Contemplation and consolation

[edithsteinrocks]

Hi all!

Part of our letting go of our egos, or selves, is acknowledging that when we wish to draw closer to God, we may be doing so out of a desire, even if on a subconscious level, to receive graces, consolations or some sort of sign from him. On the other hand, we are all encouraged to engage in contemplative prayer, to dispose our souls to contemplating the Divine, to desire God.

Here’s my question: can contemplation ever really and honestly be purged of any shred of desire for consolation, considering the very nature of the act itself? Do I not, every time I settle into contemplative prayer and reach for God, inevitably open myself up to the possibility that I am seeking some sort of consolation from Him?

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Monica4316]

it seems that it is often purified when the soul feels very far from God during contemplation/prayer or even abandoned by Him… (this is different than feeling this way because of unconfessed sin, lack of faith or love, lukewarmness, etc… St John of the Cross gives ways to discern this in his book ‘Dark Night of the Soul’ ).

God bless!

 

[AlanFromWichita]

One quote that comes to mind is: “God does not love us if we change; God loves us so we can change.”

Contemplation itself is a gift from God given at His discretion and on His schedule. With contemplative prayer forms, we open ourselves up to invite contemplation whereby His Spirit renews and purifies us. God takes us from where we are, to where He wills.

Contemplative prayer forms are not so much about worthiness; it’s about allowing our mind to become silent to the usual things that we think about and concern ourselves with. In this “emptying” of ourselves we put aside our ego, and invite God to take the lead, speaking in His native language, which is silent of human words.

Since I’m an engineer and not a theologian, I’ll tack on the disclaimer that this is my opinion based on what I have been told and my own experience.

In short, my opinion about your question is that I don’t believe having a desire for consolations will adversely affect our ability to seek contemplation through contemplative prayer forms. Perhaps having an inordinate desire for consolations is one of the things the Holy Spirit can work on during your period of silent prayer. Also, I understand that the results of contemplation are not necessarily noticed or felt during the prayer itself, but manifests itself in us in the ways we think and act – especially in our relationship with others – outside of the prayer times. So I’m not sure that contemplation is necessarily a road to consolations anyway.

Personally I desire consolations as well, although sometimes I’m not sure I can recognize true spiritual consolations from emotional “highs.”

For more information on prayer forms, there is a nice article in the CCC, paragraphs 2700-2724, about three forms of prayer: vocal prayer, meditation, and contemplative prayer. Note that there are more paragraphs on contemplative prayer than on the other two forms, combined.

Alan

 

[Little_One0307]

Hi all!

Part of our letting go of our egos, or selves, is acknowledging that when we wish to draw closer to God, we may be doing so out of a desire, even if on a subconscious level, to receive graces, consolations or some sort of sign from him. On the other hand, we are all encouraged to engage in contemplative prayer, to dispose our souls to contemplating the Divine, to desire God.

Here’s my question: can contemplation ever really and honestly be purged of any shred of desire for consolation, considering the very nature of the act itself? Do I not, every time I settle into contemplative prayer and reach for God, inevitably open myself up to the possibility that I am seeking some sort of consolation from Him?

Thanks for sharing!

That is the point of contemplative prayer to open yourself up to God so that he can reach you, however it response best on our end is detatchment of whether He will reach for us or not.

We should always be open to God, but we should not be banking on it or desiring it.

It is possible with detatchment that one is not looking for consolations in life.

God bless.

 

[hazcompat]

Will your consolation torment you in the desert, and beyond?

peace

 

[nanacat]

Hi all!

Part of our letting go of our egos, or selves, is acknowledging that when we wish to draw closer to God, we may be doing so out of a desire, even if on a subconscious level, to receive graces, consolations or some sort of sign from him. On the other hand, we are all encouraged to engage in contemplative prayer, to dispose our souls to contemplating the Divine, to desire God.

Here’s my question: can contemplation ever really and honestly be purged of any shred of desire for consolation, considering the very nature of the act itself? Do I not, every time I settle into contemplative prayer and reach for God, inevitably open myself up to the possibility that I am seeking some sort of consolation from Him?

Thanks for sharing!

Whoa, what a thoughtful, important topic!

I think that to adore God purely because He is God, to worship Him without desire for His consolations or gifts, must be one the hardest things we are called to do as Catholics. Brother Lawrence of the Resurrection, who after a lifetime of contemplation, tried to make every unimportant act in his life a gift to God, writes in The Practice of the Presence of God, about how he would sneak around and try to do things quietly, solely for the love of God, without any petition or expectation, only to be rewarded yet again with God’s bounty.

I don’t know if I’ll ever get to that point… I am often filled with thanksgiving, with pure joy at all that the Lord has done for me, and I try to leave it at that, but it’s amazing how often I find myself praying “for” something–even if it’s for something pure and unselfish.

A lot to think and pray about. Thanks.

 

[edithsteinrocks]

Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread, I appreciate it.

Contemplation and union with God is nothing if not an exercize in embracing paradox…

 

[Little_One0307]

Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread, I appreciate it.

Contemplation and union with God is nothing if not an exercize in embracing paradox…

It is an excercise of letting go completely and letting God be God of everything. St. Therese once wrote that she felt like a rag doll that was thrown into a corner abandoned by all. And yet, she was very closer to God.

Union with God is perfect conformity with HIs Will. It is humility par excellence. It is what we were called for and are destined for.

Union with God cannot be placed into words, for when one is in Union with God, that is peace, and that peace passes all understanding.

God bless.

 

[DevotedChild]

That is a good topic to discuss and understand, especially if you are like me and you have a call from Jesus to become His Bride. Thanks for all that shared. Your (name removed by moderator)ut has cleared some questions for me. Thanks again.

God Bless you all.

 

[DBT]

Here’s my question: can contemplation ever really and honestly be purged of any shred of desire for consolation

Yes, but it’s important to define what one means by “consolation.” Properly speaking, consolation is a fruit of meditation . . . the pious thoughts and feelings that are born of our own reflections and insights. It is easy to become attached to these thoughts and feelings . . . to prize them above all else. As St. John of the Cross teaches, though, meditation is not a proximate means to union with God. The night of sense purges us of these desires for consolation and readies us for contemplation.

And In contemplation, the fruit is “spiritual delight” rather than consolation. This is the peace, joy and tranquility that flows from being placed in a contempative state (quiet or union) where the faculties are stilled through His pure gift. As this experience is not based on images, forms or ideas, consolation as described above really doesn’t have a place. Nor would one want it as “unknowing” rather than knowing is the way we proceed.

But I don’t think this can really be described in words; rather, it is known by experience.

Dave

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Dave, I like and appreciate your post, but I didn’t quite understand what you meant by your statement:

Nor would one want it as “unknowing” rather than knowing is the way we proceed.

Could you please expand on that some? I’m a fan of (thought no expert on) the book “The Cloud of Unknowing” so I’m somewhat familiar with that term, but I’m not sure what you are saying here, or whether you are referring to consolation or maybe meditation.

Alan

 

[DBT]

Could you please expand on that some? I’m a fan of (thought no expert on) the book “The Cloud of Unknowing” so I’m somewhat familiar with that term, but I’m not sure what you are saying here, or whether you are referring to consolation or maybe meditation.

Hi Alan-
It’s a hard concept to describe but it comes down to the difference between meditation and contemplation. The former is based on thinking, feeling, reflection, insight, introspection . . . the latter is not. The former is “doing” the latter “be-ing.” Consolation is the joy we experience that leads us to believe God can be grasped by our thoughts and feelings of Him . . . that we “know” Him in this way. While that’s true to a degree, it is not a proximate means to union (St. John of the Cross) for God can not be placed into any box we create for Him. In contemplation, He is tasted or experienced in silence . . . without “images, forms, or ideas” of Him. It is more of a simple gaze . . . intuition rather than introspection. Thus unknowing . . . a union that is not based in our rational faculties. A union that comes from Him (contemplation) not us (meditation).

Clear as mud?
Dave

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Clear as mud?

Actually, yes. Thank you for expanding on that.

I understand that we cannot put God into a box, even if that box is big enough to hold everything we know, think, and say about Him. To just “be,” as you said, rather than use our own devices to actively “seek” Him, allows the Spirit to move us beyond all of that.

Alan

 

[JoyfulLife]

Here’s my question: can contemplation ever really and honestly be purged of any shred of desire for consolation, considering the very nature of the act itself? Do I not, every time I settle into contemplative prayer and reach for God, inevitably open myself up to the possibility that I am seeking some sort of consolation from Him?

Thanks for sharing!

This makes me think back to the Saints. They LOOOOVED to suffer. Wasn’t it Saint Teresa of Avila that said “Let me suffer or die”? I am no spiritual director, but it would seem from the Saints that after you grow in holiness and lots of purifying, you will take whatever you get, and will desire suffering because it brings you closer to Jesus, the Cross, and it pleases Jesus.

 

[JoyfulLife]

Yes, but it’s important to define what one means by “consolation.” Properly speaking, consolation is a fruit of meditation . . . the pious thoughts and feelings that are born of our own reflections and insights. It is easy to become attached to these thoughts and feelings . . . to prize them above all else. As St. John of the Cross teaches, though, meditation is not a proximate means to union with God. The night of sense purges us of these desires for consolation and readies us for contemplation.

And In contemplation, the fruit is “spiritual delight” rather than consolation. This is the peace, joy and tranquility that flows from being placed in a contempative state (quiet or union) where the faculties are stilled through His pure gift. As this experience is not based on images, forms or ideas, consolation as described above really doesn’t have a place. Nor would one want it as “unknowing” rather than knowing is the way we proceed.

But I don’t think this can really be described in words; rather, it is known by experience.

Dave

 

[Sirach2]

Edithsteinrocks:

Here’s my question: can contemplation ever really and honestly be purged of any shred of desire for consolation, considering the very nature of the act itself?

Yes indeed. Through various purifications that God permits during our journey to Him, we come to the place of hunger - hunger for God Himself, without any other desire, such as for consolations. The person, like Christ, has “no place to lay his head.” Nothing on earth is able to satisfy it. This restless hunger can be intense at times, causing what St. John calls “wounds of love” which are bereft of any consolation whatsoever. If there can be any delight in this experience, it is the awareness of being deeply touched with the presence of God, but it is shrouded in the wounds caused by this intense longing.

Do I not, every time I settle into contemplative prayer and reach for God, inevitably open myself up to the possibility that I am seeking some sort of consolation from Him?

This may be true, and St. John wrote about this, saying that the desire for God can be a natural human striving for that which it esteems. It is involuntary much of the time, but the desire for His consolations may reside deep in the subconscious. In time, this seeking for spiritual joys will be purified to desires for God alone.

 

[Sirach2]

Dave and Alan,
I can’t pass by without saying how good it is to see you both again! It’s really been too long!

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Dave and Alan,
I can’t pass by without saying how good it is to see you both again! It’s really been too long!

Well, thank you, and it is good to see you here, too. I noticed that since the last time I hung around here, there seems to be an increased number of threads about contemplation.

I was introduced to it by my SD 10 years ago and pushed it whenever I got a chance when I started here in 2005, but now I see there is quite a bit of support for it. Honestly, I seldom do the “formal” version the way I was doing it years ago, but I still use what I’ve learned to rest in God from time to time, even if only for a few minutes at a sitting.

Alan