Contemplativeprayer.net

[diligamus]

its methods are based on the belief that there is no God

Blessedstar, this is not really true. The fundamental belief, on which Buddhism is based, is that “there is suffering.” As to whether or not there is a God, this is question that is not addressed by the Buddhist worldview. It is, if you like, “out of scope.”

 

[blessedstar]

Sorry but your comments above are in complete opposite of what Centering Prayer is. Centering Prayer does nothing more than make ourselves available to the Holy Spirit, who work’s in us. In no way is it ever taught, that it is CP or ourselves who do the work of transformation, but rather, it is Christ who transforms us.
Centering Prayer merely helps to remove the distractions which are impediments to prayer.

Anyway, I can see that people here have made up their minds, and no amount of information will get through the mental block they have set up against CP.

At this point, there’s no point in me trying to explain further.

God Bless
Jim

No man can remove distractions totally from their minds, to do so would be to have a blank mind with no thought and that is impossible. St Teresa of Avila teaches us not to worry about distractions but to return to prayer because no-one can avoid distractions. I will stick with her teachings, they are superior because they are from the fount of Truth and I won’t pursue some eastern philosophy of prayer which has no root in the Truth.

I have to go out with friends now, but I will come back to the rest of your post.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

blessedstar

No man can remove distractions totally from their minds, to do so would be to have a blank mind with no thought and that is impossible.

Agreed, so does Father Keating.

St Teresa of Avila teaches us not to worry about distractions but to return to prayer because no-one can avoid distractions.

Agreed, so does Father Keating. Return to the Sacred Prayer word.

I

will stick with her teachings, they are superior because they are from the fount of Truth and I won’t pursue some eastern philosophy of prayer which has no root in the Truth.

St Teresa’s teachings are what Father Keating uses.

I

have to go out with friends now, but I will come back to the rest of your post.

Have a good time

Jim

 

[blessedstar]

Jim you want to pray your way and have everyone else admit it is a great way to pray. I don’t see any link between St Teresa and Centering Prayer, Fr Keating may acclaim his work by saying he bases his way of prayer from eastern traditions on St Teresa’s works but that doesn’t mean it has anything to do with St Teresa. It does however have everything to do with eastern beliefs.

I can’t agree that Centering Prayer is a way to pray, I don’t think it is a good way to pray and I wouldn’t recommend it in a million years.

I don’t know how it is in America but in other parts of the world centering prayer is not promoted by anyone, moreover nor does the Church promote it. The Majesterium have not included this method in the Catechism and it is not recommended to the faithful. If it is so good why doesn’t the Church promote it? I am a secular Carmelite and for a short time we received formation manuals from the USA. They were heavily based on centering prayer. These formation books were swiftly withdrawn and all Secular Carmelites now continue in formation with instruction from the Saints Teresa, Therese and John of the Cross and other Carmelite Blesseds and Saints and we are obedient to this move.

All centering prayer is is an attempt to marry up Catholic Traditional Prayer and impoverish them with eastern methods of Buddhist prayer to create something so-called new like redesigning soap powder and calling it new when there is nothing new in it nor any improvement of note but rather a dumming down to drag in folks who are always looking for some new spiritual fad. To my mind they have attempted to take the works of the great Saints without whom not many of us would know anything of great note about the ways of prayer and they have grafted it into a way of prayer that knows nothing of the internal journey to contemplation.

You got to ask yourself why the Church speaks out against using prayer from other beliefs and does not give official approval of centering prayer.

 

[blessedstar]

Buddhists do not believe in God. The point is in Buddhism it is not necessary to believe in God, a Buddhist is free to believe in God or not to believe in God. So Buddhists may be athiest or believe in some sort of unnamed deity or multiple deities. Their prayer is not about transforming the self to the likeness of God, but to reach enlightenment, that by meditation a person may rise above the self (to what we do not know) and overcome all suffering by reaching nirvana.

I don’t say it is wrong to ‘do good’ and have the eightfold path of all ‘right’, these are a shadow of the Truth and are noble and in accordance with natural law, but what I do say is that for Catholics they must stay on the path of Catholicism and not dabble in other beliefs and adopt their practises because the practises we have are directly from God and not from men who by whatever belief they hold outside of Catholicism and whether they believe in God or not have formed their own practises that are not from God directly and do not lead to God with safety and assurity. I would say in all truth that men have formed these ways because they are spiritual beings and naturally seek God and the spirit of man will find ways but these ways are not directly from God because if they were they would be in accordance with the Church of Christ Jesus and would be Catholic and not be another belief. Therefore natural law is sought by people in Buddhism and they have mistaken it for the spiritual, but this is not the summit because the spiritual summit is Christ Jesus and He is also the summit of natural law and so whether they know it or not what they truly seek is Christ Jesus. But here in Buddhism they will not find Christ Jesus, or rather they do not recognise Him.

Buddhism is about the self Catholicism is about dying to self, two polar extremes and the two cannot be married.

All that is outside of Catholicism is a shadow of the truth, but inside Catholicism is the Truth, The Way and the Life and nothing outside holds all of this. It is imperative therefore that nothing of the outside must penetrate and impoverish the Truth, the Way and the Life because in impoverishment it ceases to be the Truth, the Way and the Life in Christ Jesus.

 

[InLight247]

Buddhists do not believe in God.
…

All that is outside of Catholicism is a shadow of the truth, but inside Catholicism is the Truth.

Well said!!

 

[Greg27]

Personally in my studies of Centering Prayer I don’t think it is based on Asian mystical spirituality. Generally only Catholic and Orthodox saints and Christians are mentioned, and if the writers do express it in terms of Asian mystical religion, it is probably to draw Christians who have fallen away from the faith because they find Asian methods of meditation fill a gap that is missing. From a pastoral point of view, the best response is to try and reach out to people who have the grace or capacity for mystical contemplation and show them the great riches of the Christian tradition, which do not need the methods of Asian mystical religion for validation or approval. In my view, a person should only engage in inter-religious dialogue if one is a master of one’s own contemplative tradition first, so one knows clearly how to judge from a close union with Christ what is wheat and chaff in foreign religions or the practices of meditation, and what is useful and not useful in the quest for God.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I read through this document. Its obvious that those who have attacked Centering Prayer and have even taken quotes from this document, did not read or left out the part below.

LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON
SOME ASPECTS OF CHRISTIAN MEDITATION

1. The majority of the “great religions” which have sought union with God in prayer have also pointed out ways to achieve it. Just as "the Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions,"18 neither should these ways be rejected out of hand simply because they are not Christian. On the contrary, one can take from them what is useful so long as the Christian conception of prayer, its logic and requirements are never obscured. It is within the context of all of this that these bits and pieces should be taken up and expressed anew. Among these one might mention first of all that of the humble acceptance of a master who is an expert in the life of prayer, and of the counsels he gives. Christian experience has known of this practice from earliest times, from the epoch of the desert Fathers. Such a master, being an expert in “sentire cum ecclesia,” must not only direct and warn of certain dangers; as a “spiritual father,” he has to also lead his pupil in a dynamic way, heart to heart, into the life of prayer, which is the gift of the Holy Spirit.
   ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFMED.HTM

Emphasis is in bold is mine.

That all being said, “Centering Prayer,” as Father Keating, one of the founders of it has said, did not come out of Eastern Religion, but from Catholic Tradition. Fr Keating and Basil Pennington, used “The Cloud of Unknowing,” as a tool to teach it, which is an old Catholic classic read by monks for centuries. Also, anyone familiar with St. Teresa of Avila or St. John of the Cross, will quickly link Centering Prayer with them, as does Fr Keating and Basil Pennington.

So the accusations that Centering Prayer is from Eastern religion is false, but even if it had such a link, the above quote from Cardinal Ratzinger, should give people some ease about it.

Jim

 

[tomaquin88]

It has been an interesting reading and I hope it will not end here.

Eastern or not is one tenet of the discussion. Another is whether mantra-meditation leads closer to Christ or closer to something else, albeit naturally good.

A third interesting aspect is whether our popes and Rome in general support or do not support mantra meditation in general.

A fourth, most interesting, is the question: What is mantra- or holy word meditation?

John Main used to refer to St Cassian. But on reading St Cassians Conferences I get another picture than the one John Main or Lawrence Freeman presents.

If one is steeped in Philokalia, the orthodox treasure of desert fathers, meditation and contemplative prayer is embedded in liturgy and cognitive labour on Christ, cognitive labour on the right doctrine as opposed to what is erroneous teaching, meditations on the Virgin, the Saints, the Gospel, the nature of the Church and so on.

It is not - like John Main or CP - centered in silence or inner peace or relative freeedom from distracting thinking but rather in a struggle with the world inside and outside of us. The world does not give us peace and we are headed somewhere else.

A nice thought experiment is of course to try to see what Jesus would do, should He visit us here: would he sit down with a mantra? Would St Peter do that? I think they would look for the liturgy and prayer within it. And then fight the world !

Let’s continue the discussion!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

tomaquin88

Unfortunately, discussions on CP has been banned for the rest of 2007. So, I can’t get into further explanation.

You mention the Philokalia, which of course is from the Eastern Orthodox. I have volume 1 and 2. Volume 3, takes a shot at Roman Catholicism, and so I didn’t bother buying it.
I did enjoy what I’ve read in in Volume 1 and 2.

You are probably aware of the book, “The Way of the Pilgrim?”

In there, the Pilgrim is taught the Jesus prayer. He is taught to repeat it, until it becomes part of every aspect of his life.
The Jesus Prayer, in essence is used as a mantra.

And what is a mantra, other than a word or phrase, which is used to keep our attention focused on our prayer.

In the Christian aspect, a holy word or phrase, is used to keep our focus on the presence of Christ.

It is the intention of our will, which separates Christian meditation from Eastern meditation. For us Christians, our prayer is a relationshionship with Christ. Eastern meditation is not relational but self-centered.

In Christian Prayer, the intention of our will, is union with Christ. It is He, who brings us into contemplation, not the method of prayer we use.

Jim

 

[ANGELIC_PEACE]

I’ve read the threads on CAF re: centering prayer - from what I can gather contemplative prayer is a gift from God given to pious souls, and centering prayer can open a soul to diabolical forces. Please can someone tell me if the following website encourages contemplative or centering prayer?

contemplativeprayer.net/

hi…

i don’t mean to sound dumb…

but what is contemplative prayer?..what is centering prayer?..i don’t really understand what it means…when i tried to look it up the websites where swapping centering and contemplative so i didn’t understand it…
how does it open you up to diabolical forces (i’m not trying to be difficult…i really don’t know about this stuff)…

ANGELIC PEACE

 

[InLight247]

If your carefully read this thread, there are lot of reponses talked about what is contemplative prayer, what is not, what is centering prayer, what is not. Have you read this thread from the beginning and try to understand? If not, I suggest you to do so before anyone reinvents the wheel or reinitiate any debate.

If after you carefully read this thread and still have question, I recommand you to get Fr. Dubay’s book “The Fire Within” and read it.

God bless!

 

[blossom02]

I’ve read the threads on CAF re: centering prayer - from what I can gather contemplative prayer is a gift from God given to pious souls, and centering prayer can open a soul to diabolical forces. Please can someone tell me if the following website encourages contemplative or centering prayer?

contemplativeprayer.net/

I wonder why this monastery calls itself Magic and why they would need to use an eneagram??? What do you think about that kind of thing?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Here is a link with the book written by the late Fr. Basil Pennington OSCB, on the true origins of Centering Prayer. Father Pennington, Father Keating and Father Thomas Merton, were the three originators, in teaching the method of Centering Prayer, to lay people. The origins of this method go back to the desert fathers of Christianity. The method is rooted in the rich tradition of the Catholic Church. Have no doubt about it.

Read for yourself.

kyrie.com/cp/a_gift_from_the_desert.htm

Whatever else you’re reading CP that is contrary to what these men taught, should be ignored because its inaccurate.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I wonder why this monastery calls itself Magic and why they would need to use an eneagram??? What do you think about that kind of thing?

I’d like to know too, why they call it the Magic Monastery, so, I sent email asking about it.

The enneagram, not to be confused with pentagram, is a personality type test, like Myers Briggs. It helps a person discern their personality type, as a means to knowing yourself better, which is conducive for being open to change.

From my own experience with the Trappist and Benedictines, they often allow lay people to setup and maintain website for them, especially if they do not have some one with the expertise or the know how.

In this case, it may be a lay person’s own use of the word, “magic monastery,” and not that of the monks.

We’ll see if they respond to my email.

Jim

 

[Lifeisawesome]

Amen! Here’s a good site with brief treatments of a few of father Dubay’s books and good content about true contemplative prayer, meditation, etc.
rcspiritualdirection.blogspot.com

If your carefully read this thread, there are lot of reponses talked about what is contemplative prayer, what is not, what is centering prayer, what is not. Have you read this thread from the beginning and try to understand? If not, I suggest you to do so before anyone reinvents the wheel or reinitiate any debate.

If after you carefully read this thread and still have question, I recommand you to get Fr. Dubay’s book “The Fire Within” and read it.

God bless!

 

[Lifeisawesome]

Hey folks - I thought this topic was banned?

Dubay is a good source

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Hey folks - I thought this topic was banned?

Dubay is a good source

Centering Prayer is banned, which is why not much activity on this thread exist.

Jim

 

[Lifeisawesome]

There was another great Catholic Answers broadcast with Sharon Lee Giganti on May the 27th further exposing the deception of Keating etc. on Centering Prayer and the New Age. The title is Oprah and the New Age… great work! Check out the May Radio Calendar to listen to the archive. BTW - not trying to start a conversation - just to let folks know about this important broadcast.

 

[brigid12]

I’ve read the threads on CAF re: centering prayer - from what I can gather contemplative prayer is a gift from God given to pious souls, and centering prayer can open a soul to diabolical forces. Please can someone tell me if the following website encourages contemplative or centering prayer?

contemplativeprayer.net/

Centering prayer. I would definitely do as DBT advises and read Fire Within by Fr. Dubay!