Consupiscense, Same sex Attraction, Aquinas

[Dakota_Roberts]

Dakota,

What about dog racing? Do they really use a rabbit?

Never seen a dog race other than the Iditarod and there were no rabbits

Someone needs to challenge the continual postings of a long time Christian homosexual member of this forum with talent in writing good prose and who has justified in intellectualized terms the inevitability, even the rightful physical expression of homosexual love on a committed basis.

The opening post by Coptic has encapsulated yet another set of meant-to-persuade provocative statements of that member from a current related thread.

Coptic does not have a horse in this race? I don’t think you mean to say that celibate homosexuals are the only ones who have much to say about sexually active homosexuals. Heterosexuals find themselves in these debates because of the movement that active homosexuals are taking society – towards SS"M" and normalization of homosexual acts – not necessarily because of bigotry, discrimination, or “homophobia,” which come handy but untrue as debate-ending accusations.
,

Deo Volente?

Okay, you may have noticed that I have been a lot less active recently so I haven’t seen those threads.

I didn’t mean to say that.

Wow,
By all means this is bigotry, discrimination, and homophobia. CopticChristian and others start threads of this nature to obtain some sick sense of “I am better than you because of the nature of your sins” in their’s and other like minded peoples brains. AND then use my Church, that I have loved and been a part of since Baptism to prop up their homophobic and bigoted stances. How dare they. God loves me (Gay) as much as you and thes rest of his children. To use the bible and the Church as a weapon of hate is horrible. Talk about sin… Oh, and I do have a horse in the race…
The truth is that you can argue these points forever, but, this is a generational issue… The young people, that have gay and lesbian friends. The kids have gay or lesbian Aunts and Uncles that they love who ARE NOT hiding from your hateful words and actions anymore. When your generation dies and your homophobia with it the issue of Homosexuality will die on the same rubbage heap as Nazism, Communism and Racism… all it takes is time.

I think you are overreacting

 

[Deo_Volente]

Grace & Peace!

Homosexuals discuss concupiscence and ask the following questions.

My answer is that every thought is oriented towards an act. I think of murder. Murder completed is a sin. I am a man. I think of desire of a man and completion of that act in sodomy. Sodomy is inherently evil.

How do others approach this?

Coptic, you have a habit of quoting me out of context and not attributing the quotations. Moreover, an emerging pattern is concerning to me: when you say “homosexuals” in this thread, do you just mean me? Is it generally your custom to attribute your perception of an individual to your perception of a group to which that individual may belong and/or vice versa?

Notwithstanding, with all of this quoting, I wonder why you haven’t bothered to quote my three-part post from the “Living as a Gay Catholic Man” thread (now closed) which deals precisely with concupiscence and desire oriented to act. Here are the three parts: PART 1; PART 2; PART 3.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!

 

[CopticChristian]

Grace & Peace!

Coptic, you have a habit of quoting me out of context and not attributing the quotations. Moreover, an emerging pattern is concerning to me: when you say “homosexuals” in this thread, do you just mean me? Is it generally your custom to attribute your perception of an individual to your perception of a group to which that individual may belong and/or vice versa?

Notwithstanding, with all of this quoting, I wonder why you haven’t bothered to quote my three-part post from the “Living as a Gay Catholic Man” thread (now closed) which deals precisely with concupiscence and desire oriented to act. Here are the three parts: PART 1; PART 2; PART 3.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!

Mark,

This is nice of you to post. Is it your opinion that…

a sodomite relationship is not sin?

 

[mleonetti1991]

You have noticed that chaste gays can be rather insistent on distinguishing homosexuality and homosexual acts, this is because I/we/they understand that the attractions affect more than just sexuality, it has a marked effect on everyday interpersonal interactions. To believe that the attractions in itself are entirely a moral evil would be to give into the heresy of total depravity.
To visualize this think of the good a person does as a nice glass of wine, for a person with these attractions they affect why they were done on a conscious or subconscious level so think of these as a few drops, now if these attractions are a moral evil then it is effectively a poison. What you have is a glass of nice wine with a few drops of poison in it, while only the poison is poison and the nice wine is nice wine not poison the glass of wine is effectively poisoned. Yes, that would mean that even the good a homosexual person does is poisoned.

The intriguing philosophical question is since sins are a corruption of virtues is homosexuality a corruption of heterosexual is it the corruption of something else.

I am both scrupulous/OCD and same-sex attracted, so help me with this one.

I struggle with making sure that I live a chaste life all the time, and I have people whom I have been friends with since I was in grade school.

I had an OCD thought that said that I have a sexual attraction to a friend of mine (same sex), and I said I do not, and still think I do not.

But as I was saying that to ward off the scrupulous/Obsessive Compulsive habits,an unwanted image of my friend popped into my mind, and i felt something in my genital area.

However it passed when I fought that impure thought off.

Does that mean that after seven years of being friends with this person in a platonic way, I have a sexual attraction? I do not think so.

But I am scrupulous about this excerpt in the examination of conscience in the back of my missal:

"Do I realize I might have already have been committing a sin by lacing myself in a proximate occasion of sin, such as sharing a room with a person, or being alone with such a person whom I find sexually attractive?

“Do I have friendships that are habitual occasions for sexual sins? Am I prepared to end them?”

Examinations of conscience have not been helpful in the past because i think I have committed a mortal sin, when I really have not done such. Even when I know that I am lacking one of the three parts of a mortal sin, my OCD says I have “feigned ignorance,” which would cause me to check (compulsion)

In none of the activities my friend and I do, (playing music, watching movies, going for a bike ride, walking) are there any sexual attractions to him. I know he is going out with someone of the opposite sex, and I wouldn’t do anything. I have no desire to do anything sexual with him.

But something inside me (my conscience, OCD, scrupolosity) is saying that if I hang with him tonight, I will be committing a sin.

Your thoughts and prayers, please.

A concerned and scrupulous Catholic

 

[mleonetti1991]

You have noticed that chaste gays can be rather insistent on distinguishing homosexuality and homosexual acts, this is because I/we/they understand that the attractions affect more than just sexuality, it has a marked effect on everyday interpersonal interactions. To believe that the attractions in itself are entirely a moral evil would be to give into the heresy of total depravity.
To visualize this think of the good a person does as a nice glass of wine, for a person with these attractions they affect why they were done on a conscious or subconscious level so think of these as a few drops, now if these attractions are a moral evil then it is effectively a poison. What you have is a glass of nice wine with a few drops of poison in it, while only the poison is poison and the nice wine is nice wine not poison the glass of wine is effectively poisoned. Yes, that would mean that even the good a homosexual person does is poisoned.

The intriguing philosophical question is since sins are a corruption of virtues is homosexuality a corruption of heterosexual is it the corruption of something else.

Ok I accidently deleted my last post, but instead of writing the whole post again, let me just say the basics:

• I am scrupulous/have OCD, and am sexually confused
• I struggled with sexual sins in the past, but since I came back to the church (Thank God), I have suffered scrupulosity and obsessive thoughts in terms of sexuality
• I had an obsessive thought that said that I have a. sexual attraction to a friend of mine
• As I was trying to ward off this thought, an unwanted image of my friend (same sex) popped into my head, and I had a minor feeling in my genital area (not a full erection)
• I fought this feeling off instead of entertaining it and I DID NOT WANT TO HAVE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
• I do not think I have a sexual attraction because this was unwanted, and the hobbies my friend and I do (play music, make films, etc) are not proximate occasions of sin for me

But according to an Examination of Conscience there are two things I am scrupulous about:

• Did I realize that I might already have been committing a sin by placing myself in a proximate occasion of sin, such as sharing a room with a person I find sexually attractive, or being alone with such a person in circumstances that could lead to sin?
• Do I have friendships that are habitual occasions of sexual sins? Am I prepared to end them?

So I do not know what to do. My friend is straight. He knows about my sexual confusion. Plus he has a girlfriend whom he wants to marry, and I do not at all want to do anything sexual with him, regardless of that.

Please help me and pray for me.

Matt

 

[CopticChristian]

Ok I accidently deleted my last post, but instead of writing the whole post again, let me just say the basics:

• I am scrupulous/have OCD, and am sexually confused
• I struggled with sexual sins in the past, but since I came back to the church (Thank God), I have suffered scrupulosity and obsessive thoughts in terms of sexuality
• I had an obsessive thought that said that I have a. sexual attraction to a friend of mine
• As I was trying to ward off this thought, an unwanted image of my friend (same sex) popped into my head, and I had a minor feeling in my genital area (not a full erection)
• I fought this feeling off instead of entertaining it and I DID NOT WANT TO HAVE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
• I do not think I have a sexual attraction because this was unwanted, and the hobbies my friend and I do (play music, make films, etc) are not proximate occasions of sin for me

But according to an Examination of Conscience there are two things I am scrupulous about:

• Did I realize that I might already have been committing a sin by placing myself in a proximate occasion of sin, such as sharing a room with a person I find sexually attractive, or being alone with such a person in circumstances that could lead to sin?
• Do I have friendships that are habitual occasions of sexual sins? Am I prepared to end them?

So I do not know what to do. My friend is straight. He knows about my sexual confusion. Plus he has a girlfriend whom he wants to marry, and I do not at all want to do anything sexual with him, regardless of that.

Please help me and pray for me.

Matt

Matt,

I think too much time is spent on warding off experiences and feelings. I believe that to experience them and allow them to pass is more productive.

I often hear people tell me of their sadness, depression and the like…and it is all about their thinking about it. The solution…accept the feeling as a catalyst for change. How do you do it?

Easy. When any feeling comes…it is not sin…let the feeling come, step outside yourself and observe it and recognize that you are not participating if you observe. While in observation you can question your motive, desires to maintain that feeling and as you do all of this you will find that the feeling passes…and you don’t have to suppress it…you just observe it and contemplate it for what it is…if you don’t like it…if you don’t want it…recognize that and accept that you have chosen not to react and then the feeling is just a feeling and since you are observing it…it is not sin…feelings come and go and linger when you try to suppress rather than observe…

 

[speakttruth]

::

Haven’t we discussed this before? The short answer is that same sex attraction is disordered because God made us male and female, he did not create us male and male or female and female. Men and women were created with attraction for each other so they would increase multiply.

As to your second question. Attraction of either spouce to someone not their spouce is a result of concupiscence. It is a natural disorder which we have to struggle against by avoiding all those people and things which might be an occasion of sin.

I haven’t studied Thomas on these issues but am certain he would agree.
Also, see the catechism.

I don’t know why you seem so interested in these questions I hope you aren’t involved in something that is not good for you.

Amen!

 

[Daedelus76]

Throughout the animal kingdom, sex has only one purpose: to make babies. This is what makes homosexual sex disordered. Since it cannot ever produce a baby, it is out of the proper order of things.
.

Sex in many species is also about bonding or dominance, not just making babies. Too bad all those old Schoolmen didn’t really know about zoology or ethology, maybe they wouldn’t have divised such ridiculous premises for “natural law” ethics.

 

[CopticChristian]

Sex in many species is also about bonding or dominance, not just making babies. Too bad all those old Schoolmen didn’t really know about zoology or ethology, maybe they wouldn’t have divised such ridiculous premises for “natural law” ethics.

Daed,

As a person with a BS in Zoology, provide me the insight you gained and where you gained the insight as to what species sex is about bonding and dominance.