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LaSainte
Guest
What the???
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1ke
Guest
No this is NOT OK.
If she doesn’t like “mess” or she is uncomfortable, then then need to abstain not commit mortal sins.
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bmullins
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KostyaJMJ
Guest
So if I find waking up at 5 disagreeable does that mean I can stop supporting my family? Would my wife be inconsiderate if she continued to pressure me to wake up in the morning when I didn’t enjoy it?
It’s the duty of both husband and wife to support one another in sexual matters. Unless there is a valid reason for refusing relations you can’t leave your spouse out in the cold, and there is no way that finding sperm icky is a valid reason to refuse sex.
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bmullins
Guest
- I’m not talking about finding sperm icky, I’m talking about being uncomfortable. There is a big difference. If it’s causing my wife pain, then it’s me who should be supporting her by not making her do something that causes pain.
- If you have a family to support and you don’t because you don’t like to wake up at 5… isn’t that YOU being selfish? If your wife woke you up because she knew you had to be at work that’s not her being inconsiderate, it’s her helping you to realize that you are being selfish and not caring about her or the kids.
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KostyaJMJ
Guest
- My apologies, the thread has been about finding sperm icky and being uncomfortable with the clean up. Pain is a valid reason to turn down your spouse, but I still think there is a world of difference between being uncomfortable and being in pain.
- Agreed.
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SaintRose2004
Guest
So why is contraception wrong? I thought it was because you are not supposed to hinder the possibility of new life being created. With pregnancy there is no chance of that happening so I didn’t understand why it would be wrong to use it in some circumstances.
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1ke
Guest
Not exactly. Each act of intercourse must be both unitive and procreative, objectively. So, it must be a completed, unaltered act of intercourse or it is disordered, whether it subjectively results in conception or not.
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smithec
Guest
I have to say this thread has been interesting and I’m coming into it late, but I’ve been trying to research this exact same issue recently. What I’m surprised by is that so many people are quick to say that this not ordered, but no one has been able to post where the Church actually says this.
The best reference I’ve found so far is paragraph 59 of Casti Connubii which does make reference to the “proper manner” and “primary end”. I can’t tell if the proper manner is traditional intercourse or a mental state/loving willingness (a reader could come to either conclusion and I’m not interested in drawing opinions I’m looking for concrete support), but it is very clear Pius XI saw the primary end as fertility, and that he puts this end above all others (mutual aid, mutual love, quieting of desire).
The Catechism (CCC2352) is clear that Masturbation in and of itself is always wrong, even when the wife is infertile as doing a solo act then would be without any procreative or unitive purpose and meets the definition of (lust (CCC2351)).
I suspect what the OP is looking for is an answer to if it is acceptable to enjoy non-intercourse climax during an infertile time (pregnancy). There are a lot of what ifs around this question, is it done in a loving way to bring the spouses together or just to satisfy desire, is intercourse an available option or is there a physical reason (pain, infection, postpartum) that prevents it, will intercourse be enjoyed before or after this climax?
These are questions that I can’t answer yet, but I hope that maybe someone out there has some links to actual documents that might answer these questions or that might provide more insight in the Church’s official teaching around this issue. As it is I feel that the Church would frown upon male-climax outside of intercourse, however that is my informed opinion and I can’t say for certain that doing such in your situation would be a mortal sin, and there are so many what ifs once again (what if climax has happened once already, what if penetration has already occurred as there is a chance from any contact, etc.) that it’s hard to cover all the bases.
The best reference I’ve found so far is paragraph 59 of Casti Connubii which does make reference to the “proper manner” and “primary end”. I can’t tell if the proper manner is traditional intercourse or a mental state/loving willingness (a reader could come to either conclusion and I’m not interested in drawing opinions I’m looking for concrete support), but it is very clear Pius XI saw the primary end as fertility, and that he puts this end above all others (mutual aid, mutual love, quieting of desire).
The Catechism (CCC2352) is clear that Masturbation in and of itself is always wrong, even when the wife is infertile as doing a solo act then would be without any procreative or unitive purpose and meets the definition of (lust (CCC2351)).
I suspect what the OP is looking for is an answer to if it is acceptable to enjoy non-intercourse climax during an infertile time (pregnancy). There are a lot of what ifs around this question, is it done in a loving way to bring the spouses together or just to satisfy desire, is intercourse an available option or is there a physical reason (pain, infection, postpartum) that prevents it, will intercourse be enjoyed before or after this climax?
These are questions that I can’t answer yet, but I hope that maybe someone out there has some links to actual documents that might answer these questions or that might provide more insight in the Church’s official teaching around this issue. As it is I feel that the Church would frown upon male-climax outside of intercourse, however that is my informed opinion and I can’t say for certain that doing such in your situation would be a mortal sin, and there are so many what ifs once again (what if climax has happened once already, what if penetration has already occurred as there is a chance from any contact, etc.) that it’s hard to cover all the bases.
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Leegal
Guest
No. Withdrawal has it’s own problems – possible medical ones and should absolutely be avoided because it’s contrary to the Church teachings, (despite the information out there that advocate for this). Please research that process to better understand the potential harm posited by “Masters and Johnson.”
Masturbation is always wrong.
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Leegal
Guest
Fr. Serpa on Masturbation. There was an answer by Fr. Serpa on mutual masturbation within marriage but I cannot find it. He said it was not allowed. This was the closest I could find.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2286298&postcount=2
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2286298&postcount=2
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vera_dicere
Guest
There have been a few cases where a woman already pregnant has fallen pregnant again. I think there was a woman in Italy a few years back where she was 3 months pregnant, had sex, and got pregnant again, so her first baby was born normally and the other baby came three months later. Something about duel ovulation. I’ve also read of cases where women have had two sets of reproductive organs, and gotten pregnant in one, and then several months later fallen pregnant in the other.
Anyway, that is very, VERY rare.
As for the OP, the other answers about ordering the act towards procreation are correct. No contraception. No withdrawl, and certainly, certainlY NO masturbation.
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Nate13
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hazmat
Guest
i read somewhere about a woman who was pregnant with two kids from two different men.
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adopted_heir
Guest
I’ve talked about this with my husband, who went to a private Catholic college with very dependable, orthodox priests who, every month, would host a dinner for just the young men, where they could ask anything, and this question came up. The priest’s answer was pretty much, “Anything goes as long as it’s just the two of you and things end the right way.” I personally don’t see the mortal sin in withdrawal (or the point in ABC) during pregnancy. The end has already been achieved–she’s pregnant–so you can’t hinder that end. And while some women find sex during pregnancy still very nice, the wonders of hormones can make things like her gag reflex go nuts over things that, non-pregnantly 
, wouldn’t bother her. Since they’ve already achieved the main end of intercourse, this is a very important time for them to work on the other ends–bonding and intimacy, because their relationship is about to go through a huge stressor when Baby’s born. The purpose of withdrawal in this case isn’t contraception so I don’t see the point in getting overly-scrupulous over what joys a man and wife can share.
Besides, what happens if a man finishes before things are properly begun? Is he in mortal sin for just not being quick enough? It’s embarrassing, but will it really send you to hell?
, wouldn’t bother her. Since they’ve already achieved the main end of intercourse, this is a very important time for them to work on the other ends–bonding and intimacy, because their relationship is about to go through a huge stressor when Baby’s born. The purpose of withdrawal in this case isn’t contraception so I don’t see the point in getting overly-scrupulous over what joys a man and wife can share.Besides, what happens if a man finishes before things are properly begun? Is he in mortal sin for just not being quick enough? It’s embarrassing, but will it really send you to hell?
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EvelynEVF
Guest
If a man ejaculates prematurely, it’s not a sin at all, because it was an accident. Masturbation during pregnancy would be sinful because it isn’t ordered to the unitive purpose of sex.
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