Contraception - Ladies - Men

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I have been thinking about this for some days now, not even knowing about this thread.

When ever I would use condoms, I would always feel guilty or even kind of dirty. I never understood it or connected the dots. I was under the understanding there was nothing wrong with birth control, but I see now my soul knew it was wrong. Even when my wife was on the pill i felt this way but the guilt wasn’t as powerful. I can only compare the feeling of guilt and dirtiness as to when I used to masturbate. God lets us know when we are sinning.
 
you were asking for biblical references, as to why sex is sacred. not many. but the extrabiblical writings are great for this. take the Star of David for example. it has many meanings. one of which is that it represents, male and female combined form the image of the invisible God. this makes it a sacred union. the covenant of marriage added onto that, makes it more so. if you study the Kaballalistic tree of life. it teaches 72 ways of understanding God, within the spheres. the kama sutra from india, teaches that within every woman are 72 different aspects. and it is up to the male to draw each one of them out. one man, one woman. and a lifetime of discovery! to say this act is anything other than sacred, is to miss a huge piece of the picture. there are other traditions as well that expond on this. the scented garden, in islam. and also text by the chinese. Peace 🙂
the triangles of the Star of David are male and female? How so?
 
I was interested in Biblical references. I am aware of the RCC position. I disagree, and I do not see that you have any scriptural references here. Is there anything more?
I am still wondering why it is you disagree with the Theology of the Body.
Or do you actually not know the Catholic Church teaching?

Is there a reason why you reject Genesis as scripture, even when Jesus referred to it when discussing marriage?
 
I am still wondering why it is you disagree with the Theology of the Body.
Or do you actually not know the Catholic Church teaching?

Is there a reason why you reject Genesis as scripture, even when Jesus referred to it when discussing marriage?
I consider “theology of the body” to be an emotional crime
 
Then why do you bother coming to CAF ??? What are you trying to gain or prove?
 
the triangles of the Star of David are male and female? How so?
one triangle up, one triangle down. one of which represents the male half, the other which represents the female half. joined together, they form one image. it has many other meanings which could take a book to explain. this is but one. if you take the name of God in the hebrew. and place one letter on top of the other, it also represents male and female in union. interstingly enough, the yod, going into the he. and the vav going into the he, are representative of male and female again combined, forming the image of the invisible God. and even if the scripture is not explicit on the sacredness of the union between husband and wife, it is certainly implied. starting in genisis, and escpecially in the song of songs. the song of songs is more allegorical. but look at the language used. viewed in the language of the bible, and the rabbinical sages, it sure looks like male female relationships go far deeper, than a mere physical urge or union. Peace 🙂
 
Your stats don’t mean there’s over population in the whole world. Sure several countries don’t need any more numbers but the world has more room.
It’s funny how people talk about the good old days…and the things they tend to point to as what made them “good” directly relate to there being fewer people.
 
I have been thinking about this for some days now, not even knowing about this thread.

When ever I would use condoms, I would always feel guilty or even kind of dirty. I never understood it or connected the dots. I was under the understanding there was nothing wrong with birth control, but I see now my soul knew it was wrong. Even when my wife was on the pill i felt this way but the guilt wasn’t as powerful. I can only compare the feeling of guilt and dirtiness as to when I used to masturbate. God lets us know when we are sinning.
I always felt just the opposite, I felt and still do it was without any shadow of a doubt the correct thing to do.
 
I have been thinking about this for some days now, not even knowing about this thread.

When ever I would use condoms, I would always feel guilty or even kind of dirty. I never understood it or connected the dots. I was under the understanding there was nothing wrong with birth control, but I see now my soul knew it was wrong. Even when my wife was on the pill i felt this way but the guilt wasn’t as powerful. I can only compare the feeling of guilt and dirtiness as to when I used to masturbate. God lets us know when we are sinning.
I have to commend you for being so brave that you speak so frank about your past. Admitting one’s own sins that separates us from God is very difficult to do.
This is the kind of thing I am looking for from others. I firmly believe that most of the people acting like it doesn’t bother them tend to cover up the truth about how they feel within themselves.
 
I have to commend you for being so brave that you speak so frank about your past. Admitting one’s own sins that separates us from God is very difficult to do.
This is the kind of thing I am looking for from others. I firmly believe that most of the people acting like it doesn’t bother them tend to cover up the truth about how they feel within themselves.
Wouldn’t that rather depend on who you ask? It’s hardly surprising that some Catholics, brought up to think that contraception is very naughty, would feel that they had been/were being naughty.

Meanwhile, people who hadn’t had that background and had not been converted to being enthusiastic Catholics would be likely to think very differently.
 
I don’t want to argue this. I am just expressing an opinion. I care not at all if anyone agrees or changes their mind.
I am not actually trying to change your mind - and I am not actually expecting you to try to change my mind. We can agree to disagree. I have no problem with that. The reason why I press the subject is because the Theology of the Body is a rational, phenomenological argument which was written through an understanding of Theology and Human Nature. Plus, it was composed recently enough to address many of the issues of contemporary society, which stem from the writings of Marx, Freud, and taking Darwinism too far.

You asked about an element which is addressed (the sacredness of sex), and you dismiss it for no coherent reason. You claim to understand it , yet you are not able to explain why you disagree. Disbelief in the Judeo/Christian God is a legitimate reason not to agree. But, if you believe in God, and that the Bible provides revelation into who He is, then you should be able to explain where you believe JPII went wrong in his exegesis.
 
Wouldn’t that rather depend on who you ask? It’s hardly surprising that some Catholics, brought up to think that contraception is very naughty, would feel that they had been/were being naughty.

Meanwhile, people who hadn’t had that background and had not been converted to being enthusiastic Catholics would be likely to think very differently.
Not me. Most all protestants were at one time of the same upbringing on the matter. I would say that they those not relating to this idea were brought up with a different understanding of what marriage and the marital act. I’ve come to believe that most Protestants understanding about their relationship with God is quite distorted because of its absence from Church teaching. They tend to adopt all different types of understandings it seems. I say this having practiced several different faiths. I was Protestant growing up. But even we did not always attend church. In fact, most of the time we did not attend church at all. I felt something was wrong about that practice. But no one in the family seemed to disagree with mom, or dad, not attending their prospective church. Of course I was a child.

But most of my family was like this on mom’s side, Protestant. Dad’s side, Catholic, just didn’t seem to say anything either. I’m not even sure if mom really believed in God, because of the things she wold say. I’ve heard her call the Blessed Mother 2 very offensive names typically thought of about mean women and prostitutes in order to hurt my feelings about claiming to be Catholic. Dad said very offensive things about Protestants as well. Divorce was eminent by the time I was 5 or 6. In fact, I was the only brother not to attend kindergarten because of the “war” between my parents during that time.

Upon hearing about our first son being conceived, mom asked if we were gong to have the baby. That was gravely offensive to us. She manipulated my brother’s girlfriend into aborting her child, but never tried to stop him from all of his sexual encounters, some of which are far more x-rated than I care to even admit. One of them started towards me one morning after I woke up seeing them in the next bed. I jumped up and went into the next room totally disgusted by his sinful behavior, threesome. My Catholic dad, was just as bad and frankly was a hypocrite from my perspective. His sexual gratification was more important that his children. He was a deadbeat father on every since of the term. My mom was also a deadbeat mother in every sense of that term as well. So we all grew up in deep spiritual poverty.

This left me to seeking wisdom at an early age. All of us were borderline suicidal at best. My older brother succeeded at taking his life after his trophy girlfriend dumped him and all of his immoral activity in his life caught up with him. My younger brother has pushed for at least the one abortion and has had so many sexual encounters with other women that it is absolutely disgusting. Women have nearly thrown themselves at me, but my conscience began to develop at a very young age all because I started studying the scriptures on my own at a very young age. So bible only was always my Christian belief until I was in my late early 40’s where I found myself grappling with very difficult questions that seem to contradict solo scriptura [bible only] beliefs.

The other main subject that haunted me over the past 10 years was also rooted in things like “is masturbation a sin if it is natural?” Why is abortion actually wrong when it is not spelled out in scripture? Why is homosexuality wrong and how can anyone justify it is when the scripture clearly portray it as a gravely sinful life? And with the statements made in the bible how could anyone not see that some sins are more grave than others? I also began to ask questions particularly about in vetro fertilization. And in an attempt to remove what I saw as a disparity in my own beliefs I found myself trying to figure out if some of the books were contained in the bible that should have been left out.

From there I began to ask more complicated questions that I could not actually answer either, like: “who made the decision of which books belong in the bible?” “and what gave them the authority to do it”. If the Catholic Church defined the canon then why would be even trust any of it? I then realized that the 7 books of scripture were taken out in the 16th century and then I said, if the Catholic Church had no right to add or take away from the canon then how could anyone accept the 16th century version of it. It was so far removed from early Christianity as a whole and “faith alone” for salvation is an obvious heresy then what is true in the bible and finally "how can I trust anything contained in scripture as inspired?’ Get where this is going yet?
 
The only moral thing I figured out on my own by trial and error was to go through syllogism after syllogism to determine things taught in moral theology by the Catholic Church. The problem I had with that was “how could such a man made religious of such evil be right on such an important topic?” Over a few years God kept giving me hint after hint things that were more spiritual than cognitive to deal with, like the birth defect of our daughter.

At one point in the induced pregnancy I asked myself would I choose my wife or the baby if something went wrong. I said who am I to decide and how do I decide. God put me in that situation, I believe on purpose. I chose wrong in my mind but still do not know what I would have done. I thought I would lose my wife and/or my child. It made me question everything I thought I believed. At this point I was having issues with sterilization because my wife had been talking about it. I told her that it was her choice but that I would never do it to myself. I was honest about how I felt about her doing it but had no standing on the matter other than a faith that we both rejected.

This story goes on and on and on. It’s the story that never ends because of its complexity. It challenged everything I held to be true on my own. But what I realized about the Catholic Church is that in spite of how people feel about it the Church continues to stand firm on the official teachings, yet there are heretics within still trying to lure us into the snares and traps of the devil. That’s why so many Catholic actually practice the mortally sinful acts of abortion, contraception, homosexuality, etc. All of this comes from a man made distortion of God’s laws. We resist him at every term. It’s a wonder He doesn’t swoop down and destroy us.
 
I am not actually trying to change your mind - and I am not actually expecting you to try to change my mind. We can agree to disagree. I have no problem with that. The reason why I press the subject is because the Theology of the Body is a rational, phenomenological argument which was written through an understanding of Theology and Human Nature. Plus, it was composed recently enough to address many of the issues of contemporary society, which stem from the writings of Marx, Freud, and taking Darwinism too far.

You asked about an element which is addressed (the sacredness of sex), and you dismiss it for no coherent reason. You claim to understand it , yet you are not able to explain why you disagree. Disbelief in the Judeo/Christian God is a legitimate reason not to agree. But, if you believe in God, and that the Bible provides revelation into who He is, then you should be able to explain where you believe JPII went wrong in his exegesis.
look up

I am agnostic

I am highly respectful of the body and marital union

but I cannot call sex “sacred”. I consider that a neurotic position.
 
look up

I am agnostic

I am highly respectful of the body and marital union

but I cannot call sex “sacred”. I consider that a neurotic position.
And why do you support marital union, as you call it. Marriage is between a man and a woman for life by definition. A “union” by modern definition is between anything that might have a pulse and may actually have red blood cells.
 
Wouldn’t that rather depend on who you ask? It’s hardly surprising that some Catholics, brought up to think that contraception is very naughty, would feel that they had been/were being naughty.

Meanwhile, people who hadn’t had that background and had not been converted to being enthusiastic Catholics would be likely to think very differently.
The Catholic priest who married me looked my wife and me in the eye and said that he would not toe the party line on contraception. He said that it is a personal choice in the modern world. He did say, though, that if we got pregnant that we had better have the baby.
 
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