Contracepting spouse and pastoral conflict

[SWolf]

You are totally off-base here and this thread should end right now because of the great harm advice like you have given can cause.

The OP is an adult. I’m sure he can discern good advice from bad.

The Church has made it clear that people are not to be forced or coerced to act against their will or conscience.

She’s not being forced to act against her will.

What you are proposing is disrespectful of the wife, and a misunderstanding of the role of a spouse in marriage. She is not a child, she does not belong to her husband, she has her own soul, he is not the guardian of it, he is not the controller of her life.

No, she is blatantly disrespectful of her husband, and the Marriage. Expecting a devout Catholic husband to have marital relations with you while contracepting is appalling. Look how devastated the OP is by her choice.

I will tell you something–I tried a similar thing with a alcoholic husband by pitching his booze, and it was a total disaster, he did not seek treatment, it made the marriage worse and almost ended in a divorce. I was assuming a role I had no business assuming, and it probably prolonged the drinking by years because I was not respecting him as a person with a God-given right to make his own mistakes and choices. The choices might be wrong, but it was not my responsibility to control him.

There was an alcoholic in my family and was untreated, as “that is the way he is”. He ended up hurting one of his kids.

The OP needs to speak to his priest

and follow Church teaching on the matter, period. Bringing a problem like this to a forum is not good, as no one here knows the people involved, and have no right to give direction in the matter.

And yet this, in itself, is advice.

 

[Tigre]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I am acutely aware that “one gets what one pays for” when asking for advice on an Internet forum. That being the case, I only sought advice on whether to take the issue to our priest or one who does not minister to both of us. Not what to actually do about the situation. That is between me and God working through his priest in offering what I trust will be sound Catholic direction.

I love my wife. We have a sacramental bond. But she is a person who has free will and the choice to sin. Just like me. She needs to work out her salvation with fear and trembling. Just like me. She knows what the Church says. She knows I cannot condone her actions. I trust and pray that God will remove the scales from her eyes. As for me, I want to live upright, including both following Church teaching with respect to contraception and fulfilling my role as a husband in a sacramental marriage. Holy Mary, Blessed St. Joseph her spouse, pray for my wife and for us, that she may respect her dignity as a woman in all of its fullness, and that our union be strengthened through resolution of this dilemma. Amen!

 

[cjforJesus]

I’m in a pickle, so I’m soliciting the forum for advice. I think this is the right place for this topic. Here goes:

My wife and I just had our first child. She has decided to contracept going forward in part because of irregular cycles but also to space out the birth of our next child. She knows the Church’s position on contraception, but she has rationalized herself out of her use falling into the mortal sin category. She knows I am with the Church on the issue and that I would rather us practice NFP. My heart breaks for her, and I am praying for her conversion on the issue.

I understand the conditions under which the Vademecum for confessors allows for marital activity in such situations. I obviously need to seek pastoral guidance regarding this. My problem is, to whom should I go?

Our parish priest is also my spiritual director. I feel conflicted in raising this issue with him because it involves my wife’s sins and she may or may not want him to know or want to confess this (yet, hopefully). I am trusting Jesus to work in her, and it seems like airing her laundry, so to speak, to our common priest might not be prudent right now.

I also don’t have a regular confessor, although I participate in reconciliation every two weeks or so.

So, what say you? Should I bring this to: (a) our parish priest and my SD, after telling her I plan to do so; (b) our parish priest and my SD without telling her; (c) make an appointment with some other priest for pastoral guidance (perhaps one recommended by my SD?) or (d) spring it on a random priest in the confessional?

It sounds like your marriage is already in deep trouble. You not only need spiritual advice but probably counseling.

 

[Tigre]

It sounds like your marriage is already in deep trouble.

Yikes. Hopefully not.

 

[Tigre]

I have decided to take it to our priest and my SD and to tell my wife that I am doing so. Perhaps that will jump start her thinking on the issue when she sees him on Sundays. Thanks again all.

 

[Colorad007]

You should talk to your spiritual director. Be completely honest with him and don’t worry about your wife’s embarrassment.

 

[Jeffgo]

What makes all of this especially hard is the fact that all hormonal contraceptives can potentially act as abortifacients. An individual could not invoke any pastoral exceptions when intercourse would potentially lead to chemical abortion. I will pray for you and your wife. Thank you for your courageous devotion to the teachings of Holy Mother Church.

 

[Kelfa28]

I would take it to the parish Priest and/or your SD and I would tell her.

You’ve got to make it clear to her that while you can’t control her…you can’t accept this either and you need guidance on what to do.

Believe me…I know what your wife is going through.

It’s really tough when you’re PP and feel hopeless sometimes.

Right now, I don’t trust NFP either.
It failed us once and I don’t want to take that risk again.

The difference is…we’re abstaining. I don’t trust anything except abstinence.

Sometimes I want to jump ship too and get an IUD or something…but I don’t because I know it’s wrong and sinful…and also, because I’m really serious about not getting pregnant again anytime soon.

The best thing you can do for your wife is to pray for her, help her and support her in the most loving way you can.

You won’t change her heart or her mind by treating her like a child. Throwing pills or condoms away is childish.

Not to mention…

SWolf? How would you respond to an IUD implant?

Honestly, if my husband was being that childish about contraception…I’d probably get an IUD to be spiteful.

Also, Tigre…I don’t necessarily think your marriage is in trouble.
I think your wife is overwhelmed and scared.

 

[Tigre]

I think your wife is overwhelmed and scared.

This is the heart of the matter. God give her the graces of fortitude and trust in You.

 

[Kelfa28]

This is the heart of the matter. God give her the graces of fortitude and trust in You.

Then I can totally understand and relate to her situation.

I seriously doubt your marriage is in trouble.

It’s really hard being PP and trusting yourself and trusting God.

Love her, pray for her and don’t push her. You’ll just make it worse if you do.

How far out is she from having your baby?

If she is nursing it could take a while for everything to even out.

 

[Kelfa28]

Tell her you’re going to see your Priest.

If she asks why…tell her the truth. She knows what’s going on and that this is wrong. She might still be questioning it.

Extend the invite and leave it open-ended. If she goes…awesome. If not…that’s okay too.

Maybe make a regular appointment…especially for confession. This might be a good time to find a regular confessor.

Let her know you’re going to confession too. Extend the invite.

Hubby and I always do this with each other. “Hey, let’s load up the kids in the car for a ride tonight and we can swing by St. Anthony’s for confession. At least, I need to go!”

It usually gets us both into confession on a bi-weekly basis.

 

[Tigre]

How far out is she from having your baby?

Baby is 6 weeks old today. She hasn’t been an easy infant. I don’t see true PPD, but there have been lots of tears from mom and baby. It is the hardest thing either of us have ever done.

We have been abstinent since she was born and are still abstaining. She got her prescription today. We have been discussing that decision over the past several weeks. I tell her I love her but I will not use contraception and I love her too much to approve of her risking mortal sin by taking the pill. I have also offered to go to any length necessary to ensure our next child isn’t any time soon without resorting to the pill, including abstinence. Lord have mercy on her.

She justified the use in her mind by equivocating the intent of NFP with the pill, but I think In her heart she knows it is not permissible and she knows she doesn’t have a solid double-effect reason to use them. All I can do is remind her how much I love her and try to be as helpful as possible with chores, etc.

 

[pensmama87]

Ooooo, yes, only six weeks out, especially as a first-time mom, is a really crazy time. If baby is colicky or just exceptionally high need, I could easily see your wife feeling as she does.

Keep an eye out for PPD regardless because it can come up later…I was diagnosed after my oldest was a year old. It probably came in full around the 2-3 month mark, but both DH and I explained the symptoms away for a long time.

Also continue to be as supportive as you can in other ways with baby care, offering your wife breaks so she can shower (what a difference that can make!!) It will be easier for her to trust in God if she really knows the two of you are in this together.

 

[white_sheep]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I am acutely aware that “one gets what one pays for” when asking for advice on an Internet forum. That being the case, I only sought advice on whether to take the issue to our priest or one who does not minister to both of us. Not what to actually do about the situation. That is between me and God working through his priest in offering what I trust will be sound Catholic direction.

I love my wife. We have a sacramental bond. But she is a person who has free will and the choice to sin. Just like me. She needs to work out her salvation with fear and trembling. Just like me. She knows what the Church says. She knows I cannot condone her actions. I trust and pray that God will remove the scales from her eyes. As for me, I want to live upright, including both following Church teaching with respect to contraception and fulfilling my role as a husband in a sacramental marriage. Holy Mary, Blessed St. Joseph her spouse, pray for my wife and for us, that she may respect her dignity as a woman in all of its fullness, and that our union be strengthened through resolution of this dilemma. Amen!

That’s fine as I don’t really know what to tell you to do anyhow. Except for the basics. Communication. Talk about it. And no matter what do not get upset or raise your voice, if you find yourself getting angry, stop the conversation and say you need to think about it some more and will talk about it again later. The best way to completely shut her out is to raise your voice or sound upset at all. It’s a communication killer. I’ve always had problems talking to my wife and I find the above to be essential.

This thread has been a little short on facts, and I don’t know how much you know about this, so I thought I would try to add a little.

The idea that her periods are irregular and she needs to regulate her cycles are complete hogwash. She has no cycles. That’s part of pregnancy. Until her cycles resume and you have 6 of them to go by you have no idea whether they are regular or irregular. There is simply no factual basis at all to go by here. That they may have been irregular prior to pregnancy is irrelevant. They can and do change after childbirth. My wife was fairly irregular prior to childbirth and has since been more or less “regular”, whatever that means. There also has to be a standard here. If one month is 28 days and the next is 32, is that irregular? I don’t think so. The first few cycles after childbirth will be irregular, that’s how it is. Anyway, I just thought that was something to mention.

As far as NFP goes, one thing that is important is whether she will be going back to work. As long as she is exclusively breastfeeding, she is suppressing return to fertility. Out to 6 months it is very effective. At least as effective as birth control pills, if not more. Note that by “exclusively breastfeeding” is meant a particular thing, namely that the baby nurses only and no bottles are given. Some people take that up a notch to what is called ecological breastfeeding where no pacifiers are given and the breast is used to soothe a fussy baby. Basically it means nursing even more. This results in perhaps a longer period of natural infertility. If you want I or someone could find you an article about this. I think it is ccli who has some good info on this. That is couple to couple league international, I think.

In my experience the real abstinence to avoid pregnancy after childbirth using NFP doesn’t begin until she goes back to work.

Here’s our story, every woman is different. My wife is gone more than 13 hours at a time when she goes back to work, 3 days a week. Typically she would nurse the baby in the morning, pump at work, and nurse a while after getting home. Then round the clock I suppose when she is off. Even with that schedule and being off the “rules” of exclusive breastfeeding, her first cycle has been at 10 months or so all 3 times. My intention is that after the next baby we aren’t going to start all this nfp abstinence until at least 7 or 8 months post partum. There simply isn’t a need. If your wife is on pills then you will never find this out. She may be one whose fertility is quite easily suppressed by nursing like some women are who can only nurse once a day and not have a cycle for well over a year. It happens. Note that I am not trying to be specific in nursing frequency there or time periods, but just a general idea that many women nurse much less than every 3 hours and have no return to fertility for a long time.

 

[Kelfa28]

As far as NFP goes, one thing that is important is whether she will be going back to work. As long as she is exclusively breastfeeding, she is suppressing return to fertility. Out to 6 months it is very effective. At least as effective as birth control pills, if not more. Note that by “exclusively breastfeeding” is meant a particular thing, namely that the baby nurses only and no bottles are given. Some people take that up a notch to what is called ecological breastfeeding where no pacifiers are given and the breast is used to soothe a fussy baby. Basically it means nursing even more. This results in perhaps a longer period of natural infertility. If you want I or someone could find you an article about this. I think it is ccli who has some good info on this. That is couple to couple league international, I think.
begin until she goes back to work.

It’s completely irresponsible to suggest to anyone they can rely on breast feeding to suppress their cycles…especially to someone who doesn’t trust NFP right now.

And especially you as her husband to suggest this.

Her doctor would tell her she is out of her mind to use this as a way to space children. Especially if she is so serious about not getting pregnant.

OP…please, please do not take this advice unless your wife knows what she is doing and what to look for.

From personal experience…this absolutely does not work for everyone and it should not be relied upon as a form of birth control.

I’m living proof of this.

I’ve nursed all of my babies. The last two have been exclusively breast fed with no other implementations (no bottles, pacifiers, co-sleeping the whole nine yards).

I become fertile and start ovulating again before I’m cleared by the doctor to resume sexual relations with my husband.

Let me repeat that…I become fertile and start to ovulate at 3-4 weeks PP.

I get my period back at 5-6 weeks PP.

If your wife is serious about not having another child…DO NOT follow this advice…unless you want to talk her into intimacy and risk her getting pregnant again at 2-3 months PP.

This advice would be catastrophic if it doesn’t work.

There is a reason why doctors do not recommend it as a form of spacing children.

It DOES NOT WORK FOR EVERYONE.

And you don’t want to find out if you’re wife is one of those people.

This advice needs to stop being recommended by anyone on this site.

I can promise you I’d probably be pregnant right now…2 months PP after my third child…already so close together in age with her sisters if I was following this advice.

I can also promise you that if I did listen to this advice…and it has been recommended to me by people on this site and by NFP groups I used to follow…and I got pregnant, as I very well could have…I would definitely not be a Practicing Catholic anymore.

My tubes would be tied and I’d have felt betrayed and heartbroken that I stupidly followed advice against my doctor and because my husband was insisting we restart relations.
Which he was doing at the time.

It is NOT EFFECTIVE. Don’t listen to it.

 

[kptrs]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I am acutely aware that “one gets what one pays for” when asking for advice on an Internet forum. That being the case, I only sought advice on whether to take the issue to our priest or one who does not minister to both of us. Not what to actually do about the situation. That is between me and God working through his priest in offering what I trust will be sound Catholic direction.

I love my wife. We have a sacramental bond. But she is a person who has free will and the choice to sin. Just like me. She needs to work out her salvation with fear and trembling. Just like me. She knows what the Church says. She knows I cannot condone her actions. I trust and pray that God will remove the scales from her eyes. As for me, I want to live upright, including both following Church teaching with respect to contraception and fulfilling my role as a husband in a sacramental marriage. Holy Mary, Blessed St. Joseph her spouse, pray for my wife and for us, that she may respect her dignity as a woman in all of its fullness, and that our union be strengthened through resolution of this dilemma. Amen!

You are very wise and level-headed and a good Catholic husband. God bless.

 

[Kelfa28]

I, personally stay away from couple-to-couple league.

They actually argue that exclusive breast feeding is nearly 100% effective and more effective then the pill.

I’m an experienced nurser…three kids all nursed…two exclusive. I got my cycles back immediately…like I had given them formula…with all three of them.

Want to know what CCLs explanation for this is?

I did something wrong.

That’s it. No, oh well…it might not work for you very well.

I nearly killed myself trying to follow all of the rules for EBFing. I had a baby attached to me literally 24/7.
Hubby couldn’t help at all because I was determined for it to work after it failed with my first.

When I started getting signs saying I was clearly fertile again…I started reaching out for help.

I was told “you’re nursing wrong.”

Yeah…okay. My pediatrician disagrees and so do all of the lactation consultants.

Imagine if I had gotten pregnant?
That is one of the only ways to know you’ve done it wrong.

 

[kptrs]

I have decided to take it to our priest and my SD and to tell my wife that I am doing so. Perhaps that will jump start her thinking on the issue when she sees him on Sundays. Thanks again all.

I think that’s the best decision. You are doing the right thing by making it clear that you do not condone her actions and praying for her. Best wishes!

 

[white_sheep]

It’s completely irresponsible to suggest to anyone they can rely on breast feeding to suppress their cycles…especially to someone who doesn’t trust NFP right now.

And especially you as her husband to suggest this.

Her doctor would tell her she is out of her mind to use this as a way to space children. Especially if she is so serious about not getting pregnant.

OP…please, please do not take this advice unless your wife knows what she is doing and what to look for.

From personal experience…this absolutely does not work for everyone and it should not be relied upon as a form of birth control.

I’m living proof of this.

I’ve nursed all of my babies. The last two have been exclusively breast fed with no other implementations (no bottles, pacifiers, co-sleeping the whole nine yards).

I become fertile and start ovulating again before I’m cleared by the doctor to resume sexual relations with my husband.

Let me repeat that…I become fertile and start to ovulate at 3-4 weeks PP.

I get my period back at 5-6 weeks PP.

If your wife is serious about not having another child…DO NOT follow this advice…unless you want to talk her into intimacy and risk her getting pregnant again at 2-3 months PP.

This advice would be catastrophic if it doesn’t work.

There is a reason why doctors do not recommend it as a form of spacing children.

It DOES NOT WORK FOR EVERYONE.

And you don’t want to find out if you’re wife is one of those people.

This advice needs to stop being recommended by anyone on this site.

I can promise you I’d probably be pregnant right now…2 months PP after my third child…already so close together in age with her sisters if I was following this advice.

I can also promise you that if I did listen to this advice…and it has been recommended to me by people on this site and by NFP groups I used to follow…and I got pregnant, as I very well could have…I would definitely not be a Practicing Catholic anymore.

My tubes would be tied and I’d have felt betrayed and heartbroken that I stupidly followed advice against my doctor and because my husband was insisting we restart relations.
Which he was doing at the time.

It is NOT EFFECTIVE. Don’t listen to it.

You’re right about it not working for everyone, neither do birth control pills. There’s no 100% anything in life.

If she is taking pills, she will never find out.

Breastfeeding does stop fertility for most women, so you can’t say it is ineffective, because it is effective. There are some women for whom it is not. I never intended to imply it was always and everywhere effective for all women in all circumstances, it’s something for them to look at and think about. I am not trying to make any decisions for them, neither should you.

 

[Kelfa28]

You’re right about it not working for everyone, neither do birth control pills. There’s no 100% anything in life.

If she is taking pills, she will never find out.

Breastfeeding does stop fertility for most women, so you can’t say it is ineffective, because it is effective. There are some women for whom it is not. I never intended to imply it was always and everywhere effective for all women in all circumstances, it’s something for them to look at and think about. I am not trying to make any decisions for them, neither should you.

She’s already going for the pill.

That means she doesn’t trust NFP and would certainly not trust nursing to do the job either.

Which is why I’m saying that suggesting nursing is totally irresponsible and won’t solve anything here.

The biggest problem with nursing is you could work yourself to death trying to follow all the rules of EBFing and it still might not work.

I know I did and nothing happened. I got my cycles back…despite following the directions.

At least with the pill if you follow the directions…you’ll achieve that desired percentage of avoiding pregnancy.

I never said using the pill was a good choice either. It’s immoral and we all know that.

Nursing to stop fertility when someone isn’t looking to try it is the equivalent to working a really hard, labor job with the knowledge that it may or may not work.

Let’s pile on all of this extra work…at the suggestion of her husband…so he can restart marital intimacy.
He can’t help feed the baby or comfort the baby.
Mom can’t go out without the baby, she can’t sleep by herself ever, she probably shouldn’t ever put the baby down because her fertility just might return.

All because her husband suggested this as a way to restart marital relations. But, hey…just like all forms of spacing children…this might not work either.

Because that makes sense…