Contemporary Catholic Hymns and younger Catholics?

[Justin1224]

Do you think its likely that younger catholics, those younger than 40 favor contemporary hymns and and are less likely to think that they are not ok to sing at mass than more traditional hymns. I’m 34 and since I started attending mass regularly when I was 8, thats mostly what i’ve been acustomed too. There are many that I like and don’t find them inappropriate.

 

[benedictgal]

Do you think its likely that younger catholics, those younger than 40 favor contemporary hymns and and are less likely to think that they are not ok to sing at mass than more traditional hymns. I’m 34 and since I started attending mass regularly when I was 8, thats mostly what i’ve been acustomed too. There are many that I like and don’t find them inappropriate.

I am not too terribly removed from the age group in question. Even when I was a part of the bracket, I did not find the contemporary stuff appealing. In fact, I found it appalling. When I was in college, I was a member of a parish staffed by Paulists that was literally across the street from the University. Oddly enough, the music at Mass was Traditional, quite the contrary to the Paulist mode of theology. Even the “contemporary” choir was not all that contemporary. We used the old Worship III hymnals (before the PC vandals took over and completely gutted the beauty out of the hymns).

In my current parish, we use Spirit and Song for the afternoon Mass. OCP does a great marketing job and ensures, through its liturgical planning guide, Today’s Liturgy, that the songs from their stable writers are used, as opposed to anything traditional. Thus, what you hear at Mass is at the subliminal prompting of OCP.

Oddly enough, though, the choir that uses S and S is not in the age bracket you mention. They are middle aged, late 40s-early 60s. Even the age bracket you cited that attends this Mass does not sing. When the choir is absent, my parochial vicar (when he celebrates this particular Mass) defaults to traditional hymns. Everyone sings at that point, young and old. You don’t hear that same group singing at all when the choir is there.

 

[musicality]

I’m perfectly ok with both types of music.

I think that there is an important question to ask though–Are parishioners getting something out of the music?

By answering this question we can further assess what type of songs are best for that parish or particular Mass.

A lot of this comes down to how well people understand the words they are singing!
Best case scenario: they are singing because they understand and believe the words they are singing.

That’s why I really don’t have a preference–I understand and believe the words I am singing to most songs out there, but there are some who prefer contemporary songs because frankly, they’re contemporary. They are written in a language that younger people are more in tune to.

 

[SMHW]

Do you think its likely that younger catholics, those younger than 40 favor contemporary hymns and and are less likely to think that they are not ok to sing at mass than more traditional hymns. I’m 34 and since I started attending mass regularly when I was 8, thats mostly what i’ve been acustomed too. There are many that I like and don’t find them inappropriate.

I don’t think the age of Catholics has much to do with it. There are people of all age groups who prefer contemporary music and plenty of people of all age groups who prefer more traditional music. And there are people of all age groups who like both. If age is a factor in separating the groups I would be temped to suggest that it is the older people who prefer contemporary music.

 

[Canto]

Being younger than 40 I find modern hymns too hard to sing - that is the most most most important point.

Then I find the lyrics dull and the melodies boring but that is subjective I know. There is the odd one fine outside of Mass but not for Mass.

I’m with Vat II and the Popes prior and since in my belief that we should activley sing the Mass and sing it in Latin (the propers and ordinaries, the rest can be in English!) - Antiphons, Kyrie, Gloria, Alleluia, Our Father, Sanctus, Agnus Dei. The simple chants when sung sound so beautiful (subjective I know) and being easier to sing (no quater beat rests like some modern songs) helps too.

 

[angelsdefendus]

As a 30yr old… the contemporary hymns do a couple of things I think:

1. They “cheese” up the mass. For some reason older “modernist” types think that using “Contemporary” songs will help DRAW younger people to the mass. Unless you are using VERY contemporary music, you arent going to do that. Most of the ACTUAL contemp. music that is Christian, isn’t very Catholic and isn’t very appropriate in the setting of a Mass. Therefore I think using contemporary hymns is often COUNTER productive to its intended meaning.
2. The juxtaposition of a modern hymn against the Kyrie, Sanctus, or Agnus Dei is unsettling. The only way to make the mass seem congruent when using modern hymns is to then “modernize” the more sacred and ancients portions as well… hence the slippery slope analogy comes into play.
3. When we modernize the music… we are sending a subtle and subliminal message to younger mass attendees that the mass is malleable and in NEED of modernization to remain relevant. This isn’t true… and only hurts the mass and the attendees perception of it. (See #1.)

Someone below said something about “Are WE getting something out of the music.” I think this is the wrong way to look at the music, or any part of the mass for that matter. I hold this belief because in the “Spirit of the Liturgy” Pope Benedict (as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger) explains the importance and purpose of the music and the mass. Music is not FOR US, it is FOR GOD. Therefore… we should find things that exemplify the worship of God within the CONTEXT of the mass.

Music plays a purpose in the Mass, and the MASS isn’t for us. Mass is the worship of GOD. It isn’t a performance, entertainment, or show for us as parishioners. I think that contemporary music CAN play a role in mass, when done correctly. I do think that people like familiarity and tradition. I think that contemporary songs strike against those human inclinations and even though they are pleasant to the ear, do subconsciously affect how we view the mass in total.

 

[Dicerning]

I am not sure what “contemporary” means. If you are referring to the crud that is in OCP I wouldn’t call it all that contemporary. I call it leftovers from the boomers who seem to think their music is still “in”.

 

[Phemie]

I don’t think the age of Catholics has much to do with it. There are people of all age groups who prefer contemporary music and plenty of people of all age groups who prefer more traditional music. And there are people of all age groups who like both. If age is a factor in separating the groups I would be temped to suggest that it is the older people who prefer contemporary music.

I agree. I find that whenever you hear a choir director saying that the kids don’t want to sing the traditional stuff or can’t learn the chants, it usually means that he/she doesn’t want to sing the traditional hymns and will teach what he/she sang as a child of the 60s and early 70s even though the Church has progressed far beyond those early post-Vatican II songs.

Whenever I hear “the kids can’t be taught that ‘complicated’ music” I want to force them to watch this video:
youtube.com/watch?v=-0qQyW0W0Rw&feature=PlayList&p=29C8693C94345BBB&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=25

When kids are challenged they usually rise to the occasion.

 

[Newbie2]

A related question:

If there are relatively similar numbers of parishioners in a given parish that prefer the liturgical music to be either traditional, contemporary or a mix thereof, what effect might a change have i.e. trad to contemporary or vice-versa, as might happen with a change in the music director or pastor?

 

[peary1]

Do you think its likely that younger catholics, those younger than 40 favor contemporary hymns and and are less likely to think that they are not ok to sing at mass than more traditional hymns. I’m 34 and since I started attending mass regularly when I was 8, thats mostly what i’ve been acustomed too. There are many that I like and don’t find them inappropriate.

Welcome to the sad state of music in Catholic churches. I don’t believe there is anything now called a “contemporary hymn”. I do believe, however, that they are more properly referred to as “contemporary religious songs.” A hymn has a particular or specific meter of words. That is why you will see a group of numbers at the bottom of the page. This allows the melody to be exchanged with another hymn melody with the same metric variance.

Songs are not like that, for the most part. Worship and praise songs are different from the structure of hymns.

It is up to the music minister and the priest to choose appropriate songs or hymns for worship. These should contain words that are reflective of the Faith and should contain words of “we” rather than “I” (my opinion) since worship is a communal experience. There is no reason as to why the ‘older’ songs and hymns cannot be incorporated into worship. It’s a learning experience for the young who need to become attached to their own church history.

 

[musicality]

I agree. I find that whenever you hear a choir director saying that the kids don’t want to sing the traditional stuff or can’t learn the chants, it usually means that he/she doesn’t want to sing the traditional hymns and will teach what he/she sang as a child of the 60s and early 70s even though the Church has progressed far beyond those early post-Vatican II songs.

Whenever I hear “the kids can’t be taught that ‘complicated’ music” I want to force them to watch this video:
youtube.com/watch?v=-0qQyW0W0Rw&feature=PlayList&p=29C8693C94345BBB&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=25

When kids are challenged they usually rise to the occasion.

It’s not that kids can’t be taught complex music, it’s that most people cannot teach that sort of music to them! Music directors that I know cannot (or will not) require children to practice that much. For an ensemble of children to sing a song like that, it takes multiple rehearsals per week for several months. Most music directors are lucky if they get one rehearsal per week with all of their kids. Clearly, the director of that ensemble is very dedicated, as are those singing in the ensemble. You are not likely to see this in the majority of parishes.

 

[Phemie]

It’s not that kids can’t be taught complex music, it’s that most people cannot teach that sort of music to them! Music directors that I know cannot (or will not) require children to practice that much. For an ensemble of children to sing a song like that, it takes multiple rehearsals per week for several months. Most music directors are lucky if they get one rehearsal per week with all of their kids. Clearly, the director of that ensemble is very dedicated, as are those singing in the ensemble. You are not likely to see this in the majority of parishes.

Granted that particular arrangement is not going to be common with a parish children’s choir. Even our adult choir doesn’t sing in parts like that but in unison. The same melody can be sung in unison rather than in harmony and still sound beautiful and if kids car learn the stuff that came out of the 60s they can learn that.

Is it that much harder to learn “All Creatures of Our God and King” than it is to learn “Canticle of the Sun”? Don’t think so. In fact, I would think it much easier.

 

[benedictgal]

It’s not that kids can’t be taught complex music, it’s that most people cannot teach that sort of music to them! Music directors that I know cannot (or will not) require children to practice that much. For an ensemble of children to sing a song like that, it takes multiple rehearsals per week for several months. Most music directors are lucky if they get one rehearsal per week with all of their kids. Clearly, the director of that ensemble is very dedicated, as are those singing in the ensemble. You are not likely to see this in the majority of parishes.

However, the traditional songs are a lot easier to sing and carry a lot more theological depth than what is out there today. They are also great catechetical tools.

When the rector took charge of what was to become our Cathedral, he was not too pleased with the repertoire that the music director for the children’s choir had chosen. The songs were the OCP drek, complete with a banjo. It was horrible. He told the director that he needed to change the repertoire and use the organ, much to the director’s dismay. He also told the director that he needed to teach the children traditional, sacred music. The music director balked, but, followed the instruction. The children actually did much better with traditional music like “All Creatures of Our God and King”, “O Come, O Come Emmanuel”, “O Sun of Justice”, and even “Attende Domine” than with the OCP drek. They even did quite well with the Gloria from “A New Mass for a Congregation” and the other settings from “A Community Mass.” They did rather well with “I Received the Living God”, “At that First Eucharist” and “All Glory Laud and Honor.”

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

I can tell you with certainty that most younger catholics I know hate the contempo christian hymns. I remember being in middle school in Georgia. We attended a kind of liberal parish.

A couple times we missed earlier Mass for some reason and had to go to a young adult Mass. It had all these stupid, contemporary christian popular music pieces that have NO PLACE in a Mass. Needless to say, I just felt disgusted. It strikes me as insincere and irreverent. I don’t know why, but whenever I listen to hipster contempo christian music, it makes me feel like it’s so fake. Ew…Anyway, needless to say, we giggled about how stupid the songs were throughout the time the congregation was singing them.

I avoid teen Masses now, whenever possible. Mass glorifying God is not meant to be “cool” to society. It’s certainly not going to interest a teen in going to Mass. It turned me off to going to that Mass.

If you ask me, music for the Mass is music for the Mass. Kids know that. They aren’t stupid. They aren’t dumb enough to think contempo christian music is cool enough that they’ll want to sit through a Mass. It should never be about that. It’s like luring kids with candy. Kids know.

 

[Phemie]

However, the traditional songs are a lot easier to sing and carry a lot more theological depth than what is out there today. They are also great catechetical tools.

When the rector took charge of what was to become our Cathedral, he was not too pleased with the repertoire that the music director for the children’s choir had chosen. The songs were the OCP drek, complete with a banjo. It was horrible. He told the director that he needed to change the repertoire and use the organ, much to the director’s dismay. He also told the director that he needed to teach the children traditional, sacred music. The music director balked, but, followed the instruction. The children actually did much better with traditional music like “All Creatures of Our God and King”, “O Come, O Come Emmanuel”, “O Sun of Justice”, and even “Attende Domine” than with the OCP drek. They even did quite well with the Gloria from “A New Mass for a Congregation” and the other settings from “A Community Mass.” They did rather well with “I Received the Living God”, “At that First Eucharist” and “All Glory Laud and Honor.”

I don’t pretend to know much about music but there is a predictable structure to those old hymns that is not present in a lot of the newer stuff. I know that if I go to the Anglican Church and they start singing an old hymn that is unfamiliar to me, I can usually follow along after the first verse because of the structure.

I recall several years ago our youth choir used to sing the Lord’s Prayer to the tune of “I Don’t Know How to Love Him” from Jesus Christ Superstar. They never sang it the same way twice in a row because the music just didn’t fit the words. But the director thought it was just the coolest tune going. To some of us in the pew, the words that came to mind were: “He’s a man, he’s just a man; and I’ve had so many men before, in very many ways he’s just one more.” Worship? Praise? Don’t think so.

 

[benedictgal]

I don’t pretend to know much about music but there is a predictable structure to those old hymns that is not present in a lot of the newer stuff. I know that if I go to the Anglican Church and they start singing an old hymn that is unfamiliar to me, I can usually follow along after the first verse because of the structure.

I recall several years ago our youth choir used to sing the Lord’s Prayer to the tune of “I Don’t Know How to Love Him” from Jesus Christ Superstar. They never sang it the same way twice in a row because the music just didn’t fit the words. But the director thought it was just the coolest tune going. To some of us in the pew, the words that came to mind were: “He’s a man, he’s just a man; and I’ve had so many men before, in very many ways he’s just one more.” Worship? Praise? Don’t think so.

That is really bad.

 

[musicality]

Someone below said something about “Are WE getting something out of the music.” I think this is the wrong way to look at the music…

You’re right. I should clarify what I meant. ** If people do not mean the words that they are singing, they’re missing out on a big part of worshiping through song.**

The guy (Stuart Townend, who is not Catholic like most of the contemporary artists) who wrote the song linked below said the following:
source: crosswalk.com/1202207/

What is the most common misunderstanding about worship you see in the current worship climate, and how have you tried to reshape it?
Townend: I am concerned about our obsession with the “worship experience.” Don’t get me wrong. I am an advocate of the heartfelt, emotional expression of worship to God. I also absolutely believe in the activity of the Holy Spirit in our worship, revealing Christ afresh to us, stirring our hearts (making them “strangely warmed,” as Wesley once put it) and inspiring spiritual gifts among us. The danger now is that we are so focused on the experience our worship can become self-seeking and self-serving. When all of our songs are about how we feel and what we need, we’re missing the point. There is a wonderful, omnipotent God who deserves our highest praise, and how we feel about it is in many ways irrelevant! I want to encourage the expression of joy, passion and adoration, but I want those things to be the by-product of focusing on God - I don’t want them to become the subject matter. I’m trying to write songs that refer to us as little as possible, and to Him as much as possible!

youtube.com/watch?v=V2mn86HdQFY
I honestly think that this song, How Deep the Father’s Love for Us, is a good example of a contemporary song that would be useful during Mass.

 

[Monica4316]

Do you think its likely that younger catholics, those younger than 40 favor contemporary hymns and and are less likely to think that they are not ok to sing at mass than more traditional hymns. I’m 34 and since I started attending mass regularly when I was 8, thats mostly what i’ve been acustomed too. There are many that I like and don’t find them inappropriate.

Im 23 and I like traditional hymns