Indeed, those anti-Catholics ideas that the pope isn’t head of the whole church, or that Mary wasn’t immaculately conceived etc., aren’t the *real *Orthodox teachings.
Me neither, but I’m thinking of taking a class on it.
Those are not examples of polemics or anti-Catholic ideas. Those are simply their beliefs. “Anti-Catholic” and “polemic” are equivalent, and they refer to MISREPRESENTATIONS of Catholic beliefs. Three examples of polemics would be:
I believe you are misreading the intent of these passages. The main purpose of Allatae Sunt is exactly what I stated because it is exactly what the Encyclical says is its primary purpose.
“Express or tacit approval” by no means immediately translates to “orchestrated by.” Basically, you seem to be imposing your own personal interpretation of the phrase “express or tacit approval” and projecting that onto the actual course of events as recorded by Pope Benedict XIV. “Express or tacit approval” simply means “confirmation,” which was exactly the Pope’s role in the Synod at issue. You are not actually even considering the events of the Synod according to Pius IX’s actual words, but rather according to your own interpretation of Pius IX’s words.
I think this sums up the Orthodox position very well.
I’m not sure who made that claim, but my personal understanding is that it is not their beliefs that are the excuses-- rather, it is the polemics that are the excuses, because the polemics have no validity (since they are only misrepresentations of Catholic teachings).
I find this comment funny. I mean not just because of what I know of Hesychios regarding it, but because the single individual who you held up by name as an example of not being “anti-Catholic”, as you put it - was similarly a convert from Protestantism.
The syllogism falls apart at step 3. If that scenario is untrue then what?What, no takers on that?But all joking aside, I think Pork Roll brought up a point that is really crucial.
Namely, is the problem that Orthodox ideas are wrong, or is the problem that Orthodox ideas are stupid? (Before anyone starts complaining, please notice that I said the ideas, not the people.) If it is the latter (and I’m not necessarily saying that it is, but *if *it is), then surely that would justify some of the unorthodox (no pun intended) methods that Catholics use to dialogue with Orthodox, e.g. propagandizing.
Okay, here is a question to all the RCs and all who consider themselves under the Pope, Could you list the Characteristics/attribute that one must possess in which it makes an Orthodox Christian an Anti-Catholic?
actually the most effective in the Papal claims are the RC Converts, because the vast majority of them studied Orthodoxy when they found out that the Papacy claims are nothing but a mirage.
We are one, The Holy See of Alexandria, the Holy See of Antioch, the Holy See of Jerusalem and the Holy See of Constantinople, each of those Pre-eminent Churches kept the unity except Rome perused its own ways after separated itself from the unity of the Holy Catholic Church of God.
Apostolic Teaching is not ours to tamper with in order to achieve a fake unity.
where did you read that we do not make a distinctions, we acknowledge that there is Heretics and there is Schismatics and there Apostates and there is those who had added so much out of their own and then there is those who Threw out the baby with the bath water.
I as a cradle Orthodox that I can trace my fathers to the early centuries of Christianity in the Middle East don’t see a difference between those who came home from Rome and the various Christian denom. and us the cradles except that they all are better then us the cradles who were born in the faith for they came out of knowledge and after they studied and search and they have suffered a lot to cross over, where us were just born in to the faith, and many of us have carried this box ( sort of speak) without appreciating or to some not even knowing what is inside it, GOD bless them †††.
Have you no appreciation for literary devices?
No I understand, rephrasing it as a lineal syllogism makes it much easier to see the error in the argument.
I meant literary devices like taking a proposal (in this case, the proposal that was made yesterday: “for them to not respect the Catholic church as being apostolic and valid in its sacraments is stupid”) and seeing what follows from it, even if it hasn’t previously been established as fact.No I understand, rephrasing it as a lineal syllogism makes it much easier to see the error in the argument.
Brother Marduk,
As to the Filioque being imposed. I’ve cited TWICE where Allatae Sunt says that when Pope Eugenius IV “received the Armenians into union he obliged them to include it [the Filioque].” The Filioque was imposed on the Armenian Catholics by the Pope.
Again, Allatae Sunt was not written from the language of collegiality. In many situations with regards to the Eastern Churches, Rome sat in judgment on Eastern traditions. Thankfully, we’re seeing a change nowadays since Vatican 2 on these sort of things.
Ok, I feel that I need to step in now. Pork Roll, I am glad that you are willing to stand up and present our position on this issue. But I feel that you are taking it way too far and which is why I am now asking you to please control yourself. Some of your posts have not been very charitable and I feel it really don’t help our cause.
Exactly it is your opinion that it is silly.
I agree, and so does the Catholic church. It has to do with intent as well. This is why the church declared the Assyrian Church of the East to have a valid anaphora. But is also why Anglican Orders were considered invalid because the orthodox understanding and intent of ordination was lost. This doesn’t mean as you say in a mysterious way God doesn’t work through their ‘sacraments’. Only God knows.
But to not acknowledge the closeness of the Catholic and EO sacramental understanding, practice and history is silly IMO. But, we will never agree on this. I think the catholic church has a better and more honest theological framework than the EO who tend IMO to avoid certain doctrinal questions. It’s not honest to lump Catholics with Mormons or even Anglicans in our ecumenical realations.
Honesty I don’t think that this article will be any good. I began to read the beginning paragraph and it started to bash Eastern Orthodoxy.