Contemplating Islam

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but i didn’t say muslims in my example , i just said another nation

i just wanna to tell you that our religion and our quran is talking about every aspect in our life , it contain instructions in the time of war and it contain instructions in the time of peace
however we have to follow the intstructions of God if the war imposed upon us
but be sure that i agree with you that in the situation of war we will not give our enemy our cheek 😃
Yes, I know that Islam dictates every aspect of your lives. You don’t even have to think or make any decisions for yourselves, you just do everything the way Muhammad did it! 😃

Tell me, does that make sense to you?

Vickie
 
Most of ‘us people’ hate Islam because of the contents of its teachings and that the prophet Muhammed was such a despicable character. When its teachings call us apes and pigs to dehumanize people so it can say we are to be killed or subjugated, I think that is enough for me to pass and to make sure others know what it teaches. When all the wars in this world involves Muslims attacking others of any and all religions, and when non-Muslims in Muslim lands are persecuted daily, I would say there is something totally wrong with this religion. And lastly when a religion sanctions deception, that is beyond the pale. But it is to be expected because the truth about Islam would probably mean that it would be banned in most areas where it slithers in under the disguise of ‘peace’.

I talk about the duality of Islam and that is how it slithers in by using those few peaceful suras that no Muslim will voluntarily say were abrogated.

But when you are obviosly trying to do your daawa here on this site, the truth needs to be told about Islam’s teachings, history and prophet.

If the person on this thread wants to get your taqiyya and daawa, then they can go on your propaganda websites. Here they should be able to hear the truth without intimidation, or excuses.

To see Islam from your sight is to see brainwashing. For a people to just be ok with the cruelty to others just because they are not Muslim shows us how this brainwashing works. The worst human rights abuses occur where there are Sharia Laws. Laws based on the Koran, hadith and sira of Muhammed.
well , i share my view for whoever interrest with the view of " brainwashed" muslims 😃
 
yes , what about them ?
You tell me… I am an apostate, but you chose to attack me previously rather than the reasons why people leave Islam. Do apostates see Islam from the “sight” of the non-Muslims, too?
 
you know !
if your country be invaded and attacked from other nations , be sure that the muslims in your country will be the first ones who will fight to prevent you and themselfs , and they will do that becuase of the violence in quran which in fact recommending muslims to be brave and to fight for the sake of defense

hence , all of you will hope if there are no christians shouting saying " love you enemy and give them the other cheek"

peace
:rotfl:

I won’t hold my breath. And that last comment of yours doesn’t even apply to our government. Our government is secular that is influenced by a person’s background (as we see the abyssmal influences of Obama’s background we also saw the influences of such great men as Reagon) but not run by such a religious command. We have Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jews, other religions along with Islam so it cannot cater to one religion. Well, I have noticed the Muslims are trying to make us cater to them, but people are getting real sick and tired of that!

We know the difference between Church and State, unlike Islam that is probably more political than religious, but for argument’s sake I will say it is equal.
 
Yes, I know that Islam dictates every aspect of your lives. You don’t even have to think or make any decisions for yourselves, you just do everything the way Muhammad did it! 😃

Tell me, does that make sense to you?

Vickie
yes we didn’t have to insert our desire in the name of God
the final prophet gave us the complete guidence for our spiritual and practical life

that’s what discriminate islam from any other religion actually
 
You tell me… I am an apostate, but you chose to attack me previously rather than the reasons why people leave Islam. Do apostates see Islam from the “sight” of the non-Muslims, too?
I believe Byzantine Wolf is an apostate of islam as well… 😃
 
You tell me… I am an apostate, but you chose to attack me previously rather than the reasons why people leave Islam. Do apostates see Islam from the “sight” of the non-Muslims, too?
at least they see it from different sight than muslims do
anyway , i never knew real reasons for muslim to leave islam for any other religions

what about you , tell me your reasons

by the way , i kow you from the other forum . i hope if you remember me
 
I believe Byzantine Wolf is an apostate of islam as well… 😃
Yes, though he was not cradle muslim like me, his knowledge on theological issues of Islam is rather fresh and well-researched, because he wanted to become a muslim so he dug it. I was born into it, I was never presented the choice. Christianity is suppressed in Islamic societies.
 
at least they see it from different sight than muslims do
anyway ,** i never knew real reasons for muslim to leave islam for any other religions **
what about you , tell me your reasons

by the way , i kow you from the other forum . i hope if you remember me
**
Quote from above: elwill
**i never knew real reasons for muslim to leave islam for any other religions **
**

Does it occur to you that they (the apostates) found the truth and the truth was not in islam…
 
yes we didn’t have to insert our desire in the name of God
the final prophet gave us the complete guidence for our spiritual and practical life

that’s what discriminate islam from any other religion actually
Yes, that makes Islam different all right! Total mind and body control and its believers not allowed to even make any decisions for themselves. Can’t you see how unreasonable that is?

Vickie
 
:rotfl:

I won’t hold my breath. And that last comment of yours doesn’t even apply to our government. Our government is secular that is influenced by a person’s background (as we see the abyssmal influences of Obama’s background we also saw the influences of such great men as Reagon) but not run by such a religious command. We have Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jews, other religions along with Islam so it cannot cater to one religion. Well, I have noticed the Muslims are trying to make us cater to them, but people are getting real sick and tired of that!

We know the difference between Church and State, unlike Islam that is probably more political than religious, but for argument’s sake I will say it is equal.
finally , we have something to agree with
yes , i alse believe that in islam we can’t separate the teaching of islam from the state , actually we have to establish islam in our state to bring the peace to the world

did you ever read these verses from quran before
“Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)”

Fighting in the cause of GOD Almighty those who fight us is what “Jihad” is all about. I can’t go and kill a non-Muslim just because he is a non-Muslim. That is absolutely forbidden in Islam:

“But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)”

And if a treaty of peace was made, then we must honor that treaty to the end:

“Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If God had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then God Hath opened no way for you (to war against them). (The Noble Quran, 4:90)”

“How can there be a league, before God and His Apostle, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God doth love the righteous. (The Noble Quran, 9:7)”

“And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (The Noble Quran 2:193)”

note , quran said " and religion is for God " it dosn’t say " and the religion will be islam"

the verse is talking about the freedom of religion
 
but i didn’t say muslims in my example , i just said another nation

i just wanna to tell you that our religion and our quran is talking about every aspect in our life , it contain instructions in the time of war and it contain instructions in the time of peace
however we have to follow the intstructions of God if the war imposed upon us
but be sure that i agree with you that in the situation of war we will not give our enemy our cheek 😃
And this is another thing what you won’t hear from Muslims… our lands are considered the ‘realm of war’ or dar al harb. It isn’t only the USA but any land not under Sharia laws.
 
finally , we have something to agree with
yes , i alse believe that in islam we can’t separate the teaching of islam from the state , actually we have to establish islam in our state to bring the peace to the world

did you ever read these verses from quran before
“Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)”

Fighting in the cause of GOD Almighty those who fight us is what “Jihad” is all about. I can’t go and kill a non-Muslim just because he is a non-Muslim. That is absolutely forbidden in Islam:

“But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)”
And surah 2 was abrogated. Not only its application but its authority. Along with surah 2 there are 23 other surahs that fall into the classification, and they are: 3, 5, 8, 9, 14, 18, 19, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 33, 34, 40, 42, 51, 52, 56, 58, 73, 103, and 108
And if a treaty of peace was made, then we must honor that treaty to the end:

“Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If God had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then God Hath opened no way for you (to war against them). (The Noble Quran, 4:90)”
Ironic that up to this date no peace treaty, or cease fire agreement, has been honored - now you expect me to believe this?! Anyway, what that ‘treaty of peace’ is - it is only if the people accept subjugation. Your translation is a bit skewed, but that is not surprising since it is the duty of Muslims to intentionally try to mislead us as to what the koran says.

this surah is Muhammed’s abdication at Hudaybiyah. Muhammed says that Allah said the treaty was a strategy designed to deceive the enemy - to lull them into a false sense of peace. Because if one studies Islamic history we will find that Muhammed never kept any of his peace treaties.
“How can there be a league, before God and His Apostle, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God doth love the righteous. (The Noble Quran, 9:7)”

“And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (The Noble Quran 2:193)”

note , quran said " and religion is for God " it dosn’t say " and the religion will be islam"

the verse is talking about the freedom of religion
Another attempt to mislead. Considering that there is no freedom of religion in any Muslim state to this day. Muslims don’t recognize any other religion except Islam and only tolerate ‘people of the book’ if they accept subjugation. And even then the toleration is unstable. Sharia laws only protect them minimally and they have no rights to other freedoms. their religious rights are a minimum - no building/repairing Churches, no showing their religious symbols, no sound of prayer from them is tolerated, and so on.

Considering the constant (self) claims of them being Abrahamic, there is no tolerance for the other two religions included in that description. In fact, the hatred for Christians is only outdone by the hatred for Jews in the Koran.

The behavior of Muslims under Sharia laws and this attempt to try to tell us that Islam is tolerant, peaceful, etc just doesn’t add up.

I used to say that Muslims should go tell their own to stop their violence and intolerance if we are to believe that the violent and intolerant ones are misunderstanding Islam. Now that I know their texts and even know their Sharia laws, the deception is coming from the Muslims that are telling us that Islam is tolerant and peaceful. It is not and their history and texts, and especially their Prophet, show us that it is not.
 
~ snip ~

did you ever read these verses from quran before
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"


~ snip ~
Elwill, just the above verse shows that mohamad did everything opposite.

Your prophet mohamad was a war lord, he searched and seeked peoples that did NOT attack him or islam. He seeked wars on people(s) who DID NOT fight him.

Your prophet mohamad “transgressed” his limits
 
And surah 2 was abrogated. Not only its application but its authority. Along with surah 2 there are 23 other surahs that fall into the classification, and they are: 3, 5, 8, 9, 14, 18, 19, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 33, 34, 40, 42, 51, 52, 56, 58, 73, 103, and 108
who abrogated it and when ?
Ironic that up to this date no peace treaty, or cease fire agreement, has been honored - now you expect me to believe this?! Anyway, what that ‘treaty of peace’ is - it is only if the people accept subjugation. Your translation is a bit skewed, but that is not surprising since it is the duty of Muslims to intentionally try to mislead us as to what the koran says.
this surah is Muhammed’s abdication at Hudaybiyah. Muhammed says that Allah said the treaty was a strategy designed to deceive the enemy - to lull them into a false sense of peace. Because if one studies Islamic history we will find that Muhammed never kept any of his peace treaties.
it your duty to proof my misleading by real proofs and facts instead of mere accusation against me
and it’s your duty to guide me if i was brainwashed

tell me what do you know about Hudaybiyah treaty 🙂
Another attempt to mislead. Considering that there is no freedom of religion in any Muslim state to this day. Muslims don’t recognize any other religion except Islam and only tolerate ‘people of the book’ if they accept subjugation. And even then the toleration is unstable. Sharia laws only protect them minimally and they have no rights to other freedoms. their religious rights are a minimum - no building/repairing Churches, no showing their religious symbols, no sound of prayer from them is tolerated, and so on.
in my country and in most arab islamic countries christianity and judaism are recognized , and churches are building / repairing
Considering the constant (self) claims of them being Abrahamic, there is no tolerance for the other two religions included in that description. In fact, the hatred for Christians is only outdone by the hatred for Jews in the Koran.
i have many christians friends and nighbours . we don’t hate each other
but i know how you thinking ( offcourse i mislead you again , may be i killed two of them yesterday but i will never confess 😃 )
I used to say that Muslims should go tell their own to stop their violence and intolerance if we are to believe that the violent and intolerant ones are misunderstanding Islam. Now that I know their texts and even know their Sharia laws, the deception is coming from the Muslims that are telling us that Islam is tolerant and peaceful. It is not and their history and texts, and especially their Prophet, show us that it is not.
well , show me what you know about history of islam , and let us discuss the real knowlege
 
Elwill, just the above verse shows that mohamad did everything opposite.

Your prophet mohamad was a war lord, he searched and seeked peoples that did NOT attack him or islam. He seeked wars on people(s) who DID NOT fight him.

Your prophet mohamad “transgressed” his limits
specify for me what you are talking about , please
 
All You have to do is watch a DVD call (Islam: What the West Needs to Know)😦
If You Have Netfix you can watch it on Your PC
 
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