Contemporary Catholic Masses vs. Traditional

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Michael_Mayo said:
I have been Catholic for 60 years all over the country including California, Texas and Chicago and have never seen these “undeniable element”.
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I find it hard to believe that over that time period, one has never witnessed or seen choreography in Church. The beat of some of the music would inspire some, I would think. Perhaps they didn’t see that as dancing, though.
 
ProVobis said:
I find it hard to believe that over that time period, one has never witnessed or seen choreography in Church. The beat of some of the music would inspire some, I would think. Perhaps they didn’t see that as dancing, though.
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Every Mass is choreographed. In addition, music is supposed to inspire.
 
HiddenApostle23 said:
I was prepared to convert to Catholicism after leaving the Episcopal Church. However, I am bothered by the idea of the contemporary Catholic mass. I recently visited a Catholic Church that turned out to be contemporary. I feel that the Catholic Church I wanted to be a part of ended with Vatican II. I brought these to my RCIA group and they assured me that was because it was a “liberal” priest and diocese. However, I attended the other Catholic church in my town and it was very much contemporary also. I feel that it is unacceptable and not reverent and I cannot see why it is allowed. I feel that I am being driven toward Eastern Orthodoxy because they would never allow this in their churches. Are these churches anomalies or is this contemporary approach taking over?
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The Catholic Church sanctions the Ordinary Form of the Mass, and allows contemporary music in the liturgy.

The Catholic Church speaks for Jesus Himself. That’s why it’s allowed–because Jesus allows it.

Are you bothered by the idea of submitting to Jesus?
 
Cat said:
The Catholic Church sanctions the Ordinary Form of the Mass, and allows contemporary music in the liturgy.
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They are allowed, sure. But how long can one ignore the Entrance, Offertory, and Communion antiphons that were written specifically for that day?
 
ProVobis said:
I find it hard to believe that over that time period, one has never witnessed or seen choreography in Church. The beat of some of the music would inspire some, I would think. Perhaps they didn’t see that as dancing, though.
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I’ve never seen people dancing in a Catholic Mass; Ordinary Form, in Church. Although I have seen many worshippers sing passionately. Saying that, I have heard that when the ‘Sanctus’ is sung in Africa there is an amazing atmosphere of celebration! I would love to experience this. I love the sung ‘Gospel Acclamation’ at Mass - wonderful! I have seen choirs when singing in Abbeys singing with much expression as one does when one is putting one’s all into what one is celebrating. I find the Ordinary Form very warm occasions for myself ,and so inclusive for families, and I feel that it is warm also for foreign parishioners to be addressed by the priest. There is truly an atmosphere of togetherness at each one. We are really blessed to have such wonderful liturgies in which we receive Christ, which is the most important thing to remember. 🙂 If the Ordinary Form was beautiful enough for Saints such as St. Pio to Celebrate then it is beautiful enough for me to attend.
 
The masses I was referring to were conducted in church buildings that were so poorly adorned they made protestant churches I have been in look like St. John Lateran. The music was contemporary and the priests seemed like they didn’t take the mass seriously. I am trying to find out if I just unluckily stumbled upon two anomalies or if this is the new norm.
 
friardchips said:
I’ve never seen people dancing in a Catholic Mass;
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You mean you were never tempted to tap your feet a little when songs like “Gather Us In” were played? 😉

I had witnessed choreography to Peter Jones Gloria week after week, until apparently the parish was told to stop it, although I have to admit it was done with good intentions and taste. I know I’ll be attacked by some for saying that, though.

But, as the judges on American Bandstand used to say, “The music is easy to dance to.”

youtube.com/watch?v=Ae5vqTycsxs
 
HiddenApostle23 said:
I was prepared to convert to Catholicism after leaving the Episcopal Church. However, I am bothered by the idea of the contemporary Catholic mass. I recently visited a Catholic Church that turned out to be contemporary. I feel that the Catholic Church I wanted to be a part of ended with Vatican II. I brought these to my RCIA group and they assured me that was because it was a “liberal” priest and diocese. However, I attended the other Catholic church in my town and it was very much contemporary also. I feel that it is unacceptable and not reverent and I cannot see why it is allowed. I feel that I am being driven toward Eastern Orthodoxy because they would never allow this in their churches. Are these churches anomalies or is this contemporary approach taking over?
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It’s largely a product of culture. Please remember that the Latin Rite is universal, but not uniform. See a video of Pope Francis’ speech: youtube.com/watch?v=txlhEegKvco

St. Augustine once went to Rome from his diocese in Africa (perhaps Ge’ez), and when he returned, he was baffled by the difference in the Sacred Liturgy between the way it was done in his part of the world and how it was done in Rome. When St. Augustine asked St. Ambrose why there was such difference when the Church is to be united as one, St. Ambrose replied, “When in Rome, do as the Romans do.”

Have you considered joining a parish under the Anglican Ordinariate?
 
HiddenApostle23 said:
I was prepared to convert to Catholicism after leaving the Episcopal Church. However, I am bothered by the idea of the contemporary Catholic mass. I recently visited a Catholic Church that turned out to be contemporary. I feel that the Catholic Church I wanted to be a part of ended with Vatican II. I brought these to my RCIA group and they assured me that was because it was a “liberal” priest and diocese. However, I attended the other Catholic church in my town and it was very much contemporary also. I feel that it is unacceptable and not reverent and I cannot see why it is allowed. I feel that I am being driven toward Eastern Orthodoxy because they would never allow this in their churches. Are these churches anomalies or is this contemporary approach taking over?
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Have you considered joining an Eastern Catholic parish or a parish celebrating the TLM?
LisaB said:
The Catholic Church is THE Church that has the fullness of the Truth as revealed by God to the human race, so I don’t think that you are being called toward Eastern Orthodoxy. However, the Catholic Church has many rites, and you may look into an Eastern Catholic rite or attend the Extraordinary Form (Latin Mass of the Roman rite). Both are far less common than the novus ordo celebrated at most Catholic parishes, so it may take some searching (and driving) to find them and get to them, but I assure you, you’ll see a big difference. The novus ordo (i.e., the “regular” Mass in most parishes) is a valid Mass though.

If you decide to attend the Latin Mass, make sure it’s an approved one and not through SSPX because they are not in communion with Rome.

If you give us examples of what specifically you consider “unacceptable” in the Masses you attended, we’ll be able to tell you if it’s really due to the liberal diocese or if it’s a normal part of the novus ordo Mass. For example, liturgical dancing is not normal; female altar servers - normal and not an abuse. If you don’t like the former, go to another church down the street; if you don’t like to latter - go to the Extraordinary Form.
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Just a note, while not advised, the Church does allow people to fulfill their Sunday obligations at and receive communion at SSPX masses. Of course receiving confession, marriage, and the sacraments of initiation (baptism, confirmation, and first communion) there would be wrong.
 
HiddenApostle23 said:
The masses I was referring to were conducted in church buildings that were so poorly adorned they made protestant churches I have been in look like St. John Lateran. The music was contemporary and the priests seemed like they didn’t take the mass seriously. I am trying to find out if I just unluckily stumbled upon two anomalies or if this is the new norm.
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Sometimes to make a comment if you are new to a parish can seem a bit rude so maybe check a few Catholic Churches out in the area if you can’t handle it. I have to say that in the Parish Church I attend there is music - guitar, organ and some choir members, but it is done tastefully and respectfully. Not showy just well done. May I advise to maybe be a bit patient and look around and please not jump ship quite yet! 👍

By poorly adorned, do you mean a lack of statues?
 
Hi,

I move a lot for school/work and have been exposed to numerous styles of Mass (but never the dancing priest on a tricycle!).

Some advice.
  1. Ask here if someone who lived in your town can recommend a parish for you
  2. Try and be prepared to try numerous parishes if you have the option.
  3. Look for parishes that are more “fraternal” in nature ie; search if you have Carmelites nearby!
  4. Search for a Tridentine Latin Mass (This has been my solution after a long search in my current town!)
  5. Search for communities such as Benedictines nearby.
  6. Sometimes earlier Mass has less modernity even if the “high Mass” has a priest on a tricycle! Later Mass can vary as well.
Recently while traveling I was in a town with one Catholic Church. I went to Sunday Mass-maybe evening or Sat Vigil…can’t recall. Any way…R&R band-drums guitars contemporary music. Deacon and priest swaying with the music tapping feet. The Church itself was contemporary with a large plain cross with no corpus and only the small <1 foot tall procession cross has the Corpus. Don’t want to scare the kids I guess…. I could complain more…

As chance would have it I was traveling back on a a Holy Day of Obligation and was in the same town…. I had to attend the same church BUT completely different! Same priest as I recall but VERY solemn and traditional!

As a final thought don’t become an over scrupulous, Mass critic. I had been like that for a while and found myself criticizing under my breath left and right and without fail those I did have such feelings towards were very warm and kind to me after Mass!

Best of luck in your search!

EP
 
ProVobis said:
You mean you were never tempted to tap your feet a little when songs like “Gather Us In” were played? 😉

I had witnessed choreography to Peter Jones Gloria week after week, until apparently the parish was told to stop it, although I have to admit it was done with good intentions and taste. I know I’ll be attacked by some for saying that, though.

But, as the judges on American Bandstand used to say, “The music is easy to dance to.”

youtube.com/watch?v=Ae5vqTycsxs
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Well, Our Lady is featured as tapping away and dancing lightly in the image of Our Lady of Guadeloupe with a joyful lightness of Spirit. Remember, that Our Lady would have taken Jesus to Jewish festivals and He might have even danced, and some say (me - the unroyal ‘we’) that to live according to a life lived in God is a bit like dancing to the rhythm of God’s love. Anyway, I am not into guitar Christian music for the most part, apart from the music in my parish Church, and a handful of Taize songs. Sometimes I find other Church’s musician’s efforts a bit naff - but it is not the fault of the music and at least they are trying. Because we don’t like it, doesn’t mean God doesn’t appreciate their efforts!
Not going to watch that youtube vid as I have a feeling you have posted something that is cringe/wince material. 😃 Nevertheless, people shouldn’t feel that the sometimes dodgy musical efforts is a reason not to attend a certain Mass. Maybe also it is not just about us? It is about supporting the community. 🤷 To steal another phrase: ‘to enjoy or endure’, God will be there.
 
Paleocon said:
Have you considered joining an Eastern Catholic parish or a parish celebrating the TLM?

Just a note, while not advised, the Church does allow people to fulfill their Sunday obligations at and receive communion at SSPX masses. Of course receiving confession, marriage, and the sacraments of initiation (baptism, confirmation, and first communion) there would be wrong.
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I don’t think this applies if there is a legitimate Mass nearby…even if contemporary or you just don’t like the style/priest etc….

This “dispensation” (not sure that’s the correct term) would only apply if there is NO other option.

I checked this out as as chance would have it there is FSSP and SSPX within 2 mile sof each other where I live now! The FSSP has a 7am daily Mass but SSPX a 9am daily Mass… I wanted to sleep in but don’t have the option….as I understand it anyway.

Thanks,

EP
 
El_PAso said:
I don’t think this applies if there is a legitimate Mass nearby…even if contemporary or you just don’t like the style/priest etc….

This “dispensation” (not sure that’s the correct term) would only apply if there is NO other option.

I checked this out as as chance would have it there is FSSP and SSPX within 2 mile sof each other where I live now! The FSSP has a 7am daily Mass but SSPX a 9am daily Mass… I wanted to sleep in but don’t have the option….as I understand it anyway.

Thanks,

EP
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Actually the PCED has held that “Catholics who frequent the chapels of the Society of St. Pius X do not incur any sin or canonical delict by doing so.”

renewamerica.com/columns/mershon/080711

So it is not a matter of dispensation. Of course they did advice against such attendance.
 
Paleocon said:
Actually the PCED has held that “Catholics who frequent the chapels of the Society of St. Pius X do not incur any sin or canonical delict by doing so.”

renewamerica.com/columns/mershon/080711

So it is not a matter of dispensation. Of course they did advice against such attendance.
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Perhaps I am reading it all wrong but in 2009 Pope Benedict XVI stated in vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20090310_remissione-scomunica_en.html

“Until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers - even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty - do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.”

I’m sure there are MANY threads on this topic but I am confident our Sunday obligation is NOT fulfilled by attending SSPX Mass UNLESS there is NO other Masses available…

Thanks,

EP
 
El_PAso said:
Perhaps I am reading it all wrong but in 2009 Pope Benedict XVI stated in vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20090310_remissione-scomunica_en.html

“Until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers - even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty - do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.”

I’m sure there are MANY threads on this topic but I am confident our Sunday obligation is NOT fulfilled by attending SSPX Mass UNLESS there is NO other Masses available…

Thanks,

EP
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Well the Vatican says it is.
 
Paleocon said:
Well the Vatican says it is.
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What I posted is a Vatican document….

But I think this discussion is not helping the OP and I wont further this side discussion.

If you’d like please invite me to alternative thread and we can continue as I still proclaim a bit of confusion on the matter.

Thanks,

EP
 
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