Contracepion and reproductive rights

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servant1989

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I have an aunt who works as a nurse and who was Catholic. Anyway, I have heard her talk about how she thinks the church is wrong about abortion and contraception, and her basis for that claim is that women have reproductive rights. From what I understand that means they have the right to pick how many and when to have children. She seems to like to bash on the church and I was just wondering how I might respond to her claim of reproductive rights the next time she starts using that argument.
 
You say she was Catholic, i.e., not Catholic anymore, right? The abortion argument is an easy one for me to address secularly. The contraception argument is a little harder for me, so I’ll let someone else tackle that.

The foundational question about abortion is, “What is the unborn?” So when it comes to that discussion, you need to break down the barriers that artificially distinguish “born” and “not born.” There is no legitimate, non-arbitrary difference imparted to a human being during birth.

See this, too:

str.org/site/DocServer/One-Minute_Pro-Life_Apologist.pdf?docID=661
 
Humanity does not obtain our “rights” from our judges or courts. The supreme court of the US, did not “give us” our rights. Our constitution did not “give us” our rights. The rights of all humanity are from GOD and GOD alone. The constitution of the US just affirms that those rights are from GOD and inalienable -

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in·al·ien·a·ble   /ɪnˈeɪlyənəbəl, -ˈeɪliə-/ Show Spelled
[in-eyl-yuh-nuh-buhl, -ey-lee-uh-] Show IPA

–adjective
not alienable; not transferable to another or capable of being repudiated: inalienable rights.
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Origin:
1635–45; in-3 + alienable

—Related forms
in·al·ien·a·bil·i·ty, in·al·ien·a·ble·ness, noun
in·al·ien·a·bly, adverb

—Synonyms
inviolable, absolute, unassailable, inherent.

Your aunt has accepted the lie that the courts can grant rights, but they can only affirm or through the police powers of the state “remove” rights.

The fact that our forefathers used the word “inalienable” proved they get it. Our rights are not from our courts, they are from our GOD.
 
First, the Constitution doesn’t talk about inalienable (or unalienable) rights. That’s from the Declaration of Independence, which is not a document of law.

Second, talk of God falls on deaf ears when your audience doesn’t believe in God.
 
servant1989 said:
I have an aunt who works as a nurse and who was Catholic. Anyway, I have heard her talk about how she thinks the church is wrong about abortion and contraception, and her basis for that claim is that women have reproductive rights. From what I understand that means they have the right to pick how many and when to have children. She seems to like to bash on the church and I was just wondering how I might respond to her claim of reproductive rights the next time she starts using that argument.
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Get some literature from www.omsoul.com and educate yourself on these issues, then engage your aunt.
 
broconsul said:
First, the Constitution doesn’t talk about inalienable (or unalienable) rights. That’s from the Declaration of Independence,
Thank you for correcting me.

which is not a document of law.

Second, talk of God falls on deaf ears when your audience doesn’t believe in God.
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Yes, she no longer considers herself a Catholic because of various reasons. She thinks thinksthe entire priestly structure is corrupt, trying to guilt people into political choices, and manipulative among other things. She doesn’t believe the church has an authority and she seems to hold her idea of reproductive rights above just about anything. It starts there and turns into general bashing of the church, so I figure if I can address her argument at that point and provide a counter to it, then it will make it much harder for her to move onto bashing the rest of the church.
 
Not too many priests are living lavish lives for how much power they supposedly wield.🤷
 
servant1989 said:
I have an aunt who works as a nurse and who was Catholic. Anyway, I have heard her talk about how she thinks the church is wrong about abortion and contraception, and her basis for that claim is that women have reproductive rights. From what I understand that means they have the right to pick how many and when to have children. She seems to like to bash on the church and I was just wondering how I might respond to her claim of reproductive rights the next time she starts using that argument.
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I would say women have reproductive rights in that it would be unjust to force a woman to have an abortion or to sterilize women we didn’t feel were suitable enough to reproduce. Reproductive rights are the right to reproduce. Unforunately people don’t seem to understand that rights are based on natural rights and that you can’t call something a right when you have to go outside of nature to get what you want. Its like saying people have video game rights, or the right to get breast implants. Its silly and not an argument at all.
 
twoangels said:
I would say women have reproductive rights in that it would be unjust to force a woman to have an abortion or to sterilize women we didn’t feel were suitable enough to reproduce. Reproductive rights are the right to reproduce. Unforunately people don’t seem to understand that rights are based on natural rights and that you can’t call something a right when you have to go outside of nature to get what you want. Its like saying people have video game rights, or the right to get breast implants. Its silly and not an argument at all.
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I agree with you completely there, but she thinks it also means women have the right to have an abortion or use contraceptives. and as she put it a bunch of lonely old men shouldn’t tell woman what to do in the bedroom, since they don’t understand those things.
 
The words “reproductive rights” have been used as code words for the right to unlimited abortion. Ironic, isn’t it? There would be no reproduction taking place if the woman “chooses” abortion, yet the militant femi-nazis have slipped this code phrase into the common rhetoric. It’s there in the Democrat party platform, and stands for abortion, because contraception is really taken for granted as being just what women and men do.

Your aunt isn’t going to change her stance because you argue with her. She’s against everything the Church stands for and from my experience, no matter what you say, she will refuse to listen. And if you persist, she will eventually get angry and call you names or get over-emotional, and say you are harassing her.

You know what they say about not wrestling with a pig, right? It just gets you muddy, and he likes it.
 
servant1989 said:
I agree with you completely there, but she thinks it also means women have the right to have an abortion or use contraceptives. and as she put it a bunch of lonely old men shouldn’t tell woman what to do in the bedroom, since they don’t understand those things.
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Well like I said, she’s not making an argument. There’s no logical argument being made to refute. I suppose you could take the Socratic way and begin by asking her to define her terms. “What do we mean by the term right?” and then asking her a series of questions to make her realize that by her own definition using contraceptives and abortion doesn’t fit under the definition of a right. However, most people don’t think very deeply to define their terms. A lot of times in such debates, people just start pulling out the dictionary rather than getting into a philosophical argument. They may just start insisting “Well we all know what rights are. It would be wrong to not do this” and then they’ll go on giving a bunch of rhetorical fallasies not realizing how illogical and unthinking they are being.

I overall would pray for her more than try to argue with her. She doesn’t sound like she’s open to having a dialogue.
 
servant1989 said:
I have an aunt who works as a nurse and who was Catholic. Anyway, I have heard her talk about how she thinks the church is wrong about abortion and contraception, and her basis for that claim is that women have reproductive rights. From what I understand that means they have the right to pick how many and when to have children. She seems to like to bash on the church and I was just wondering how I might respond to her claim of reproductive rights the next time she starts using that argument.
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What if the woman wanted to abort a female baby? Shouldn’t then the baby girl have a right to someday HAVE the right to have children of her own? Shouldn’t she, as a women, have “reproductive rights” of her own? Shouldn’t she even at least have a right to live??

Lol, you could definitely stump her with that. Pro abortion views are amongst the most ridiculous I have ever seen. It’s not hard to argue against them, considering you are arguing against murder.
 
servant1989 said:
I have an aunt who works as a nurse and who was Catholic. Anyway, I have heard her talk about how she thinks the church is wrong about abortion and contraception, and her basis for that claim is that women have reproductive rights. From what I understand that means they have **the right to pick how many and when to have children. ** She seems to like to bash on the church and I was just wondering how I might respond to her claim of reproductive rights the next time she starts using that argument.
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This can done through NFP and a woman planning how many children she has and when is totally irrelevant with regard to abortion which is the murder of an innocent life.
 
Defining terms, as others have said, is a good way to start, if she will play that game.

If she’s a nurse, then she shoudl know that human life begins at conception. Ask her at what point in the development of teh human being that “rights” should begin. ie. reproductive rights, which is a stupid term, as when people speak of “reproductive rights” they’re talking about right to an abortion, but that’s killing a human being, once pregnant, reproduction has already taken place, thus the right to reproduce has been completed.

Teh other point is what right, if any, is superior. You can’t have the right to privacy if you’re dead, you can’t have “reproductive rights” if you’re a rock. You have to be alive first, so the “right to life” is paramount, the primary right which all others are derived. The z/e/f is alive, therefore, the question you have to ask her, is when rights begin, as I mention, and why, if not at conception which is when life starts, is she allocating some other random point to bestow rights? Should a ten year old without a menses have the right to reproduce? Shoudl IVF be given to an 80 year old, if '“reproductive rigths” are so important?

Anyho, she may something assassinine like human rights begin at birth, then ask her why? A lot of the reasons for abortion can easily be applied to the new born, ie. lack of sentience, thought, dependence.

If she’s a “pro-abortion till birth” ask her about viability, ask her why she thinks its okay for a woman to kill a full term foetus. If she’s one of these inconstient pro-aborts who just picks an abitary point in pregnancy to allot rights, or viability, as her what makes that point so special?

The thing is, you need to do a bit of reading into this yourself, honestly, pro-abortion arguments are such a load of cow poopies that anyone with half a brain and a stick up his nose could refute them.
 
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