Contraception in Marriage

[PaulinVA]

It sounds like you went from “we are done” as a reason in and of itself to “we are done” because we want to focus on the children we have, we are spread so thin, we need reserves for what lays ahead with the children we have, or we can not handle any more kids. So the Church does, in fact, accept “we are done” as a conclusion (as long as it means using NFP, not contraceptives and still open to life) as long as it is for a reason that the couple believes to be serious.

The" we are done" decision does have many components to it. Resources, emotional temperament, situations with the present children, age of parents, all are (name removed by moderator)uts to the decision. You just don’t say, “We are done”. There are reasons. However, the vibe, the ethos, the feeling among many Catholics here is that medical or health reasons are valid, but “we have enough”, based on emotional, practical, or financial reasons , is not “serious”.

We are probably on the same page here but it seems you are using a poor choice of words that makes it sound like you don’t believe there needs to be a serious reason to use NFP. I don’t think that you think that.

I usually pick my words very carefully. What I am trying to convey is the Church doesn’t seem to think that a couple can ever make a permanent decision to stop having kids because the family is built out. That should be a valid decision. I understand that there should be a serious reason to stop trying, but once that decision is made, I don’t think monthly re-evaluation is necessary. Maybe a positive decision, “Hey, we won the lottery. Let’s have more kids or take in foster children” instead of a negative decision every month. There’s no need for a couple in their early fifties (where the heck is menopause?) to evaluate every month if they should have another child. As Orasi said downthread, maternal age is a serious reason at a certain point.

Suppose a young couple has one child soon after marriage. The child hampers the couple’s lifestyle of going out to the boat, drinking, and being merry. The couple then says “we are done” because another child would really hamper our lifestyle. Suppose that this is the sole reason for the couple using NFP for the rest of their marriage. Do you believe they would be morally justified? I would say no because the reason is not a serious reason that could even remotely fall in line with those specified in Humanae Vitae.

Well, I could argue that such shallow and self-absorbed people should not reproduce. However, to think that those people would successfully use NFP for 30 years is probably not a valid argument. I do understand your question and, while I am hesitant to second guess any couple’s NFP decisions, I would tend to agree with you that they are not using it correctly.

 

[sainthumbert]

The" we are done" decision does have many components to it. Resources, emotional temperament, situations with the present children, age of parents, all are (name removed by moderator)uts to the decision. You just don’t say, “We are done”. There are reasons. However, the vibe, the ethos, the feeling among many Catholics here is that medical or health reasons are valid, but “we have enough”, based on emotional, practical, or financial reasons , is not “serious”.

I can’t argue with that.

I usually pick my words very carefully. What I am trying to convey is the Church doesn’t seem to think that a couple can ever make a permanent decision to stop having kids because the family is built out. That should be a valid decision. I understand that there should be a serious reason to stop trying, but once that decision is made, I don’t think monthly re-evaluation is necessary. Maybe a positive decision, “Hey, we won the lottery. Let’s have more kids or take in foster children” instead of a negative decision every month. There’s no need for a couple in their early fifties (where the heck is menopause?) to evaluate every month if they should have another child. As Orasi said downthread, maternal age is a serious reason at a certain point.

Humanae Vitae says, “With regard to physical, economic, psychological and social conditions, responsible parenthood is exercised by those who prudently and generously decide to have more children, and by those who, for serious reasons and with due respect to moral precepts, decide not to have additional children for either a certain or an indefinite period of time…” I think the Church was wise in saying indefinite instead of definite because, as you said, things can change. Peoples’ financial situations, marriages, health, and even outlook can change instantly. The Church, as far as I know, doesn’t require any set periodic re-evaluation of the decision.

Well, I could argue that such shallow and self-absorbed people should not reproduce. However, to think that those people would successfully use NFP for 30 years is probably not a valid argument. I do understand your question and, while I am hesitant to second guess any couple’s NFP decisions, I would tend to agree with you that they are not using it correctly.

Then it doesn’t seem there is much daylight between our positions. We both agree that there must be a serious reason to use NFP and that not just any reason can constitute a serious reason.

I have been unable to find the full text of the following statement, but according to Fr. John Hardon SJ, the former secretary of state under Pius XII said, “We may wonder if nowadays too much interest is not shown in this question (of periodic continence) and if, in this way, we are not trying rather to encourage the limitation of births than their natural coming to light. We should speak more about their increase and less about their limitation. Too often selfishness tries to justify the reasons for limitation. And yet selfishness is what extinguishes life, fertility and love. We should like to see the Catholic family do its utmost to preserve its nobility as a source of fertility, where the children brought into the world are at once a tribute to the virtues of the parents and a sign of their role as procreators of life. A large number of children will proclaim their parent’s fidelity to one another, their love of God and faith in His providence, and their affection for the offspring which He gave.”

I share the secretary of state’s point of view. Too often selfishness tries to justify the reasons for limitation.

 

[PaulinVA]

Then it doesn’t seem there is much daylight between our positions. We both agree that there must be a serious reason to use NFP and that not just any reason can constitute a serious reason.

I totally agree with you in the middle of fertility, before the family is "complete:. Serious/grave reasons and monthly/periodic evaluation.

I share the secretary of state’s point of view. Too often selfishness tries to justify the reasons for limitation.

I won’t dispute that. However, we can also be selfish is pursuing a larger family if we think that is some sort of sign of holiness, and we keep adding to the family to the detriment of the spouse or the already-present children.

 

[aaronlgates]

Yes, a Catholic couple can prudently say they are done having children. It’s a matter of conscience. It is reasonable to avoid pregnancy because you feel you have all the children you can handle. However, we need to be careful that these decisions are based on need rather than wants. For example, if your house is holding all the people it reasonably can and you can’t afford a bigger house, you could avoid pregnancy. But if having another child would mean a family could no longer afford to vacation at Disney Land and Hawaii every year, that would probably not be the best reason to avoid more children. There’s a lot of grey area, but each couple needs to prayerfully consider these decisions.

That being said, even if there are legitimate grave reasons to avoid having more children, every marital act must be open to life. We are never supposed to use artificial birth control.

I’m enjoying a very mature and Catholic discussion here… And I appreciate the approach to NFP that y’all are taking. I thought I’d comment on the ‘house being too small… income being too little’ line of thought… Think outside the box a bit and imagine the large Mexican families living in a 2 room home… With limited income… And struggles for sure… But joy no doubt.

Our culture is powerful in its ability to blind us to realities that are not real and needs that are truly wants.