Contemplation/ Have Faith

[GiftofMercy]

I agree that it’s a journey, which implies both time and work put in. It is a gift, but I doubt that it implies exclusivity (as in, a gift given to a rare few). To think that contemplation can be accessed by only a rare few is, likely, monastic mythology.

I have not said anywhere that it is rare or exclusive gift. Have I made myself unclear?

Yes pray properly the vocal prayer and learn Lectio Divina

 

[Magnanimity]

I have not said anywhere that it is rare or exclusive gift. Have I made myself unclear?

I myself participate in a contemplative tradition. And I want to encourage as many as are able/willing to participate in this spiritual “journey” too (in the spirit of Our Lord’s words when He said “come and see”). I am sensitive to language surrounding these matters. You stated twice in one paragraph that “true contemplation is a gift,” so whatever you precisely meant by that must have been important to you. But sometimes when folks here that word “gift,” it can be off-putting. As in, they may ask themselves, “if it’s a gift, maybe God won’t give it to me? Maybe He’ll only give it to a select few persons?” And my purpose was to add the qualifier that, yes, contemplation is a gift, but it’s a gift freely given like all His gifts. But accessing these gifts does necessitate putting in the spiritual work.

If you find these comments of mine to be palatable to your outlook, then peace be with you.

 

[GiftofMercy]

“true contemplation is a gift,”

What I mean precisely is that God grants this gift, Contemplative prayer is a gift from God. We can do vocal prayer, we can do meditative prayer, we can do lectio divina , but we cannot , however hard we try, or whatever we do, gain contemplative prayer ourselves. God grants us this gift.

And this is the reality of contemplative prayer.

 

[EndTimes]

What I mean precisely is that God grants this gift, Contemplative prayer is a gift from God. We can do vocal prayer, we can do meditative prayer, we can do lectio divina , but we cannot , however hard we try, or whatever we do, gain contemplative prayer ourselves. God grants us this gift.

I wouldn’t lessen Lectio Divina - for The Divine Himself can present Himself in such Prayer…

Yes… It requires FAITH that God Indeed can Hear us and even Respond to us as He Wills…

With that in mind, we can even speak to Him in manners shown by His Apostles with Jesus.

_

 

[Magnanimity]

but we cannot , however hard we try, or whatever we do, gain contemplative prayer ourselves. God grants us this gift.

I understand your perspective a little better now. And while I do not share your point of view, I appreciate you clarifying. Peace be with you in your ongoing journey.

 

[GiftofMercy]

I wouldn’t lessen Lectio Divina - for The Divine Himself can present Himself in such Prayer…

Lectio Divina is a meditative prayer. True Contemplative prayer is different. In contemplative prayer we strive to gaze on God and push away every thought that distracts us from that, including meditating on Scripture.

We must separate these types of prayer if discussing them.

 

[GiftofMercy]

It is not my point of view, it is church teaching, every monk who has taught this to me has said this is a gift from God. We cannot achieve it ourselves.

And there are methods to practice it or begin it if you will.

 

[EndTimes]

Lectio Divina is a meditative prayer. True Contemplative prayer is different. In contemplative prayer we strive to gaze on God and push away every thought that distracts us from that, including meditating on Scripture.

We must separate these types of prayer if discussing them.

Yes… I’m attempting to do so.

 

[Magnanimity]

It is not my point of view, it is church teaching, every monk who has taught this to me has said this is a gift from God. We cannot achieve it ourselves.

You have drawn a dichotomy between practices that you believe we can do on our own, which do not require any “gifting” from God (rosary, lectio) on the one hand and the contemplative prayer that only comes to us as a gift from God on the other hand. To dichotomize so strongly is most certainly not church teaching, it is a particular monastic refrain that I’ve heard before.

Church teaching is that there is nothing that you have or do, which isn’t simultaneously a gift from God, even down to your very existence itself. It all is a gift and it is freely given, to include contemplative prayer.

 

[EndTimes]

Lectio Divina is a meditative prayer. True Contemplative prayer is different. In contemplative prayer we strive to gaze on God and push away every thought that distracts us from that, including meditating on Scripture.

We must separate these types of prayer if discussing them.

Lectio Divina allows for God Himself to be present with a person.

In Catholicism, Lectio Divina (Latin for “Divine Reading”) is a traditional monastic practice of scriptural reading, meditation and prayer intended to promote communion with God and to increase the knowledge of God’s word.

One does not have to be a member of a monestary to engage in Lectio Divina and, therefore, with God

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The Cloud of Unknowing, by the authors own hand, is not for beginners, but those advanced in prayer.

So, it’s not about faith itself as the author assumes the reader has faith, but about Contemplative Prayer and moving toward union with Christ.

 

[HiImBrittom]

I understood Faith as a means to believe in God which you can rely on, freeing your mind from distractions.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Faith is a gift, it is God’s revelation of HImself to the individual, however that may happen.

A person can believe in God but not have faith.

A person can have religion, but not have faith.

Faith is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not an abstract belief in a diety.

 

[GiftofMercy]

You have drawn a dichotomy between practices that you believe we can do on our own

Again, this is not simply ‘my belief’

 

[Magnanimity]

Again, this is not simply ‘my belief’

This is merely an assertion. Feel free to counter the actual reasoning that I’ve provided. Or don’t! I’m not here to convince @GiftofMercy of anything. But I will challenge outdated, monastic mythology if need be. Peace be with you.

 

[GiftofMercy]

This is merely an assertion. Feel free to counter the actual reasoning that I’ve provided. Or don’t! I’m not here to convince @GiftofMercy of anything. But I will challenge outdated, monastic mythology if need be. Peace be with you.

2000 years of monastic ways of prayer and what they mean , are of no consequence until you want to push a point

Fr Keating’s Contemplative Outreach uses the Cloud of Unknowing as the basis for his method. So does the Episcopalian Rev. Cynthia Bourgeault’s Wisdom Way of Knowing school.

Yet you push books and people heavily influenced by a work from the middle ages though most likely written by a member/s of a monastic community.

You might care to explain your dichotomy.

 

[EndTimes]

I understood Faith as a means to believe in God which you can rely on, freeing your mind from distractions.

And I understand Faith and Belief as being just about the Same…
Faith opens the Door to a Spiritual Connection to e.g., God

 

[Magnanimity]

You might care to explain your dichotomy.

I have in an earlier response to you above. I’m glad you’ve found a path. I only wish many, many others might similarly find a path toward deep spirituality. The Trappists saw the writing on the monastic wall in the wake of Vat 2 and have attempted to bring their path(s) to the lay-masses. They get it. If only everyone did…

Peace be with you!