Constantine invented Catholicism

[Quaestor]

Constantine did not preside at the council. The Arian heresy affected only the Eastern Churches. What the pope did was to appoint Hosius who was bishop of Cordoba in the province of Hispania as the presiding bishop and appointed two legates to the council. Sylvester suspected Constantine of heresy and chose Hosius as he was less likely to be swayed by the emperor. It is also speculated that Hosius, one his way to the council, went by Rome to receive his instructions from Sylvester.

 

[Quaestor]

It was normal practice at the time for persons to leave their baptisms until close to their death, that way all their sins were forgiven and they would enter heaven without making the customary visit to purgatory. Remember what baptism does, complete forgiveness of ALL sins and wiping away all temporal punishment for these sins.

 

[rcwitness]

That’s not all Baptism does. It makes us members of Christ too. But was it so intentional with him, or was he reluctant to actually become Christian. He wanted to support Christianity, but did he want to actually be one?

 

[setarcos]

Yes, however as I’ve said the councils never really addressed Arianism which brings up some valid points. They merely voted against it. This vote brings us no closer to the truth if its merely based on opinionated political affiliations which, with lack of a definitive rebuttal, seems to be the case. Satan was active from the beginnings of the Church to now. The question becomes what is causing this confusion and doubt and how? Simply perusing the Catholic forums shows that even Catholics themselves are confused about their own doctrines and practices at times. We must believe the good will prevail in the end as Christ tells us but might what it prevails over be the error propagated by the Church herself in some areas of belief which causes nothing but stumbling blocks to some?

 

[Quaestor]

Yes he wanted to become a Christian. It is actually very evidence that he wanted to be of the correct Faith. Remember Arians, in good faith, thought they were Christians. Was Constantine an Arian? in likelihood he was at the beginning. He was baptised by a bishop who was once an Arian.

If Constantine did not care he would not have created laws trying to keep Christians from committing idolatry. For example he enacted a law which forbade Christians from partaking in pagan Roman practices, for which the penalty was death at a time when the cult of the emperor was practiced by the patrician families of Rome. These are the families which held in Rome. Even moving the capital from Rome to Byzantium managed to move the base of influence from the patrician families.

 

[Quaestor]

FYI just to be aware none of the Roman pagans were actually idolaters Roman paganism was a cult not a religion. I use cult here in its latin.old meaning not modern sense of the word.

 

[setarcos]

Let me clarify. Constantine called for and opened the first session of the council. He then presumably gave over to one of his friends, Hosius? possibly, to preside over the procedures of the council. “PAPAL ENCYCLICALS ONLINE” states that it is uncertain who presided over the sessions. Clearly though given the descriptions of Constantine’s entrance into the council he would have been an overbearing presence, one which did participate at times in the discussions and on occasion made insistence on the use of specific terms.

 

[Quaestor]

Hosius was definitely not a friend of the emperor. He was a bishop from hispania. Almost all the great heresies in the first 500 years began in the East.

 

[De_Maria]

If you believe that the OP literally means “invent” as in from nothing that would be silly.

That is exactly what anti-Catholics believe.

You may as well believe that airplane “black boxes” are black if that were the case.

And I guess you don’t believe that the Pope is Catholic.

Really? You want to make a debate point with dumb internet meme sayings?

If one went around taking people at their absolute word then one would be immune to the charms of poetry and much comedy.

If one goes around denying the truth, then one is immune to life and reality.

So no, not avoiding anything - just understanding the question as most normal people would.

On the contrary, all you’re just back peddling because you have been shown to be an anti-Catholic. Because only anti-Catholics believe that Constantine started the Catholic Church.

Nothing I’ve said is particularly controversial for anyone who has formally studied Church History.

Lol! You said that there is some truth that Constantine started the Catholic Church. The only purported students of Church history who make that claim are anti-Catholics.

Nothing me to say really.
God bless.

Yeah, there’s this whole thing about you claiming that Constantine “invented” Catholicism.

There is some truth to it.

All your back peddling and subject changing doesn’t change the fact, that you have made a statement that directly contradicts the Catholic Church.

 

[twf]

It’s all relative… each local diocese is still quite autonomous, operating as a legal corporation in its own right. Rome certainly doesn’t, and never has, micromanaged local Churches. Yet as early as St Ignatius of Antioch (early second century), we have a reference to the “Catholic Church” as the local churches understood themselves to be part of a greater whole. You’re also forgetting that it was during Constantine’s reign that the Council of Nicaea was convened… its canons were considered binding on all local churches.

 

[twf]

Rome’s primacy was acknowledged, but what that precisely meant was debated. Regardless, that the understanding of the papacy developed over time doesn’t mean it wasn’t the Catholic Church in earlier periods.

 

[BlackFriar]

Well when you can find where Jesus said circumcision was not necessary to be his disciple (as did Peter and Paul eventually) please let me know.

 

[BlackFriar]

BlackFriar:

If you believe that the OP literally means “invent” as in from nothing that would be silly.

That is exactly what anti-Catholics believe.

Well there we are.
If you cannot understand the intent of the OPs question that explains the extreme responses my demonising friend.

Like I said:

Nothing more to say really. God bless.

 

[Quaestor]

Remember for Jews the point at which conversion occurs is the mikveh (baptism), circumcision makes you a son of the Law. The Church during the time of the apostles already loosened the requirement that one become a son of the Law, because this is not a requirement only the mikveh is.

 

[hope]

Interesting definition of invent. Although I would have defined create that way. Invent means simply to make up. I have read this many times trying to figure it out what you believe the OP is questioning. Your indication is that you are normal and if it isn’t understood the way you do it isn’t normal? I have studied Church History and I do not come away with the sarcasm that you express. What Jesus taught is no different than what is being taught now. You seem to believe that accidentals make the Church Jesus established to be different. It is not the case. It is not what is essential. You seem t forget that Jesus gave the power to bind and loosen. Therefore, when Peter declared that circumcision was no longer necessary, it was with the authority of Jesus.

 

[BlackFriar]

Not sure what you are saying.
My simple point is that it would be obtuse to believe that the poster means Constantine created the Christian Church from scratch.
Nor is it clear what is meant by “Catholicism”.
Contributers here seem to use the word indiscrimantly with different meanings.

 

[De_Maria]

Well there we are.
If you cannot understand the intent of the OPs question that explains the extreme responses my demonising friend.

I wasn’t talking about the OP, my friend. The OP considers it a myth. I was talking about those who claim that Constantine created the Catholic Church.

Like I said:
Nothing more to say really. God bless.

God bless you, too.

 

[Quaestor]

FYI I am aware that this is a myth. I am trying to trace the origins of the myth ie who or which book began the myth as Catholicism was invented by Constantine. Franz Cumont claimed that Christanity was invented/created by Constantine. Almost all his work was debunked. However some one replaced Christian with Catholic, so I am trying to trace as to who might have originated the lie

 

[lexscripta]

Well, I must respectfully, disagree:

Constantine decreed (March 7, 321) dies Solis—day of the sun, “Sunday”—as the Roman day of rest (Codex Justinianus 3.12.2):

"On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost."

Constantine’s triumphal arch was carefully positioned to align with the colossal statue of Sol by the Colosseum, so that Sol formed the dominant backdrop when seen from the direction of the main approach towards the arch.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its probably a duck.

 

[lexscripta]

Just curious, De_Maria. Do you only accept Encyclicals and internal Catholic Church Documents but no extraneous historical documents as evidence of Catholic Church History?