. Constantine called the council is a given. He forced the Bishops to do his bidding is a big stretch. Though the doctrine of the Trinity was approved, Arianism (which supported the subordination of Christ to God) was a main belief of the Church till Constantinople 381 finally settled everything.

I have a question. Is it the position of COC that there is not a Trinity?

Blessings

 

[jersen05]

uhm… i dont understand ur post? MarkBrown…Sorry… Can you explain it to me a little more?

 

[NotWorthy]

uhm… i dont understand ur post? MarkBrown…Sorry… Can you explain it to me a little more?

Constantine called the council of Nicea is correct. But Constantine leaned toward Arianism, which would defuse Trinitarianism. He wished the council to decide one way or another in order to maintain peace throughout the Christian sect.

Your friends hypothesis does not stand on its own.

 

[MarkBrown]

uhm… i dont understand ur post? MarkBrown…Sorry… Can you explain it to me a little more?

Forgive me for not being clear. I had just returned from seminary class.

Constantine did call the council. The council did discuss and come
to an agreement on the Trinity. The Trinity was discussed well before
the council, some 1-200 years before the council.

Though the Council of Nicea and then Constantinople decided the Trinity,
Constantine and the majority of the church believe in Arianism, an idea
simply put that places Jesus as a created being and similar to God, but
not God.

Arianism was finally defeated by the great theologian fathers (they help
the Church to understand doctrine) in the Council of Constantinople 381.
Long after Constantine had died. Hence Constantine did not influence
the church or command the church to accept the Trinity.

The claim of your friend and his church falls apart under basic
knowledge of Church history. Just another attack on the
Catholic Church that is unsupportable and rather silly.
The Church which withstood centuries of murder, imprisionment
etc for not accepting cultural beliefs counter to Christianity
is suddenly going to collapse and do what the Emperor said
with out the threat of violence? If we engage our critical
thinking skills this claim suddenly become really really
stupid.

For the record I am an Anglican Deacon.

Blessings

 

[jersen05]

so… Constantine is long dead before the trinity doctrine was finalized?

 

[NotWorthy]

so… Constantine is long dead before the trinity doctrine was finalized?

I don’t think he was still alive at Chalcedon, was he? This is when the Fathers finally hammered out the rest of what is now called the Nicene Creed.

Of course, I think the Filloque was added at Chalcedon and it seems to be a dividing line between the Latin Rite and our Greek Orthodox brothers.

 

[Sunflower15]

I don’t think he was still alive at Chalcedon, was he? This is when the Fathers finally hammered out the rest of what is now called the Nicene Creed.

Of course, I think the Filloque was added at Chalcedon and it seems to be a dividing line between the Latin Rite and our Greek Orthodox brothers.

Ever since my college days, I have tried to understand:

1. How does a theological understanding of the Son as equal co-exist without His action being equal [without the Filioque]? [Something ACTS as it IS by nature]
2. How is it possible for LOVE to go only one way? As in FROM the Father TO the Son – rather than – FROM the Father AND the Son, in reciprocity.

Can someone help me understand this? I don’t mean by this that I’ll drop my beliefs, I just want to understand the reasoning because it just seems extremely illogical and unreasonable to me. There must be something I’m missing…

 

[NHInsider]

so… Constantine is long dead before the trinity doctrine was finalized?

“Finalized” is an awkward word with regard to these definitions. Historically what has happened is that there is no attempt to define a doctrine until “what we’ve always believed” has been challenged. Then there is generally a lengthy back-and-forth while each side attempts to explain their interpretation/position while attacking the position/interpretation of the other side. Eventually a Council is convened (hold that thought) to formally consider (and pray over, one hopes) the various arguments, and a definition is developed and proclaimed. So the date of the “definining” of a doctrine is not the beginning of that doctrine but the closing of debate on the subject. This is true of everything from whether Christian must be circumcised to the Nature of Jesus to the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption.

Constantine’s claim to fame is that he legalized Christianity with the Edict of Milan (313). Constantine was a soldier, not a theologian, so he probably did not make a great of deal of distinction between the Arian and Orthodox expressions of Christology, even when he called the Council of Nicea into session in 325. (Thereby establishing a precedent for secular authorities calling for Councils of the Church.)

The Council of Nicea put together the beginning of the creed that now bears its name, affirmed the God-ness of Jesus (by approving the term theokotos, “God-carrier,” or “Mother of God” for Mary, and condemned Arius. However when Constantine died in 337 the battle between Arians and Catholics was still raging. The Council of Constantinople (381) settled the “definition” of the Holy Spirit and thereby the Trinity, although Arianism remained the most vibrant heresy until the 7th century or so (some would say it still lives . . .)

Arianism held that because God was One, the Son (and later the Holy Spirit) could not be God - so obviously the opposition to that, as defined by the Councils of Nicea and Constantinople together, became the definition of Trinity.

I’m not sure how helpful that is, it’s very much simplified and yet, there is no simple answer!

 

[diggerdomer]

so… Constantine is long dead before the trinity doctrine was finalized?

Yes