L
Lifeisawesome
Guest
Ah - it seems this may be where we part in perspective. I am not so comfortable assuming what is not definitively stated. Don’t hold me to that rule though - I may throw it out when making some other argument.
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B
Bookcat
Guest
There is not need to be concerned with “assuming” anything here…no assumption needed. It is clear in the text of the Catechism and the document from Bl. John Paul II that it is “not only” infused contemplation that is being spoken of using the term “contemplation”.Ah - it seems this may be where we part in perspective. I am not so comfortable assuming what is not definitively stated. Don’t hold me to that rule though - I may throw it out when making some other argument.
D
DBT
Guest
I just read the document by Bl John Paul II and it does indeed speak of contemplation in a much broader sense than just the infused . . . repeatedly, in fact.
I was particularily struck by the section titled “Mary, Model of Contemplation” and her way of prayer to ponder always. This is noteworthy to me personally as it strikes to the heart of what it means to be a Carmelite . . . to emulate her in this way.
And I was struck too how many times in those few short paragraphs it said "to gaze . . " or “to look . . .” This indeed can be considered a “type” of contemplation though theolgians would typically define it as recollection or the prayer of simplicity . . . though perhaps, at times, infused. It is a way of prayer similiar to the famous description “I look at Him and He looks at me.” Again context is everything in one’s definition of the word contemplation . . . and these type of descriptions used by Bl John Paul II are what is typically meant by the term “acquired.”
And this is how I see the CCC as well. The description used there is sufficiently broad to not close the door on - or champion - one particular school of thought on what contemplation is and isn’t.
Dave
I was particularily struck by the section titled “Mary, Model of Contemplation” and her way of prayer to ponder always. This is noteworthy to me personally as it strikes to the heart of what it means to be a Carmelite . . . to emulate her in this way.
And I was struck too how many times in those few short paragraphs it said "to gaze . . " or “to look . . .” This indeed can be considered a “type” of contemplation though theolgians would typically define it as recollection or the prayer of simplicity . . . though perhaps, at times, infused. It is a way of prayer similiar to the famous description “I look at Him and He looks at me.” Again context is everything in one’s definition of the word contemplation . . . and these type of descriptions used by Bl John Paul II are what is typically meant by the term “acquired.”
And this is how I see the CCC as well. The description used there is sufficiently broad to not close the door on - or champion - one particular school of thought on what contemplation is and isn’t.
Dave
D
DBT
Guest
. . . and one last comment on pondering always:
When we read closely from a St. Teresa, recollection/simplicity are acquired ways of prayer and quiet/union are infused . . . so they might seem poles apart from simply a definitional point of view. In reality, though - and perhaps experience will confirm - these are simply different grades or depth of the same prayer which tend to flow from, to and through one another . . . one of Teresa’s many meanings of the concept of a “room” or “mansion” in Interior Castle.
So where the “starting line” is for what is meant by contemplaton isn’t so important from a practical point of view. Though from an academic point of view I do see the value of such distinctions.
Dave
When we read closely from a St. Teresa, recollection/simplicity are acquired ways of prayer and quiet/union are infused . . . so they might seem poles apart from simply a definitional point of view. In reality, though - and perhaps experience will confirm - these are simply different grades or depth of the same prayer which tend to flow from, to and through one another . . . one of Teresa’s many meanings of the concept of a “room” or “mansion” in Interior Castle.
So where the “starting line” is for what is meant by contemplaton isn’t so important from a practical point of view. Though from an academic point of view I do see the value of such distinctions.
Dave
C
Clare_G
Guest
What is contemplative prayer?
St. Teresa answers: “Contemplative prayer [oracion mental] in my opinion is nothing else than a close sharing between friends; it means taking time frequently to be alone with him who we know loves us.”
Contemplative prayer seeks him “whom my soul loves.” It is Jesus, and in him, the Father. We seek him, because to desire him is always the beginning of love, and we seek him in that pure faith which causes us to be born of him and to live in him. In this inner prayer we can still meditate, but our attention is fixed on the Lord himself.
St. Teresa answers: “Contemplative prayer [oracion mental] in my opinion is nothing else than a close sharing between friends; it means taking time frequently to be alone with him who we know loves us.”
Contemplative prayer seeks him “whom my soul loves.” It is Jesus, and in him, the Father. We seek him, because to desire him is always the beginning of love, and we seek him in that pure faith which causes us to be born of him and to live in him. In this inner prayer we can still meditate, but our attention is fixed on the Lord himself.
Code:
:bowdown:Contemplative prayer is hearing the Word of God. Far from being passive, such attentiveness is the obedience of faith, the unconditional acceptance of a servant, and the loving commitment of a child. It participates in the "Yes" of the Son become servant and the Fiat of God's lowly handmaid.
Contemplative prayer is silence, the "symbol of the world to come" or "silent love." Words in this kind of prayer are not speeches; they are like kindling that feeds the fire of love. In this silence, unbearable to the "outer" man, the Father speaks to us his incarnate Word, who suffered, died, and rose; in this silence the Spirit of adoption enables us to share in the prayer of Jesus.
L
Little_One0307
Guest
Hi,
One of my favorite definitions of contemplative prayer, is standing quietly and humbly before God with the mind in the heart.
One of my favorite definitions of contemplative prayer, is standing quietly and humbly before God with the mind in the heart.
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