Content of books

[dominicandinah]

I can’t honestly see how reading a book no matter what its content is going to lead you to sin. If you’re going to be worried about anything, it’s going to be bad writing and a boring story. There are plenty of books out there that have a lot of sexual content, but have been written with a Catholic perspective, two that I can think of are Brideshead Revisited by Evelyn Waugh and The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe. It would be one boring story that had a main character that does the right thing all the time.

Kathrin you sound like a bookworm, so may I suggest (along with the above two books) The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin. It will give you something much deeper to think about that people having extra or pre-marital affairs.

Read any book you want, you’re not going to be sinning.

@EmeraldWings and revert_jen
What do you guys do when you get home? Twiddle your thumbs and wait to go to bed time?

“You honestly don’t see how reading a book, no matter what’s content, is going to lead you to sin”…

Well, I would think it would lead someone to sin if they were aroused by the sexual nature of the book and then, well, for lack of a more delicate term…relieved themselves by sexual gratification. I would consider the content leading them to sin…

 

[Shadark]

If it’s going to be that easy to get you off, you better not go outside, or turn on the TV or even think for that matter. Perhaps you should just stay catatonic in bed all day.

 

[dominicandinah]

If it’s going to be that easy to get you off, you better not go outside, or turn on the TV or even think for that matter. Perhaps you should just stay catatonic in bed all day.

There is NO reason to be sarcastic or crude!!

I wasn’t referring to a book that just mentions sex, but obviously going into graphic detail might arouse someone. Good for you if you are immune to all of this, but there are plenty of people that aren’t…hence all the men with porn addiction. Pornography is more than pictures…it can also include books or written material with sexually explicit descriptions…all meant to incite sexual desire.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

If it’s going to be that easy to get you off, you better not go outside, or turn on the TV or even think for that matter. Perhaps you should just stay catatonic in bed all day.

There is NO reason to be sarcastic or crude!!

I wasn’t referring to a book that just mentions sex, but obviously going into graphic detail might arouse someone. Good for you if you are immune to all of this, but there are plenty of people that aren’t…hence all the men with porn addiction. Pornography is more than pictures…it can also include books or written material with sexually explicit descriptions…all meant to incite sexual desire.

Frankly, I find myself in the middle of you two. On one hand, Shadark’s got a point. When you start wondering if reading about sin is an occasion of sin, you might come to a realization that just being alive in this imperfect world, filled with us imperfect mortals, is an occasion of sin. The question though is, how far should we dare ourselves with what religious folks call “spiritual danger”? Can we handle walking the tightrope? And if not, are we prepared to patch ourselves up should we fall?

 

[dominicandinah]

Frankly, I find myself in the middle of you two. On one hand, Shadark’s got a point. When you start wondering if reading about sin is an occasion of sin, you might come to a realization that just being alive in this imperfect world, filled with us imperfect mortals, is an occasion of sin. The question though is, how far should we dare ourselves with what religious folks call “spiritual danger”? Can we handle walking the tightrope? And if not, are we prepared to patch ourselves up should we fall?

Okay, perhaps it’s because I’m seeing it like this: If you purposely read a “smut-filled” novel for the purpose of becoming sexually aroused, or choose to read a book that contains sexual content that might arouse you, and then you commit a sin because of it…well, you’ve purposely lead yourself into sin. People don’t view pornography with the intention of redecorating their bedroom/home based on the decor in the background of the film…they view it to become aroused, plain and simple.

 

[Shadark]

Frankly, I find myself in the middle of you two. On one hand, Shadark’s got a point. When you start wondering if reading about sin is an occasion of sin, you might come to a realization that just being alive in this imperfect world, filled with us imperfect mortals, is an occasion of sin. The question though is, how far should we dare ourselves with what religious folks call “spiritual danger”? Can we handle walking the tightrope? And if not, are we prepared to patch ourselves up should we fall?

Aye, but you need to be able to temper yourself against spiritual danger. A good book should make you stop at the end of a chapter and have you contemplate what has just happened, and yes sometimes they are in the context of a sex scene. However the plot moves on, and you’ve generally forgotten about it within a minute. Sex scenes when used in a story are generally part of a plot device that is a climax of tension between two characters. For the reader it concludes this tension and allows the story to move forward.

I wasn’t referring to a book that just mentions sex, but obviously going into graphic detail might arouse someone. Good for you if you are immune to all of this, but there are plenty of people that aren’t…hence all the men with porn addiction. Pornography is more than pictures…it can also include books or written material with sexually explicit descriptions…all meant to incite sexual desire.

You are trying to blur the lines between literature and pornographic material; they are mutually exclusive materials. Porn is sex for the sake of sex. Sex in literature is part of the plot device and is not intended to arouse the reader. If the reader is going to run off to masturbate every time they read about sex, or a pair bare breasts or a penis, then they need to learn more self-control.

 

[dominicandinah]

Aye, but you need to be able to temper yourself against spiritual danger. A good book should make you stop at the end of a chapter and have you contemplate what has just happened, and yes sometimes they are in the context of a sex scene. However the plot moves on, and you’ve generally forgotten about it within a minute. Sex scenes when used in a story are generally part of a plot device that is a climax of tension between two characters. For the reader it concludes this tension and allows the story to move forward.

You are trying to blur the lines between literature and pornographic material; they are mutually exclusive materials. Porn is sex for the sake of sex. Sex in literature is part of the plot device and is not intended to arouse the reader. If the reader is going to run off to masturbate every time they read about sex, or a pair bare breasts or a penis, then they need to learn more self-control.

Agreed! But there is a difference between a sex scene mentioned in a novel for the sake of the story line or plot and a “gratuitous” sex scene, usually graphically described, that’s put there to make the book “racy” for the sole purpose of making it sexually exciting…I’m sure we both know the difference.

 

[Shadark]

I have very rarely (if at all) come across a graphic written sex scene in a novel that was out of context with the storyline. The only one I can think of was in a Terry Goodkind novel where the main character was having sex with his wife, but she was having her period at the same time. Can’t say I was that aroused… Actually, I do concede he writes a lot of pointless sex scenes (and novels), which people over on the Westeros forums have broken down for very hilarious reading.

 

[dominicandinah]

I have very rarely (if at all) come across a graphic written sex scene in a novel that was out of context with the storyline. The only one I can think of was in a Terry Goodkind novel where the main character was having sex with his wife, but she was having her period at the same time. Can’t say I was that aroused… Actually, I do concede he writes a lot of pointless sex scenes (and novels), which people over on the Westeros forums have broken down for very hilarious reading.

But you are probably reading what is considered “literature”…not a Nora Roberts novel of (heaven forbid) a “bodice-ripper” with a Fabio lookalike on the cover…

 

[Shadark]

I wouldn’t flatter Goodkind by calling any of his novels literature (his later ones anyway). I think you will find that when you read about a sex scene, even if it is graphic, you won’t be that put out by it. Sometimes you wonder if the authors have even had sex.

 

[Joe_5859]

Thank you

So could I say, if I feel sure that it will not cause me to sin to read a book, I am allowed to read it without the reading itself being a sin?

Kathrin

Generally speaking, I would say “Yes, it is allowed.” I will offer one caveat, though. We do need to be vigilant regarding a possible cumulative corrosive effect of the media we consume.

For example, perhaps reading one novel where a character engages in fornication will not tempt us at all to commit the sin of fornication. However, by reading 100 novels where characters engage in fornication, we may find that fornication suddenly doesn’t seem like a sin to us anymore, so long as the two people really love each other and are “ready” for it.

Thus, even though reading any one of those 100 novels wasn’t really sinful per se, we can find that all of them taken together have had a harmful effect on us. Each book slowly eroded our moral core until our defenses were gone.

Now, in order for this to happen, there has to be much more going on (or rather not going on) in our spiritual life besides simply reading a few novels. If we pray daily, frequent the sacraments, and keep trying to learn and understand the teachings of the Church, then we can immunize ourselves to these outside influences. We never want to get too smug in our own holiness that we think we could never be influenced by such things. But we needn’t live in constant fear that we will bow to every wind of fashion that blows by.

 

[Kathrin]

Yeah, nit’s not like I seek out novels that have sexual content.
The question is more: If a book I happen to be reading turns out to have some content like that (not graphicly pornographic, just mentioning things), do I have to stop reading it, even though I would loike to keep reading for other reasons.

There have been occasions where I decided I did have to stop reading something that I felt wasn’t good for me. But that we can usually feel very fast.

OK, that was the not so scrupulous side speaking.

 

[Shadark]

Can you give an example of what you consider content that would make you put down the book?

If there is something that you don’t agree with that is said or happens in the book, and if it offends or disturbs you that much, don’t stop reading. Finish the book, then go write a review of it and post it on Amazon or on here in the book section. Or look for a forum where the book is being discussed. You’ll find that in most cases you are very agreeable with other readers.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Aye, but you need to be able to temper yourself against spiritual danger. A good book should make you stop at the end of a chapter and have you contemplate what has just happened, and yes sometimes they are in the context of a sex scene. However the plot moves on, and you’ve generally forgotten about it within a minute. Sex scenes when used in a story are generally part of a plot device that is a climax of tension between two characters. For the reader it concludes this tension and allows the story to move forward.

I suppose for what passes as good literature you are absolutely right. I do believe in the existence of rather pointless works who are filled with nothing but smut. Then again, I’ve only found it in fanfiction so I might be even wrong about that.

You are trying to blur the lines between literature and pornographic material; they are mutually exclusive materials. Porn is sex for the sake of sex. Sex in literature is part of the plot device and is not intended to arouse the reader. If the reader is going to run off to masturbate every time they read about sex, or a pair bare breasts or a penis, then they need to learn more self-control.

Ditto. Interesting enough though, the Japanese have these dating sim games (also known as “visual novels”) which are often pornographic (as sex for the sake of sex). 95% of the time, I find myself wanting to ram my head into a desk and put a gun to it whenever someone from my circle of Jap-cartoon nerds brings one. 5% of the time though, there comes a game that becomes such a huge hit that even those who don’t know about its pornographic content have heard of it. What’s even freakier is that this makes the developers release a non-pornographic version of the game and it becomes even more popular that it becomes a sort of franchise.

One thing I notice though about these few but intriguing gems in this geeky subculture is that they don’t portray sex for the sake of sex. Instead, as you have said, they turned it into a plot-device. People end up caring more about the characters and the story itself, than a collection of cartoon porn scenes. Heck, they don’t even go back to those scenes anymore. They care about if the main dude saves the world or ends up confessing etc.

 

[shondrea]

If you search under the Ask and Apologiust forum, you will see many, many questions like this. You can search them by using words like, watch, read, secular and fiction.

There is not sin in reading a book where the characters are, you know, HUMAN, and make human choices, make human stumbles and human sins. BUT, if something in there is an occasion of sin for you, you should AVOID IT. BUT, this is different for each person. What causes one person to stumble may be fine for another.

There’s also the difference between portraying and condoning. There’s a difference between reading a book that has a gay character or shows that two people are “partners”, and a book that acts as a pro-gay political platform.

Actively seeking explicitly sexual or pornographic material, however, is never permitted.

Plenty of good, devout Catholics have written dark or violent fiction, such as popular bestselling author Dean Koontz.

You aren’t alone here, honey! When getting back into the faith, i was scrupulous over this like WOW. But this website and others helped me be able to enjoy good, entertaining, thrilling novels with a well formed conscience. I HAVE trimmed out a few things that I now honestly feel would not be good for me, things that, while possibly PERFECTLY FINE for others, would lead me into temptation. But you know what? I don’t miss it! I simply found a new series to pick up, one that’s not only a temptation to sin, but is MUCH better written!

You could also check out decentfilms.com… It has an AMAZING FAQ page addressing your issues here!

 

[shondrea]

One othere thing to keep in mine when selecting reading material is to be able to discern WHY you’re drawn to paricular genres. usually, this is straightforward and harmless. Girls love gushy romance novels more than guys, guys might prefer a thriller,. But I mean more specific.

Take, for example, true crime novels, or books written about infamous seriel killers, crimes, and murders. There are many reasons a person may read these. For example, I enjoy them because I’m a psychology buff. I love psychology, development, sociology, abnormal psychology…I love seeing how the human mind works, and what makes people do things they do. I enjoy learning about the mental functioning of psychopaths and killers. I love seeing what happened in their lives to turn them to what they did. It’s fascinating.

However, if I were to read them for the sole purpose of reading about dismemberd corpses and bones in acid and whatnot…well, I don’t know if I’d call it sin, but it’s something that should be worrisome. Of course, all humans have a dark curiosity, and many people find theselves Googleing the Holocaust, Unit 731 and the like to settle a dark, morbid curiosity. And even with this, it can be educational, teaching History, albeit a very dark, brutal and disturbing one,

But if you’re one who gets pleasure or enjoyment at reading about the sadistic things that happened to these people, rather than having an interest into the intents behind them, it could be a problem.

Take also the young girl who may read mother’s romance or old Judy Blume books out of curioosity. Perhaos she’s discovering sexuality and becoming a woman and no one is around to guide her. She may turn to books to teach her. I know as a middle school girl I would do this. I’d check out “dirty” books form the library, because I’d just discovered where babies come from, and wanted to learn more. Now, don’t jump down my throat, I’m NOT condoning this. Because it screwed me up. But I’m saying that, for that intention, with the girls naiivete and innocence, I don’t think it would be a sin. But as she got older, and read the same books for the point of arousal, then it would be a sin.

it’s 1 am and I’m rambleing.

 

[Viki63]

There are several writers I enjoy (Dean Koontz is one) whose violent or sexual scenes I find offensive or problematic. So I skip those parts. If the book ends up having too many of those scenes, I give up on the book.
But I like the parts describing how the heroes find their ways out of impossible situations and defeat the villains. Right now I’m re-reading The Lord of the Rings, which is excellent and thank heavens you don’t have to worry about risque situations.
Besides, the problematic parts are often boring. The marital act should be a private event, like taking a shower. Who wants to read about the act of showering over and over?

 

[revert_jen]

I can’t honestly see how reading a book no matter what its content is going to lead you to sin.

The fact that you don’t understand something does not make it nonexistent.

If you are never tempted to sin by reading a book, you are fortunate. But many people are influenced by the books they read. In the same way that I am moved in the direction of a rather grim and joyless usefulness by reading Jane Eyre, I can be moved to an atitude disposing me toward bad behavior (rather than just annoying behavior as above) by reading the wrong books. (Please don’t comment on whether Jane Eyre should make me tend toward behaving that way–in practice, I have found that it does, which is why I don’t read it very often.) And I have certainly known people who read romance novels because they were stimulated by the sex. Remembering that it is not only sinful to have sex outside marriage, it is also sinful to fantasize about it (without any physical actions, which are a separate question), these people lead themselves to sin by what they read.

In addition, a steady diet or writers who take it for granted that fornication, or stealing, or murder, or whatever are not only commonplace but can be commendable, can lead a person to take them less seriously, which makes it harder to resist temptation when it comes. We are to avoid putting ourselves in situations that makes it unnecessarily harder for us to resist temptation. (This is basically just a restatement of Joe 5859’s point, with which I agree.)

I also agree with Joe 5859 that if we are engaging in other activities that nourish our relationship with God (prayer, sacraments, etc.) the danger is decreased.

If you’re going to be worried about anything, it’s going to be bad writing and a boring story.

The OP didn’t ask if there was anything wrong with reading a boring story. Who needs to ask advice about that? Anyway, a book that leads you to sin is much worse than something that just bores you.

Read any book you want, you’re not going to be sinning.

I’m afraid that that is not in accord with Catholic teaching, which is what the OP wanted to know about, or she wouldn’t have asked on a Catholic forum. I also say from personal experience that it is not in accord with reality, but then, Catholic teaching and reality do so often coincide.

@EmeraldWings and revert_jen
What do you guys do when you get home? Twiddle your thumbs and wait to go to bed time?

I have lots of interests that aren’t TV or reading. Don’t you? Also I have things that I have to do, like making and cleaning up after dinner. One night a week I go to choir practice. Sometimes I go to lectures. I watch a little TV, and read probably more than I should, since mostly I am not reading literature or spiritual books, but just mysteries. I do some cleaning. I pray and read the Bible (OK, that doesn’t take up a particularly large part of my evening). I post on this forum sometimes. Sometimes I play video games for a little while. I engage in a few crafts that I enjoy. I talk on the phone to friends. And anyway, by the time I am done working there is often not a huge amount of evening left. If limiting your time spent reading and watching TV leaves you with nothing to do but twiddle your thumbs, you need a hobby.

–Jen

 

[Shadark]

The fact that you don’t understand something does not make it nonexistent.

Thank you for highlighting that I’m ignorant for having an opposing opinion to yours. I however find it more imperative that the OP is assured of her enjoyment of the written word. A lot of what you are say comes across as fear mongering.

If you are never tempted to sin by reading a book, you are fortunate. But many people are influenced by the books they read. In the same way that I am moved in the direction of a rather grim and joyless usefulness by reading Jane Eyre, I can be moved to an atitude disposing me toward bad behavior (rather than just annoying behavior as above) by reading the wrong books. (Please don’t comment on whether Jane Eyre should make me tend toward behaving that way–in practice, I have found that it does, which is why I don’t read it very often.)

I’m not really certain what you’re going on about here. Jane Eyre?!? If anything it was rather positive, especially towards the end. Have you finished the novel? Jane overcomes her bleak past and lack of self confidence to win the heart of the dashing Mr Rochester. You sure you’re not thinking of Wuthering Heights?

The OP didn’t ask if there was anything wrong with reading a boring story. Who needs to ask advice about that? Anyway, a book that leads you to sin is much worse than something that just bores you.

You obviously need the advice. By your standards you must be reading the dictionary just to stay safe.

I’m afraid that that is not in accord with Catholic teaching, which is what the OP wanted to know about, or she wouldn’t have asked on a Catholic forum. I also say from personal experience that it is not in accord with reality, but then, Catholic teaching and reality do so often coincide.

I think you are misrepresenting the church if you are saying that reading books is a spiritual danger. There are spiritual dangers in everything we do, I would say the least of these is in reading books.

I have lots of interests that aren’t TV or reading. Don’t you? Also I have things that I have to do, like making and cleaning up after dinner. One night a week I go to choir practice. Sometimes I go to lectures. I watch a little TV, and read probably more than I should, since mostly I am not reading literature or spiritual books, but just mysteries. I do some cleaning. I pray and read the Bible (OK, that doesn’t take up a particularly large part of my evening). I post on this forum sometimes. Sometimes I play video games for a little while. I engage in a few crafts that I enjoy. I talk on the phone to friends. And anyway, by the time I am done working there is often not a huge amount of evening left. If limiting your time spent reading and watching TV leaves you with nothing to do but twiddle your thumbs, you need a hobby.

Good for you. But I wasn’t dissing on how you spend your free time. But your original posts and some of your above points don’t bring across how you are censoring the books you read. For movies and games it’s easy, they are given a rating according to their content. How can you quantify this with books? The only way you can find out it’s content is by reading it. Should we fear to read the unknown because it may possibly mention something that opposes our beliefs? Are we not mature enough to see the themes of sex, murder, etc as narrative tools; fact from fiction; right from wrong? What are you to do when reading fantasy, science fiction, or historical novels where Judeo-Christian ethic does not exist? In such cases you can’t hold the main characters up to our moral standards, because they have no idea about the Christian doctrine. It all needs to be within the context of the story, if it isn’t, the story won’t work. Shondrea puts it perfectly,

There is not sin in reading a book where the characters are, you know, HUMAN, and make human choices, make human stumbles and human sins.

I know Shondy goes on to say more about that it may lead you to sin. But if that’s going to happen, then you were looking for the excuse to do so and probably weren’t interested in what you were reading in the first place.

By the way I loved this one.

Sometimes I go to lectures.

You’re such a student.

 

[shondrea]

Shondy? Heh, I like that!

I think this question can also differ depending on how you view a book or program. Some people want high-flying adventure and thrill, others want a character study.

I know we’re talking about books, but let me give you the example of a tv show I like. I only get into ONE SHOW at a time. I’m currently very into a single anime series. 50 episodes long, I pop the DVD’s in when I’m drawing, or have a little extra time. I’ve seen the first season at least 5 times.

Now, why do I rewatch this show over and over? It’s about a corrupt, Darwinistic Empire taking over Japan (and most of the rest of the world) taking their rights, freedom, hope, and if they feel like it, their lives. They kill them at a whim, just because they can, until finally someone decides to stand up and form a rebellion, to fight for peace and their very lives.

It shows all sides of the conflict. Good people who do good things for a good end, Good people who choose bad means to an end, bad people who inadvertently do good…you get the picture.

I don’t watch the series over and over to see people get shot, stabbed, or killed. I don’t follow the main character to watch him be sneaky and manipulative, to watch him use his friends. No, I watch it for the characters. I watch it for the emotions, the struggles, the relationships. THAT’S what’s amazing about this show. Sure, the drama and giant fighting robots are awesome, but what moves me about this show is looking at, say, the Royal Family, wondering how it must feel for them to find out the man ragging a rebellion against them is their own little brother, long exiled. That the man they swore to conquer was once the boy they loved more than anything. Talk about emotional drama!

I don’t enjoy it for the sin, but the sinner. I LOVE characters, I love getting into characters heads, seeing what makes the tick. The protagonist here, he makes many, MANY choices I don’t agree with. He runs the whole gambit, from shining hero to near villain at times, and his choices run from saintly to near evil. But even when I think he was in the wrong, I can’t help but think, what made him do that? What compelled him so strongly to feel like he HAD to make that choice? Does he regret it? Does he feel that weight on his shoulders yet?

When it’s showing the POV of the empire, I wonder, what kind of enviornment did they grow up in, where racism is taught as nor only normal, but RIGHT? What goes through their heads? Did they ever stop as children to wonder, this doesn’t feel right? This is wrong?

Of course, that’s just my perspective on why watching characters act immoraly doesn’t bother me.