Consuming unconsecrated hosts broke the Eucharistic fast

  • Thread starter Thread starter JimG
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Off topic, but so glad I am in the dioceses I am. We just received directives for the characteristics of permanent deacons and one of the directives was that they would not ordain anyone over 60. The head of formation said the candidate would have to be extraordinary for him to even consider it. This is mainly because there is concern that the permanent diaconate in the US has become a retirement vocation. In my current class the average age is right around 50 with about 40% under 45. That being said it is not unusual for the average age of a Deacon to be well into their 60s or early 70s (that is the case with most my dioceses current deacons).
It is an interesting phenomenon.

We’ve experienced that there are pitfalls and issues that arise in either direction. Of course, we are nevertheless grateful for the restoration of a married permanent diaconate by all means. But there is the awareness that the criteria established do have their own consequences.
 
I can’t remember the exact number, but I know that when my past parish used to publish the Lenten fast reminders in the bulletin, they would definitely give the age cutoff, “Those over age X are not obligated to fast.”

I seem to recall maybe it was age 65. I presumed this directive came from the diocesan Bishop.
It should reflect both Paenitemini and Canon 1251…Paenitemini itself being adjusted to account for the change in attainment of majority according to the then new Code of Canon Law.

*Can. 1251 Abstinence from eating meat or some other food according to the prescripts of the conference of bishops is to be observed on ,of abstinence binds those who have completed their fourteenth year of age. **The law of fasting, however, binds all those who have attained their majority until the beginning of their sixtieth year. *Nevertheless, pastors of souls and parents are to take care that minors not bound by the law of fast and abstinence are also educated in a genuine sense of penance.
 
It was probably 60 then. Because I’m still nowhere near 60 (though it’s creeping up) and my older relatives and friends are well past 60, I never had much reason to pay much attention to the announcement yet.
 
It was probably 60 then. Because I’m still nowhere near 60 (though it’s creeping up) and my older relatives and friends are well past 60, I never had much reason to pay much attention to the announcement yet.
It is an eccentric formulation, honestly, that many people do not understand.

It would be better rendered for common understanding as “The law of fasting, however, binds all those who have celebrated their 18th birthday until they celebrate their 59th birthday.” One begins one’s 60th year some time on one’s 59th birthday…just as one begins one’s first year the day one is born and completes it when one celebrates their first birthday – or, I suppose, when their parents celebrate it for them…unless the infant is uniquely gifted and self-aware for one year old.
 
I don’t have much to add about what Father Z stated, but this topic has helped me learn new things. I did not realize many Catholic deacons are so elderly. The only Catholic deacon I have met in real life appeared to be in his early 40s at the latest, though I did not ask his age. His “day job” was being a physician, and he still had young children. The age of deacons appears to be yet another aspect of the Catholic church that can differ greatly from place to place.
 
I don’t have much to add about what Father Z stated, but this topic has helped me learn new things. I did not realize many Catholic deacons are so elderly. The only Catholic deacon I have met in real life appeared to be in his early 40s at the latest, though I did not ask his age. His “day job” was being a physician, and he still had young children. The age of deacons appears to be yet another aspect of the Catholic church that can differ greatly from place to place.
I remember the first ordinations of deacons back at the beginning of the 1970s.

The minimum age for permanent deacons was fixed at 35…and, frankly, it was an exciting moment regarding the sacrament of sacred order. It had been contemplated and the Council Fathers approved it. It did not all unfold in the way it was thought back in the 1960s, however.

Among the things that happened was, as the early years passed, we had young deacons whose wives died…in accidents, because of illnesses, diseases and other medical issues, etc. While a married man can be ordained, an ordained man getting married is another matter entirely. The deacons were told in formation that, once ordained, if their wife should pass away, they would be obliged to celibacy since there was no provision for them, as ordained men, to marry.

The reality is – it is one thing to hear it and it is another to actually confront it. These men had the understandable expectation that, being young with young wives, they would not confront the loss of their wives for decades. But that is not how life sometimes happens.

For a number of men who confronted that reality, they petitioned [through their dioceses of incardination] that the Holy See [specifically the Holy Father via the dicastery] for laicisation so they could remarry. This was particularly seen in the case of those with young children, and that presented the Holy Father and the dicastery with a very atypical and problematic situation… It had elements of a very sticky wicket about it.

Often laity think of the process of laicisation relative to priests…but it does happen with deacons and not infrequently. It became an involved issue – more than needs to be discussed here – but there were bishops who decided that the wiser course would be to ordain older men only. It is, in fact, a judgement left to the discretion of the Diocesan Ordinary.

Another problem for the younger men was that they were balancing three very full and demanding responsibilities…their marriage and families [often with young children], their careers [which can be demanding at this time of life], and being an ordained cleric, without benefit of remuneration for what they did as deacons. That can be very stressful.

For some, the burden was more than they…and their wives…anticipated and that created its own set of problems. Which further fueled the move to ordain older men whose children were grown and whose career was either over, in retirement, or at least diminished as they moved toward retirement.

Of course, this brought a different set of problems. The older men may have less stamina and need lighter, even significantly lighter, workloads. For five years or more of study and formation, they may be in active service for only 10 or 15 years…some not even that long should they be hit by a major illness earlier than otherwise might be expected. In any event, it certainly means that one is confronting a much shorter cycle between ordination and retirement.

And, honestly, all this does have an effect on the profile of the vocation, when you move from a preponderance of permanent deacons being ordained from mid 30s forward and serving for a few decades to men in their mid 60s forward who will be in a parish far fewer years…it can cause the diaconate and deacons to be viewed very differently on the part of the lay faithful.

Additionally, there are bishops who establish mandatory retirement for the deacons in a way that was not envisioned in previous decades and that has to figure into the equation in its own way.
 
It is an interesting phenomenon.

We’ve experienced that there are pitfalls and issues that arise in either direction. Of course, we are nevertheless grateful for the restoration of a married permanent diaconate by all means. But there is the awareness that the criteria established do have their own consequences.
I suspect that this will be a short term thing in my diocese to get a broader range of men. Since my diocese only ordains one class every 4 years they were finding that each new class was essentially replacing the class 8 years prior; it simply wasn’t sustainable to continue down that path. When I was approached at 39 I laughed it off saying I was too young by about 20 years. Even now most people assume I am a late vocation to the priesthood.

As you mention, there are challenges regardless if you take men at 35, 45, 55, or 65. Most of that has to do with permanent deacons having one foot in the clerical world and one in the secular world. Having to balance those demands are challenging at any age. We are blessed to have a Director of Diaconal Ministry that works closely with the Bishop and VF for each deanery to help the parishes and deacons to balance those demands; even if it’s to remind a deacon that it is okay to say no to the 40th new request.

As the restoration matures I would guess there will be more recognition that the diaconate is a true vocation and thereby a greater awareness of how to foster the vocation at all stages of a man’s life. What we are finding is that it is beneficial to have men of various ages and states. Now that doesn’t address your statement about “young” deacons that lose their wives, but it is one reason our formation includes fostering authentic male friendships so that none of us feel alone if our wives predecease us. It still doesn’t replace ones wife, but it is meant to address the fact that most men have fewer and fewer friends as they age and often only have their wife as emotional support.
 
I suspect that this will be a short term thing in my diocese to get a broader range of men. Since my diocese only ordains one class every 4 years they were finding that each new class was essentially replacing the class 8 years prior; it simply wasn’t sustainable to continue down that path. When I was approached at 39 I laughed it off saying I was too young by about 20 years. Even now most people assume I am a late vocation to the priesthood.

As you mention, there are challenges regardless if you take men at 35, 45, 55, or 65. Most of that has to do with permanent deacons having one foot in the clerical world and one in the secular world. Having to balance those demands are challenging at any age. We are blessed to have a Director of Diaconal Ministry that works closely with the Bishop and VF for each deanery to help the parishes and deacons to balance those demands; even if it’s to remind a deacon that it is okay to say no to the 40th new request.

As the restoration matures I would guess there will be more recognition that the diaconate is a true vocation and thereby a greater awareness of how to foster the vocation at all stages of a man’s life. What we are finding is that it is beneficial to have men of various ages and states. Now that doesn’t address your statement about “young” deacons that lose their wives, but it is one reason our formation includes fostering authentic male friendships so that none of us feel alone if our wives predecease us. It still doesn’t replace ones wife, but it is meant to address the fact that most men have fewer and fewer friends as they age and often only have their wife as emotional support.
Very well and thoughtfully written.

Personally, I have felt the shift to only older men was an over-correction.

I agree with you that it is a vocation, which can be received/perceived at any age – and it has to be fostered thoughtfully.

I also agree it is important that we have a diversity of age and background and experiences in the permanent diaconate in every diocese. Not only because such enriches the diocese in itself but also because of how that models the diaconate to that Particular Church.
 
Somebody feel free to jump in and correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the Eucharistic Fast separate and apart from the Good Friday and Ash Wednesday fasts?

I thought that the rule regarding fasting and abstinence was tied to those days (I know, I know, there used to be more, my now-departed grandparents remembered when one fasted year round on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays but that fast for Wednesdays and Saturdays involved eating one large meal and two ‘collations’, and only one of the meals could have meat in it (outside of Lent and the Advent fasts), the ‘fast and abstinence days’ as we know them now.

But the whole thing about not being bound for fasting beyond the start of the 60th year, I thought, related only to those two fast days, and NOT to the Eucharistic fast, which AFAIK is one hour (again, my grandparents told us of fasting from midnight) before communion. And one is NOT (AFAIK) excused from THAT Eucharistic fast when one is 59 and older. Am I right?
 
Somebody feel free to jump in and correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the Eucharistic Fast separate and apart from the Good Friday and Ash Wednesday fasts?

I thought that the rule regarding fasting and abstinence was tied to those days (I know, I know, there used to be more, my now-departed grandparents remembered when one fasted year round on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays but that fast for Wednesdays and Saturdays involved eating one large meal and two ‘collations’, and only one of the meals could have meat in it (outside of Lent and the Advent fasts), the ‘fast and abstinence days’ as we know them now.

But the whole thing about not being bound for fasting beyond the start of the 60th year, I thought, related only to those two fast days, and NOT to the Eucharistic fast, which AFAIK is one hour (again, my grandparents told us of fasting from midnight) before communion. And one is NOT (AFAIK) excused from THAT Eucharistic fast when one is 59 and older. Am I right?
You are right. I’m 63 and still bound by the Communion fast. I mean, it’s an hour. Even a diabetic is unlikely to be unable to go an hour without eating and drinking, in many cases that simply means you eat before you leave the house and not again until 75 minutes later once you’ve received Communion.

You don’t need to maintain the fast if you need to take medication or are elderly and unable to.
 
You are right. I’m 63 and still bound by the Communion fast. I mean, it’s an hour. Even a diabetic is unlikely to be unable to go an hour without eating and drinking, in many cases that simply means you eat before you leave the house and not again until 75 minutes later once you’ve received Communion.

You don’t need to maintain the fast if you need to take medication or are elderly and unable to.
I haven’t heard from you in a long time and hope everything is well.

I agree with your points.
 
I haven’t heard from you in a long time and hope everything is well.

I agree with your points.
Yes, thank you, all is well. Hubby and I were on an extended holiday, visiting family and camping in locations where there was little or no internet access. I wasn’t on this site much all summer.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top