Continuity from Benedict to Francis

[AndyP2010]

Here is an article written by a young Jesuit reflecting on Francis’ “Evangelii Gaudium”. He points out that the real difference between the two popes is rhetoric and not theology.

Paying attention to the similarity between Francis and Benedict’s teaching, and the difference in their rhetorical styles, lets us stop falling back into our old, cardboard labels of “liberal” or “conservative”, “traditional” or “progressive.” It lets us pay attention to how Francis and Benedict are literally collaborating with one another to talk not just about the Church’s economic teaching, but about how the office of the papacy can reach different people with different rhetorical styles in order to help all of them trust the person who is actually doing the evangelizing: Jesus.

Read the whole thing.

 

[HelenRose]

I am reading “Evangelii Gaudium” and am finding it amazing.

The press is having a hay day of cherry picking what they want to hear and what they want to hate. (The press is at best stupid - or at worst vicious)

Yes, read the whole thing and we must say to ourselves, is he talking to me? Is this about “them” who need to change or is about my own attitudes?

I have read biographies about Pope John Paul II and love him dearly. But I have trouble reading his writings.

I am able to read Pope Benedict’s books and find them very interesting.

Pope Francis’ style is entirely different and very readable.

No doubt at all in my mind that the Holy Spirit knows what he is doing.

Yes. Yes. Read this yourself. Do not listen to the secular media.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I am reading “Evangelii Gaudium” and am finding it amazing.

Yes. Yes. Read this yourself. Do not listen to the secular media.

Yes, amazing. I am about half way through and want it to last forever.

 

[McCall1981]

I am reading “Evangelii Gaudium” and am finding it amazing.

**The press is having a hay day of cherry picking what they want to hear and what they want to hate. (The press is at best stupid - or at worst vicious) **
Yes, read the whole thing and we must say to ourselves, is he talking to me? Is this about “them” who need to change or is about my own attitudes?

I have read biographies about Pope John Paul II and love him dearly. But I have trouble reading his writings.

I am able to read Pope Benedict’s books and find them very interesting.

Pope Francis’ style is entirely different and very readable.

No doubt at all in my mind that the Holy Spirit knows what he is doing.

Yes. Yes. Read this yourself. Do not listen to the secular media.

Can’t really comment on “Evangelii Gaudium” or the Pope’s writings, but the bolded here is very true. The secular press has been all over the economic stuff, and has ignored the women’s ordination and abortion parts.

I think if Benedict had written the exact same thing, then the headlines would have been “Pope hates women” for what he said about women’s ordination and abortion, and no one would have cared about the economic parts at all.

 

[McCall1981]

I am reading “Evangelii Gaudium” and am finding it amazing.

**The press is having a hay day of cherry picking what they want to hear and what they want to hate. (The press is at best stupid - or at worst vicious) **
Yes, read the whole thing and we must say to ourselves, is he talking to me? Is this about “them” who need to change or is about my own attitudes?

I have read biographies about Pope John Paul II and love him dearly. But I have trouble reading his writings.

I am able to read Pope Benedict’s books and find them very interesting.

Pope Francis’ style is entirely different and very readable.

No doubt at all in my mind that the Holy Spirit knows what he is doing.

Yes. Yes. Read this yourself. Do not listen to the secular media.

Can’t really comment on “Evangelii Gaudium” or the Pope’s writings, but the bolded here is very true. The secular press has been all over the economic stuff, but I think if Benedict had written the exact same words, then the headlines would have been “Pope hates women” for what he said about women’s ordination and abortion.

 

[HelenRose]

Go to vatican.va/phome_en.htm

On the upper left hand side of the site you can download it or save it PDF.

Simple as that and you will have some wonderful reading ahead of you.

 

[una_fides]

No doubt at all in my mind that the Holy Spirit knows what he is doing.

Yes. Yes. Read this yourself. Do not listen to the secular media.

I agree, media is horrible. And while I like many things about our new HF, I do have one quibble with the idea that everything a pope does or says or that the election of the pope or whatever is somehow the direct work of the Holy Spirit. I’m not saying that exactly is being said here, but ultimately popes are human. There have been good ones and bad ones. Heretical popes who have hurt the church and great saints. In the end the gates of hell won’t prevail, but we can’t presume that because someone is elected pope, his every word and action is somehow being inspired by the Spirit, since if that were the case then the Holy Spirit would be the author of heresy and many other sins committed by popes in history. I realize I’m nit picking here, and perhaps this topic could be opened into a new thread, but just wanted to vent a little since I’ve heard a lot of that kind of saying going around lately. The pope is human, fallible (except when teaching ex cathedra), and is in need of our prayers more than anyone as the position carries with it a substantial responsibility.

 

[RedCaves]

I find it convenient that all of you say that the media is always wrong, that the media is controlled by a bunch of retards with axes to grind against the Faith, and that they can never be trusted.

Surely, if the media was right about one thing that the Current Pontiff said, it would undermine the indefectibility of the Church!

Sooooooo easy just to say “Media will misinterpret him”.

Have you seen the front cover of the Advocate magazine? It’s as if Francis is the first pope since forever to act… gasp like Jesus! (The Internet comments say that, too.)

Never mind previous pontiffs who argued for the welfare and dignity of the human person, like John Paul II and Benedict XVI.

Heck, Gregory XVI in the 19th Century argued against the slave trade!

But no, he belongs to that repressive, archaic, out-of-date, pre-Vatican II period of time. He doesn’t count!

Not even Pius XI and Pius XII secret war against the Nazis is enough to earn him praise among TIME and the Advocate.

It is very uncomfortable to realize that Francis makes Paul VI look like an Ultra-Conservative.

If you think I am wrong in my thinking, then, please, correct me or offer your thoughts on the whole situation.

 

[RedCaves]

I find it convenient that all of you say that the media is always wrong, that the media is controlled by a bunch of retards with axes to grind against the Faith, and that they can never be trusted.

Surely, if the media was right about one thing that the Current Pontiff said, it would undermine the indefectibility of the Church!

Sooooooo easy just to say “Media will misinterpret him”.

Have you seen the front cover of the Advocate magazine? It’s as if Francis is the first pope since forever to act… gasp like Jesus! (The Internet comments say that, too.)

Never mind previous pontiffs who argued for the welfare and dignity of the human person, like John Paul II and Benedict XVI.

Heck, Gregory XVI in the 19th Century argued against the slave trade!

But no, he belongs to that repressive, archaic, out-of-date, pre-Vatican II period of time. He doesn’t count!

Not even Pius XI and Pius XII secret war against the Nazis is enough to earn him praise among TIME and the Advocate.

It is very uncomfortable to realize that Francis makes Paul VI look like an Ultra-Conservative.

If you think I am wrong in my thinking, then, please, correct me or offer your thoughts on the whole situation.

 

[agnes_therese]

The press is having a hay day of cherry picking what they want to hear and what they want to hate. (The press is at best stupid - or at worst vicious)

It’s not just the press, unfortunately. You can see the same tendency among some “conservatives”/Traditionals." “Oh, no, he’s talking about economics! That means he’s abandoning the pro-lifers!” “Oh, no, he’s talking about a greater role for women, that means he’s going to ordain them!” Etc., etc.

It’s very easy to jump on something that stands out for you, and run with it before looking at the whole context.

(and please note I use quotes around “conservative” and “Traditional” because I feel labels are exceedingly inaccurate, and often inappropriate, not because I have anything against those who self-identify as such)

 

[YoungTradCath]

I find it convenient that all of you say that the media is always wrong, that the media is controlled by a bunch of retards with axes to grind against the Faith, and that they can never be trusted.

Surely, if the media was right about one thing that the Current Pontiff said, it would undermine the indefectibility of the Church!

Sooooooo easy just to say “Media will misinterpret him”.

Have you seen the front cover of the Advocate magazine? It’s as if Francis is the first pope since forever to act… gasp like Jesus! (The Internet comments say that, too.)

Never mind previous pontiffs who argued for the welfare and dignity of the human person, like John Paul II and Benedict XVI.

Heck, Gregory XVI in the 19th Century argued against the slave trade!

But no, he belongs to that repressive, archaic, out-of-date, pre-Vatican II period of time. He doesn’t count!

Not even Pius XI and Pius XII secret war against the Nazis is enough to earn him praise among TIME and the Advocate.

It is very uncomfortable to realize that Francis makes Paul VI look like an Ultra-Conservative.

If you think I am wrong in my thinking, then, please, correct me or offer your thoughts on the whole situation.

I believe that the media has a mix of ignorance and hatred of the faith in regard to Catholicism. I don’t want to take a stab at the proportions, but yeah, I think there’s a bit of both.

Anyway, I can’t really interpret where you’re coming from with your post.

 

[on_the_hill]

I find it convenient that all of you say that the media is always wrong, that the media is controlled by a bunch of retards with axes to grind against the Faith, and that they can never be trusted.

I can’t tell if you’re criticizing the media or forum members.

At any rate, I’d prefer if people didn’t use retards as a pejorative.

 

[RedCaves]

I can’t tell if you’re criticizing the media or forum members.

At any rate, I’d prefer if people didn’t use retards as a pejorative.

I was referring to those individuals who are in charge of reporting the news, which apparently, never tell the truth about Catholicism

 

[Genesis315]

I think many people also fail to realize that Evangelii Gaudium is a post-synodal exhortation–meaning it is based on the work of the last Synod of Bishops, which was presided over by Benedict XVI.

 

[Pilgrim1701]

Can’t really comment on “Evangelii Gaudium” or the Pope’s writings, but the bolded here is very true. The secular press has been all over the economic stuff, and has ignored the women’s ordination and abortion parts.

I think if Benedict had written the exact same thing, then the headlines would have been “Pope hates women” for what he said about women’s ordination and abortion, and no one would have cared about the economic parts at all.

I agree. It’s getting tedious now about how much of a new departure Francis is, how liberal, and how conservative Benedict was. I’m hearing it everywhere. I could nearly guarantee if you put down two documents, one from each pope, and didn’t tell them which was which, they wouldn’t be able to identify the author of each document. Benedict was not as conservative as portrayed, nor Francis as liberal as he is portrayed. Continuity shouldn’t be that surprising considering we have had two millennia of it

 

[AndyP2010]

I agree. It’s getting tedious now about how much of a new departure Francis is, how liberal, and how conservative Benedict was. I’m hearing it everywhere. I could nearly guarantee if you put down two documents, one from each pope, and didn’t tell them which was which, they wouldn’t be able to identify the author of each document. Benedict was not as conservative as portrayed, nor Francis as liberal as he is portrayed. Continuity shouldn’t be that surprising considering we have had two millennia of it

In content I would agree you couldn’t tell the difference of course BXVI would never have used a term like “sourpuss”.

 

[kozlosap]

In content I would agree you couldn’t tell the difference of course BXVI would never have used a term like “sourpuss”.

My love and admiration for Papa Francis increased immediately upon reading about his use of the adjective “sourpuss”!

 

[TimothyH]

My love and admiration for Papa Francis increased immediately upon reading about his use of the adjective “sourpuss”!

The entire passage is sublime.

---

1. One of the more serious temptations which stifles boldness and zeal is a defeatism which turns us into querulous and disillusioned pessimists, “sourpusses”. Nobody can go off to battle unless he is fully convinced of victory beforehand. If we start without confidence, we have already lost half the battle and we bury our talents. While painfully aware of our own frailties, we have to march on without giving in, keeping in mind what the Lord said to Saint Paul: “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness” (2 Cor 12:9). Christian triumph is always a cross, yet a cross which is at the same time a victorious banner borne with aggressive tenderness against the assaults of evil. The evil spirit of defeatism is brother to the temptation to separate, before its time, the wheat from the weeds; it is the fruit of an anxious and self-centred lack of trust.***

-Tim-

 

[AndyP2010]

More

Manfred Lütz, who has known Ratzinger for over 30 years and paid a visit to him in recent days, revealed that the Pope Emeritus believes he and his successor are on the same wavelength when it comes to theological thought

I think that because of his reputation, Benedict XVI was often misunderstood by traditionalist and progressives alike. I think that Pope Francis is teaching many of the same things as Benedict XVI and if this confuses us. It is because we didn’t understand Benedict XVI that well.