Contemporary Doesn't Have to Be Bad

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This thread is prompted by an exchange I had with another poster about Cardinal Rajnith’s remarks regarding “the people’s altar.” I rather suspect the Cardinal was talking about a movable table, which I also don’t care for, but then I stated that I do not particularly care for the altars that are situated against the wall, primarily because the priest cannot walk around them to incense them, because I rather like free-standing altars anyway, as they seem to continue the traditions we are lead to believe the Jews had in regard to what their altar(s) looked like, and because the wall altars, to me at any rate, sometimes look like sideboards (I don’t intend that as an insult, I just think some do). It got me to thinking:

Much of what has happened in the “wreckovation” of our sanctuaries, really, MOST of it, has been egregious. That doesn’t mean that everything contemporary is bad, however. I wanted to post pictures here of what I’m talking about, but I’m inept at doing the photo thing, so I’ve provided a link for people to go to. I hope others will post pictures, however, of relatively CONTEMPORARY churches that are unique and beautiful, but which do not depart radically from the Church’s traditions. “Contemporary,” of course, is relative. The Church I’ve selected is actually about 70-80 years old.

I think the National Shrine of the Little Flower in Royal Oak, Michigan, is a “contemporary” church that manages to enhance reverence and the traditions of the Church. It’s in Art Deco style, which I normally don’t care all that much for…the prettiest churches to ME are the California Missions and I think all new churches in the southwest kind of owe it to that heritage to draw on it. I think it “works,” however, and it’s Altar is precisely the kind I prefer (not that the Holy Father or the Bishops are lined up to find out what I think). Check out the link:
shrinechurch.com/index.htm
 
JKirkLVNV said:
This thread is prompted by an exchange I had with another poster about Cardinal Rajnith’s remarks regarding “the people’s altar.” I rather suspect the Cardinal was talking about a movable table, which I also don’t care for, but then I stated that I do not particularly care for the altars that are situated against the wall, primarily because the priest cannot walk around them to incense them, because I rather like free-standing altars anyway, as they seem to continue the traditions we are lead to believe the Jews had in regard to what their altar(s) looked like, and because the wall altars, to me at any rate, sometimes look like sideboards (I don’t intend that as an insult, I just think some do). It got me to thinking:

Much of what has happened in the “wreckovation” of our sanctuaries, really, MOST of it, has been egregious. That doesn’t mean that everything contemporary is bad, however. I wanted to post pictures here of what I’m talking about, but I’m inept at doing the photo thing, so I’ve provided a link for people to go to. I hope others will post pictures, however, of relatively CONTEMPORARY churches that are unique and beautiful, but which do not depart radically from the Church’s traditions. “Contemporary,” of course, is relative. The Church I’ve selected is actually about 70-80 years old.

I think the National Shrine of the Little Flower in Royal Oak, Michigan, is a “contemporary” church that manages to enhance reverence and the traditions of the Church. It’s in Art Deco style, which I normally don’t care all that much for…the prettiest churches to ME are the California Missions and I think all new churches in the southwest kind of owe it to that heritage to draw on it. I think it “works,” however, and it’s Altar is precisely the kind I prefer (not that the Holy Father or the Bishops are lined up to find out what I think). Check out the link:
shrinechurch.com/index.htm
Click to expand...
From the website, what exactly do these terms mean?
Saturday Vigils:
4:30 pm Cantor and organ
6:30 pm Vigil of Sunday Band
Sundays:
7:30 am Cantor and organ
**9:00 am Shrine Folk Group **
10:45 am Shrine Parish Choir
and organ
12:30 pm Cantor
and organ or piano
6:00 pm **Sunday Night Six o’clock Band **

I have never heard of a Mass band before. or a Folk group,for that matter although I suspect Iknow what it is.
 
Bigcat71 said:
From the website, what exactly do these terms mean?
Saturday Vigils:
4:30 pm Cantor and organ
6:30 pm Vigil of Sunday Band
Sundays:
7:30 am Cantor and organ
**9:00 am Shrine Folk Group **
10:45 am Shrine Parish Choir
and organ
12:30 pm Cantor
and organ or piano
6:00 pm **Sunday Night Six o’clock Band **

I have never heard of a Mass band before. or a Folk group,for that matter although I suspect Iknow what it is.
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Bleah, I suspect we both do! I’m only refering to the architecture (though I shudder to think where they might station either the band or the folk group).
 
Love_Divine said:
Is this the architecture you’re referring to???
http://www.shrinechurch.com/photo_gallery/photo_albums/EasterVigilMass2011/eastervigilmass3.jpg

Personally, I find the “in a circle” around the altar seating arrangement abhorrent. I have a hard enough time with semi-circular or winged seating arrangements in church.

Oh, and no extra points for the strewn toilet paper decor.
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No, the banners are no good, I agee. Thanks for the comment on the architecture, though. If you have not yet, look at the exterior picts, particularly the bell tower.

As I said, Art Deco isn’t MY thing, necessarily, so your opinion on “round” is certainly valid. There are old and venerable churches that are round, however.

See them by country: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round_church:
 
LOL, Jkirk,

For the last 8 minutes I have been trying to help you out. I looked at the round churches… bleh. I couldn’t find one I like, but surely there must be nice contemporary churches around.
 
I understand what you mean by the shelf thing…however,

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

you have to admit that this is one AMAZING looking shelf!

👍
 
TrueLight said:
LOL, Jkirk,

For the last 8 minutes I have been trying to help you out. I looked at the round churches… bleh. I couldn’t find one I like, but surely there must be nice contemporary churches around.
Click to expand...
Did you look at the Wiki entry for round churches? Church of the Holy Sepulchre in England is a defunct Anglican parish, but if you check when it was built (800 years ago), it turns out it’s really OURS! I think if the Anglican’s can’t fill it, they should give it back!
 
JKirkLVNV said:
Did you look at the Wiki entry for round churches? Church of the Holy Sepulchre in England is a defunct Anglican parish, but if you check when it was built (800 years ago), it turns out it’s really OURS! I think if the Anglican’s can’t fill it, they should give it back!
Click to expand...
I actually skipped it because it is Anglican. The architecture of the interior is beautiful. Don’t like the chairs though.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5346/holysepulchre1.jpg
 
JKirkLVNV said:
As I said, Art Deco isn’t MY thing, necessarily, so your opinion on “round” is certainly valid. There are old and venerable churches that are round, however.

See them by country: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round_church:
Click to expand...
Difference between older churches which were in a circular shape and the example given here, is that the sanctuaries of the older churches were decidedly at one end of the church; as opposed to the altar table in the very center, surrounded by the congregation. I’m firmly in the camp that “on Altar I find God while on a table I find bread”, not saying that a valid Mass cannot be said on (a properly consecrated) altar table, only that it seems to suggest a communal meal or supper before the Sacrifice of Christ’s Body and Blood.
JKirkLVNV said:
Did you look at the Wiki entry for round churches? Church of the Holy Sepulchre in England is a defunct Anglican parish, but if you check when it was built (800 years ago), it turns out it’s really OURS! I think if the Anglican’s can’t fill it, they should give it back!
Click to expand...
sigh… ALL of them were ours, yet sadly stolen by the Anglican Church under the orders of Henry VIII. I can’t wait for the day that the chants and prayers of the Tridentine Mass, the Sarum rite or York Use grace the walls of Canterbury Cathedral and Westminster abbey once more!
 
Crusading_Canuk said:
sigh… ALL of them were ours, yet sadly stolen by the Anglican Church under the orders of Henry VIII. I can’t wait for the day that the chants and prayers of the Tridentine Mass, the Sarum rite or York Use grace the walls of Canterbury Cathedral and Westminster abbey once more!
Click to expand...
Very true. Before the Reformation the Catholic Church actually owned about 20% of the property in England. (It was heavily under the Latin and French influence back then.)

I share your sentiments about the Sarum and Tridentine Rite.

BTW, here is the Church in London where I made my first communion in 1954. Of course, it was before the table-altar was moved in there and the communion rail removed.

stmarys-clapham.org.uk/images/CAGX8TOF.jpg
 
ProVobis said:
Very true. Before the Reformation the Catholic Church actually owned about 20% of the property in England. (It was heavily under the Latin and French influence back then.)

I share your sentiments about the Sarum and Tridentine Rite.

BTW, here is the Church in London where I made my first communion in 1954. Of course, it was before the table-altar was moved in there and the communion rail removed.

stmarys-clapham.org.uk/images/CAGX8TOF.jpg
Click to expand...
Yes and despite the modern myth we never hoarded the land, we held it for God and allowed the people to use it!

In my opinion as (along with so much else) the Sarum rite and York use were amongst those treasures stolen from the English people, they should be the liturgies given back to them as Anglicans convert to the Church.

The church you made your first communion in is absolutely beautiful! Despite the lack of an altar rail and the table in from of the High Altar (I’m sure many here know my feeling regarding those…) it still manages to inspire the reverence due to any house of the Lord! Personally I’ve always been more attracted to English Gothic architecture in ecclesiastical buildings as opposed to the styles which developed on the continent (not saying that I don’t appreciate churches in mainland Europe); I guess it’s just a bit of the high tory poking through! 😃
 
ProVobis said:
Very true. Before the Reformation the Catholic Church actually owned about 20% of the property in England. (It was heavily under the Latin and French influence back then.)

I share your sentiments about the Sarum and Tridentine Rite.

BTW, here is the Church in London where I made my first communion in 1954. Of course, it was before the table-altar was moved in there and the communion rail removed.

stmarys-clapham.org.uk/images/CAGX8TOF.jpg
Click to expand...
Oh, that IS lovely…I wish I’d known it was there, the only Catholic churches I saw in London were Westminster Cathedral and the Oratory.
 
Crusading_Canuk said:
The church you made your first communion in is absolutely beautiful! Despite the lack of an altar rail and the table in from of the High Altar (I’m sure many here know my feeling regarding those…) it still manages to inspire the reverence due to any house of the Lord! Personally I’ve always been more attracted to English Gothic architecture in ecclesiastical buildings as opposed to the styles which developed on the continent (not saying that I don’t appreciate churches in mainland Europe); I guess it’s just a bit of the high tory poking through! 😃
Click to expand...
There’s some interesting history behind that church, if you have the time to read it, of course.

stmarys-clapham.org.uk/history.html
 
The first thing I read on the National Shrine of the Little Flower webpage was “Healing Service.” It was then I knew I probably wouldn’t like the rest of the church… Its exterior reminds me more of the San Jacinto Monument than a church.
 
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