Contraception - Ladies - Men

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In regards to the zygote, man is made in the image of God. A zygote is a zygote. But it is God Who gives life to the human being. It is His will to give life.

Sex is the means to create a human being. Those of faith see it as well as our cooperating with God to bring forth a new person into this world. Any responsible parent knows you want to provide the best for your child. And the materialistic lifestyle is one of the worst things you can provide. It is character.
 
larkin31 said:
All I am saying is that in either case a fertilized complete “individual” is lost. The lack of pregnancy is intended; the result is welcome.

And not all couples can precisely predict the actual time of ovulation. And as we know, the only foolproof (we are all fools) method of avoiding pregnancy is total abstinence. But God is opposed to that in a marriage, apparently.
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  1. NFP does not cause early miscarriage.
  2. I find it uncharitable that you say that the result is “welcome” I lost a “surprise” baby. My miscarriage was not “welcome” it was completely haertbreaking.
I hope you never experience that pain.
 
Mary_Gail_36 said:
  1. NFP does not cause early miscarriage.
  2. I find it uncharitable that you say that the result is “welcome” I lost a “surprise” baby. My miscarriage was not “welcome” it was completely haertbreaking.
I hope you never experience that pain.
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My wife and I lost a pregnancy, yes. Something like 30% of pregnancies end in miscarriage.

I did not say that NFP “caused” miscarriage. I said that one result (albeit rare) is that some fertilized embryos are sloughed off through menstruation, and since NFP for many couples is used to AVOID pregnancy, that non-pregnancy result is “welcome.” Why is this concept so hard for people? Why do you keep twisting my words? Why can’t you acknowledge that NFP results in some losses of fertilized zygotes? This is common knowledge, really.
 
KathleenGee said:
In regards to the zygote, man is made in the image of God. A zygote is a zygote. But it is God Who gives life to the human being. It is His will to give life.

Sex is the means to create a human being. Those of faith see it as well as our cooperating with God to bring forth a new person into this world. Any responsible parent knows you want to provide the best for your child. And the materialistic lifestyle is one of the worst things you can provide. It is character.
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According to Genesis, sex is meant to rejoin the flesh of the two genders back into the original one creation.
 
I am pretty sure I had a very early miscarriage…nevertheless, I felt God’s presence, but I had been in too much stress at that time in my life…there is a current thread running on fear of unbaptized infant not going to heaven because of no baptism…there is a post just out by TBCrawford that indirectly addresses whether or not the final plight of the unbaptized infants…

But I think there is a difference between a fertilized egg/zygote that God does not choose to give life to vs a miscarried infant.
 
KathleenGee said:
I am pretty sure I had a very early miscarriage…nevertheless, I felt God’s presence, but I had been in too much stress at that time in my life…there is a current thread running on fear of unbaptized infant not going to heaven because of no baptism…there is a post just out by TBCrawford that indirectly addresses whether or not the final plight of the unbaptized infants…

But I think there is a difference between a fertilized egg/zygote that God does not choose to give life to vs a miscarried infant.
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a qualitative difference? A *moral *difference? It is unusual for a Catholic to say so, thus my questions.
 
It is God who gives life, the immortal soul, and personhood to a human being at conception. It is God Who gives spirit. Fertilized egg can be passed, but it does not make it a person unless God gives it life as stated. Fertilized eggs not implanting…you can’t compare that to a viable pregnancy.

God is the author of life…and what is viable and what is not is also part of the mystery of God’s plan. So I don’t mourn over that which I do not know even exists…and to exist for me, means a viable pregnancy whether carried full term or miscarried. Either are/were persons and I prayed for the one I lost…and believe through baptism of desire…because God knows I would have baptized my baby.

I think I am going to resume praying for the unborn for their passing into heaven.
 
larkin31 said:
Sex in the Bible is not sacred. I wonder where you get that idea.
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This statement lacks an understanding of God. Why even Protestants would say sex between husband and wife is sacred. You statement also shows a lack of knowledge about the bible. Now covenant theology is a different understanding about what Christ raised marriage to be, a sacrament…or covenant between man and woman with
God.

The 7 sacraments are also known as the sacred mysteries for a reason. It’s a mystery and far beyond our comprehension to truly understand as God does. We need only realize and accept them as Christ handed them to us by apostolic succession through the bishops. There are so many passages in scripture that make no sense with a bible only and Protestant interpretation outside the bounds of Church’s teaching.
 
eucharisteo said:
This statement lacks an understanding of God. Why even Protestants would say sex between husband and wife is sacred. You statement also shows a lack of knowledge about the bible. Now covenant theology is a different understanding about what Christ raised marriage to be, a sacrament…or covenant between man and woman with
God.

The 7 sacraments are also known as the sacred mysteries for a reason. It’s a mystery and far beyond our comprehension to truly understand as God does. We need only realize and accept them as Christ handed them to us by apostolic succession through the bishops. There are so many passages in scripture that make no sense with a bible only and Protestant interpretation outside the bounds of Church’s teaching.
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If I don’t understand the Bible, then show me where sex is made sacred in it. I am simply asking where the passage(s) is that points to this. Genesis? Man “cleaving” to woman? Does Jesus comment on sex? I don’t recall that he does.
 
larkin31 said:
If I don’t understand the Bible, then show me where sex is made sacred in it. I am simply asking where the passage(s) is that points to this. Genesis? Man “cleaving” to woman? Does Jesus comment on sex? I don’t recall that he does.
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Jesus refers to “in the beginning” when answering a question about marriage. (Mt 19:3-8) God created marriage in the beginning - in Genesis. Why is sex sacred - why is it different from animals procreating? There are so many aspects to the answer of this question, but I’ll try to be brief.

God created mankind uniquely among the animals because man was made in “Original Solitude” - God saw this as not being complete because Man is made in His image - thus, man needs to be in relation with another (you can not love without someone to love - God is love - part of the reason for belief in the Trinity). Thus, God made Mankind into Man and Woman (Genesis only begins the story with two distinct genders in one of the accounts). They were created in a marriage relationship to one another in order to make the truest sense of love possible, and thus in order to be a complete image of God’s love.

This love relationship, which God made to exist within the marriage, is also unique among other creatures in that the husband and wife come together to create another being made in the image of God. Animals procreate, but they do not create creatures with souls. They do not possess the free will in order to experience the self-sacrificial love which we are able to experience. When we redefine the marital relationship to be simply the same as animals, we are denying the definition of love which God uniquely instilled in our creation.

If you want a stronger understanding of what the Catholic church teaches, look into JPII’s Theology of the Body.
 
anns82 said:
Jesus refers to “in the beginning” when answering a question about marriage. (Mt 19:3-8) God created marriage in the beginning - in Genesis. Why is sex sacred - why is it different from animals procreating? There are so many aspects to the answer of this question, but I’ll try to be brief.

God created mankind uniquely among the animals because man was made in “Original Solitude” - God saw this as not being complete because Man is made in His image - thus, man needs to be in relation with another (you can not love without someone to love - God is love - part of the reason for belief in the Trinity). Thus, God made Mankind into Man and Woman (Genesis only begins the story with two distinct genders in one of the accounts). They were created in a marriage relationship to one another in order to make the truest sense of love possible, and thus in order to be a complete image of God’s love.

This love relationship, which God made to exist within the marriage, is also unique among other creatures in that the husband and wife come together to create another being made in the image of God. Animals procreate, but they do not create creatures with souls. They do not possess the free will in order to experience the self-sacrificial love which we are able to experience. When we redefine the marital relationship to be simply the same as animals, we are denying the definition of love which God uniquely instilled in our creation.

If you want a stronger understanding of what the Catholic church teaches, look into JPII’s Theology of the Body.
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I was interested in Biblical references. I am aware of the RCC position. I disagree, and I do not see that you have any scriptural references here. Is there anything more?
 
larkin31 said:
I was interested in Biblical references. I am aware of the RCC position. I disagree, and I do not see that you have any scriptural references here. Is there anything more?
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The biblical reference is in the meaning of Genesis. Why do you disagree specifically? Do you expect God to have every single thing written out for you on every topic? Do you think that cloning is okay simply because God or Jesus did not tell the Jewish people not to create a perfect genetic copy of a person? God gave us critically thinking brains for a reason.

You say you are aware of the Catholic position, yet you do not seem to understand why the Church holds its position.
 
anns82 said:
The biblical reference is in the meaning of Genesis. Why do you disagree specifically? Do you expect God to have every single thing written out for you on every topic? Do you think that cloning is okay simply because God or Jesus did not tell the Jewish people not to create a perfect genetic copy of a person? God gave us critically thinking brains for a reason.

You say you are aware of the Catholic position, yet you do not seem to understand why the Church holds its position.
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Genetic engineering is absolutely ok. I don’t care what the Catholic Church has to say about it or any other religious organization. Why do you claim that people who disagree with you don’t understand you?
 
larkin31 said:
Genetic engineering is absolutely ok. I don’t care what the Catholic Church has to say about it or any other religious organization. Why do you claim that people who disagree with you don’t understand you?
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No, I am claiming that you specifically do not know the actual reasoning behind the sacredness of sex because I gave you the biblical reference and you dismissed it as if I was supposed to supply a verse in which God says “Thou shalt not…” Considering you do not understand the biblical reference, and can not produce an argument against the Theology of the Body, you are apparently basing your dismissal of the Catholic approach simply on what you want to be the believe. You might as well claim that the earth is flat and refuse to read anything which contradicts your incomplete understanding. You ask a question about meaning (the sacredness of sex), yet you do not care to actually consider the reasoning behind the answer. You only believe what you want to believe. How convenient.
 
larkin31 said:
I was interested in Biblical references. I am aware of the RCC position. I disagree, and I do not see that you have any scriptural references here. Is there anything more?
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would it help to have more of a Jewish view on why sex is sacred my friend? the rabbinic sages, and mystics had alot to say. peace 🙂
 
benidict said:
would it help to have more of a Jewish view on why sex is sacred my friend? the rabbinic sages, and mystics had alot to say. peace 🙂
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did those sages and mystics actually have sex? 😉

sure, what you got for us?
 
larkin31 said:
did those sages and mystics actually have sex? 😉

sure, what you got for us?
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actually yes. and they had alot to say about it. if you want to deepen your sexual relationship with your wife. read what some of the orthodox Jews have wrote. its incredible. and putting it into practice is more incredible still. no joke. its a very Holy and Sacred act. you actually can in spirit become One with that person. i can p.m. you the actual practices. there might be young ears and eyes here. but we can discuss the symbology of the star of David if you like. Peace 🙂
 
benidict said:
actually yes. and they had alot to say about it. if you want to deepen your sexual relationship with your wife. read what some of the orthodox Jews have wrote. its incredible. and putting it into practice is more incredible still. no joke. its a very Holy and Sacred act. you actually can in spirit become One with that person. i can p.m. you the actual practices. there might be young ears and eyes here. but we can discuss the symbology of the star of David if you like. Peace 🙂
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um, keep it public

what the heck are you talking about?
 
larkin31 said:
um, keep it public

what the heck are you talking about?
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you were asking for biblical references, as to why sex is sacred. not many. but the extrabiblical writings are great for this. take the Star of David for example. it has many meanings. one of which is that it represents, male and female combined form the image of the invisible God. this makes it a sacred union. the covenant of marriage added onto that, makes it more so. if you study the Kaballalistic tree of life. it teaches 72 ways of understanding God, within the spheres. the kama sutra from india, teaches that within every woman are 72 different aspects. and it is up to the male to draw each one of them out. one man, one woman. and a lifetime of discovery! to say this act is anything other than sacred, is to miss a huge piece of the picture. there are other traditions as well that expond on this. the scented garden, in islam. and also text by the chinese. Peace 🙂
 
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