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Scottgun
Guest
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debraran
Guest
One thing that upsets me is when common sense goes out the window with contracepting. If I had children, whether 2 or 4 or 6, and the doctor said, (and it was true) if you get pregnant again, you will die, bleed to death, whatever, I would stop having sex.
When I hear priests say to talk to your NFP instructor, I wonder if they think God truely wants those children to be motherless? If she got pregnant, they wouldn’t want it to end, so why set it up to happen? Her obligation is to bring up her children, not play russian roultette.
Like the story of the guy on the roof during the flood who wouldn’t take help from the boat, the helicopter, etc. because “God would save him, he was praying”, sometimes you don’t see something right in front of you. I think to pray that God doesn’t make you pregnant or to say, it was “his will” when you decided to have sex on a certain day, is leaving too much to him and not to common sense. Sometimes you have to obstain from things for the greater good.
When I hear priests say to talk to your NFP instructor, I wonder if they think God truely wants those children to be motherless? If she got pregnant, they wouldn’t want it to end, so why set it up to happen? Her obligation is to bring up her children, not play russian roultette.
Like the story of the guy on the roof during the flood who wouldn’t take help from the boat, the helicopter, etc. because “God would save him, he was praying”, sometimes you don’t see something right in front of you. I think to pray that God doesn’t make you pregnant or to say, it was “his will” when you decided to have sex on a certain day, is leaving too much to him and not to common sense. Sometimes you have to obstain from things for the greater good.
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Altesse
Guest
I grew up Lutheran, they don’t have a problem with contraception.
Are liberal on abortion too.
Many pentacostal denominations only allow barrier methods of birth control because pills don’t always prevent fertilization, just implantation; therefore causing an abortion. Lots of them use NFP too.
Some believe that you should have lots of children, one family had 15
. No multiples, no adopted.
Many of the women don’t use any contraceptives. They rely on prayer alone. They will ask the Lord if He will not send a child at that time. For most of them that works just fine.
When they are ready they ask the Lord to give them a child, and they get one. The children are spaced further than nursing (natural ovulation suppressor) would make them. 3-4 years instead of 1-2. .
They are not abstaining (this info. from one who used this method), and they are having the “authorized Catholic-type” of relations if you get my meaning
.
On the other hand, one woman I knew got pregnant while using 3 different types of birth control, (barrier and spermcide). She said she couldn’t figure out how it happened. She said God must have wanted that baby to be born at that time.
I kind of have a problem with the Catholic Church’s stance on this issue, especially the restrictions on what you can and can’t do in bed with your spouse .
Seems to me that alternate forms of relations along with NFP ovulation tracking would provide a more reliable method of family planning :twocents.
NFP seems to cause a great strain on marriages, due to long periods of abstinence. If either spouse is at all selfish or immature, it could cause irrevocable damage to the marriage.
Are liberal on abortion too.
Many pentacostal denominations only allow barrier methods of birth control because pills don’t always prevent fertilization, just implantation; therefore causing an abortion. Lots of them use NFP too.
Some believe that you should have lots of children, one family had 15
. No multiples, no adopted.Many of the women don’t use any contraceptives. They rely on prayer alone. They will ask the Lord if He will not send a child at that time. For most of them that works just fine.
When they are ready they ask the Lord to give them a child, and they get one. The children are spaced further than nursing (natural ovulation suppressor) would make them. 3-4 years instead of 1-2. .
They are not abstaining (this info. from one who used this method), and they are having the “authorized Catholic-type” of relations if you get my meaning
.On the other hand, one woman I knew got pregnant while using 3 different types of birth control, (barrier and spermcide). She said she couldn’t figure out how it happened. She said God must have wanted that baby to be born at that time.
I kind of have a problem with the Catholic Church’s stance on this issue, especially the restrictions on what you can and can’t do in bed with your spouse .
Seems to me that alternate forms of relations along with NFP ovulation tracking would provide a more reliable method of family planning :twocents.
NFP seems to cause a great strain on marriages, due to long periods of abstinence. If either spouse is at all selfish or immature, it could cause irrevocable damage to the marriage.
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brianwalden
Guest
Long periods of abstinence? It’s what, at most about two weeks. If you burn with so much desire for your spouse maybe God is calling you to have a baby.
How is this particular to NFP? Marriage requires selflessness in all aspects. If one of the spouses is selfish or immature about any part of the marriage it can cause damage… but nothing is irrevocable if both the spouses change their ways and go back to selflessly giving themselves to each other.
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KarenNC
Guest
Sorry, this is not supported by the numbers. No (and I mean no) method is absolutely foolproof, not even when used perfectly. Even a vasectomy can fail if the man does not either abstain or use other methods immediately post-surgery and go back for his post surgical check to be sure that no sperm are getting through.
As to whether it is more effective than the pill or condom:
healthcenter.ucdavis.edu/topics/contraception/efficacy.html
cdc.gov/nchs/data/icd9/att4_NFP_mar06.pdf (page 9 shows efficacy chart for various methods)
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otjm
Guest
NFP would not be the cause of irrevocable damage to the relationship.
Selfishness or immaturity would be the cause. And if either selfishness or immaturity are going to be the cause of irrevocable damage, that is going to occur with or without the use of NFP; in fact, I would submit that it is more likely to cause the irrevocable damage if NFP is not used, as other methods play directly into both selfishness and immaturity, and are way more likely to enhance, exacerbate and otherwise encourage further selfishness and immaturity.
Think about it for a minute: if a spouse does something that calls the other spouse to greater maturity and greater selflessness, is that more or less likely than if that spouse continues in a pattern that plays directly to selfishness and immaturity?
Which pattern is going to induce someone to grow up, or to become generous: one that encourages such growth and behavior, or one that doesn’t?
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
One wife can’t satisfy a man; And neither will hundreds of wives, as King Solomon found out (1 K 11:3).
The problem is not NFP; The problem is the selfish husband (or wife).
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Gardening_Mommy
Guest
Actually, NFP forces spouses to make sure they keep up communications and is very helpful to the marriage.
And I think you’re misinformed about NFP; once you’ve learned the method, your abstinence periods should be less than a week out of each month. If you can’t wait a week, what the heck are you going to do if your spouse is sick, gone to visit relatives, deployed, on a business trip, etc.?
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rayne89
Guest
You tell your daughters NFP won’t work unless they have a very understanding husband.
So do you then tell them it’s exceptable to use artificial birth control. Erratic cycles should not effect NFP -you go by symptoms of fertility. I’ve used NFP for 10 years without pregnancy because another pregnancy would be fatal for me. Going without sex for between 10 days and two weeks hardly seems like “quite a while” to me (I use very conservative guidelines for obvious reasons). Yeah it’s tough sometimes but so are many things in life. It also teaches spouses not to be selfish and often draws them closer together.Maybe you should have your daughters read this article
msnbc.msn.com/id/17282285/
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Everette
Guest
Isn’t NFP contraception as well if you are using it to avoid having kids? What’s the difference?
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bookgirl
Guest
The difference is that while you’re trying to avoid pregnancy, you’re not voluntarily removing the possibility of it. My husband and I wanted to avoid pregnancy the first year of our marriage, our son was born almost exactly nine months later. We used NFP. NFP didn’t fail, it in fact did exactly what it was supposed to do, left it up to God. It’s hard to accept, and it’s a constant battle, to give up the control. Thank God we did, our baby boy is the best!
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Jay2
Guest
Because it’s easier to simply say “NO”… than write 347+ thousand amendments stating what’s permissable.
The church has the ultimate “fall back - cover all” answer… abstinance…“If you don’t do it, there’s no worries”.
(easy to say when you’re not allowed to be married IMO)
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fellowChristian
Guest
Altesse-
Gen 1:28, 9:1,7; 35:11 - from the beginning, the Lord commands us to be fruitful (“fertile”) and multiply. A husband and wife fulfill God’s plan for marriage in the bringing forth of new life, for God is life itself.
Gen. 28:3 - Isaac’s prayer over Jacob shows that fertility and procreation are considered blessings from God.
Exodus 23:25-26; Deut. 7:13-14 - God promises blessings which include no miscarriages or barrenness. Children are blessings from God, and married couples must always be open to God’s plan for new life with every act of marital intimacy.
1 Chron. 25:5 - God exalts His people by blessing them with many children. When married couples contracept, they are declaring “not your will God, but my will be done.”
Eph. 5:25 - Paul instructs husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the Church, by giving his entire body to her and holding nothing back. With contraception, husbands tell their wives, I love you except your fertility, and you can have me except for my fertility. This love is a lie because it is self-centered, and not self-giving and life-giving.
1 Tim. 2:15 - childbearing is considered a “work” through which women may be saved by God’s grace.
**There are many verses I could quote that show children as blessings. But our problem is that we choose to listen to society. The world I live in says children are a burden. They cost to much,they are to noisy,to messy,they distract you from yourself and your needs.
“They” are not who I choose to listen to. And when people think it is a building and humans telling me what to do or not to do. “They” don’t know what “they” are saying.
Jesus is one with His church. Jesus IS the church. I listen to Jesus and God the Father who spoke through scripure.
Not people, who can barely take care of themselves let alone a family.
I can raise 5 children and take care of my husband, our home our dog,our bills, and work a fulltime graveyard job.And know it is not I alone but Christ who is with me.
Call it what ever you want. It is still wrong in the eyes of God. Rationalize it all you will. It is still wrong in the eyes of God. I know it.You know it. But selfish needs blinds you from accepting it.
In serving my children I am serving our Lord.In serving my husband I am serving our Lord. Jesus did not come to be served. He came to serve.
Who do you serve?
One final note–
Before 1517 there were no Protestants, so if you were alive in 1516 and you believed in Christ.
You were Catholic!**
Gen 1:28, 9:1,7; 35:11 - from the beginning, the Lord commands us to be fruitful (“fertile”) and multiply. A husband and wife fulfill God’s plan for marriage in the bringing forth of new life, for God is life itself.
Gen. 28:3 - Isaac’s prayer over Jacob shows that fertility and procreation are considered blessings from God.
Exodus 23:25-26; Deut. 7:13-14 - God promises blessings which include no miscarriages or barrenness. Children are blessings from God, and married couples must always be open to God’s plan for new life with every act of marital intimacy.
1 Chron. 25:5 - God exalts His people by blessing them with many children. When married couples contracept, they are declaring “not your will God, but my will be done.”
Eph. 5:25 - Paul instructs husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the Church, by giving his entire body to her and holding nothing back. With contraception, husbands tell their wives, I love you except your fertility, and you can have me except for my fertility. This love is a lie because it is self-centered, and not self-giving and life-giving.
1 Tim. 2:15 - childbearing is considered a “work” through which women may be saved by God’s grace.
**There are many verses I could quote that show children as blessings. But our problem is that we choose to listen to society. The world I live in says children are a burden. They cost to much,they are to noisy,to messy,they distract you from yourself and your needs.
“They” are not who I choose to listen to. And when people think it is a building and humans telling me what to do or not to do. “They” don’t know what “they” are saying.
Jesus is one with His church. Jesus IS the church. I listen to Jesus and God the Father who spoke through scripure.
Not people, who can barely take care of themselves let alone a family.
I can raise 5 children and take care of my husband, our home our dog,our bills, and work a fulltime graveyard job.And know it is not I alone but Christ who is with me.
Call it what ever you want. It is still wrong in the eyes of God. Rationalize it all you will. It is still wrong in the eyes of God. I know it.You know it. But selfish needs blinds you from accepting it.
In serving my children I am serving our Lord.In serving my husband I am serving our Lord. Jesus did not come to be served. He came to serve.
Who do you serve?
One final note–
Before 1517 there were no Protestants, so if you were alive in 1516 and you believed in Christ.
You were Catholic!**
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debraran
Guest
Of course, I don’t tell them to use the pill, etc. but to be careful descerning a spouse…the “feelings” you have early on sometimes have you miss vital flaws that will hurt you later. Having a spouse that wont be flexible, mature, etc. will destroy some marriages and nowadays finding a counselor that wouldn’t think the NFP spouse wasn’t wrong, would be hard. I don’t think it’s wrong to make sure your potential spouse is seriously devout in that area and not just hoping he’ll be or saying whatever it takes not to argue about it. These things do happen. I’ve seen too many marriages go under with controling husbands, horrible fights over the children, etc. all because warning signs weren’t heeded. Nothing is perfect, but going in with your eyes open can only help. If you still have serious problems, you can at least say you tried.You tell your daughters NFP won’t work unless they have a very understanding husband.
Maybe you should have your daughters read this article
msnbc.msn.com/id/17282285/
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rayne89
Guest
I guess I misunderstood your post - my apologies.
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Sina
Guest
“the children are spaced further than nursing (natural ovulation suppressor) would make them. 3-4 years instead of 1-2. .”
that doesn’t work naurally. My mom had me right after my brother ( we are 12 months apart ) because she thought she would get a break from being pregnant due to breastfeeding. Seems like old school thinking to me, and she learned that.
that doesn’t work naurally. My mom had me right after my brother ( we are 12 months apart ) because she thought she would get a break from being pregnant due to breastfeeding. Seems like old school thinking to me, and she learned that.
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debraran
Guest
Rayne89, that’s okay, posts are hard to read sometimes, especially if they are written fast or you don’t “hear the voice”.
I agree about nursing…I nursed a lot and got my period 2-3 months later, I would never use that alone for birth control although it might work for some.
I agree about nursing…I nursed a lot and got my period 2-3 months later, I would never use that alone for birth control although it might work for some.
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Altesse
Guest
Again, from reading other threads, many people (both husbands and wives writing) express frustration with their spouse’s attitudes and behavior, so it seems to cause a real hardship for these couples. Then it sounds like they are feeling/being condemned (by the Church and fellow Catholics) if they do something “not allowed” to try to appease/please their spouse.Long periods of abstinence? It’s what, at most about two weeks. If you burn with so much desire for your spouse maybe God is calling you to have a baby.
I am not married, never have been. (BC days involved intimacy outside of marriage). I have just been reading some threads about NFP. I understood from one couple that ended up only able to have relations once a month, and if the temp/whatever you check was off, not even that often. That seems a little odd to me. I probably misunderstood the statement.
Maybe I am unusual for a woman thinking that daily or at least 3-4 times a week is good. But at my age I won’t need to try to stop a baby, I would need a serious miracle to get one :tissues: .
I would like a husband, just haven’t found the right one (I’m not looking too hard though).
How is this particular to NFP? Marriage requires selflessness in all aspects. If one of the spouses is selfish or immature about any part of the marriage it can cause damage… but nothing is irrevocable if both the spouses change their ways and go back to selflessly giving themselves to each other.
Again, I may be reading this wrong, (or only the selfish, immature folks are the only ones to post on those threads
).
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mercygate
Guest
Perspective is a problem. We have come to think of sexual gratification as a thing in itself, and something to which we are entitled, pretty much at will. It’s the “thing in itself” part that is the problem. Moreover, we have been enticed by the allure of freedom associated with contraception. But not so long ago, if a couple needed to avoid a pregnancy, for many couples (I know some) the only option was a life of complete abstinence --whether you were Catholic Protestant or Hindu.Again, from reading other threads, many people (both husbands and wives writing) express frustration with their spouse’s attitudes and behavior, so it seems to cause a real hardship for these couples. Then it sounds like they are feeling/being condemned (by the Church and fellow Catholics) if they do something “not allowed” to try to appease/please their spouse.
Again, I may be reading this wrong, (or only the selfish, immature folks are the only ones to post on those threads
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brianwalden
Guest
The real problem here isn’t NFP. I think so many people rail on NFP because it makes an easy target for criticism. If NFP is a stumbling block for you, don’t use it. The Church requires that everyone be chaste, not that everyone use NFP. I haven’t heard anyone make an argument that the Church’s interpretation of human sexuality is wrong (in fact I challenge anyone to find anyone who offers a more beautiful explanation of our sexuality).
If you’re using NFP as “Catholic contraception,” then it very well may put a strain on your marriage. If you’re using it as a way to be responsible in the way you grow your family so that you can live your marriage as a vocation to God, you may find it easier to use.
If you’re using NFP as “Catholic contraception,” then it very well may put a strain on your marriage. If you’re using it as a way to be responsible in the way you grow your family so that you can live your marriage as a vocation to God, you may find it easier to use.
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