Contraception, NFP, and Converting

[jlc2k2]

You are correct there were a lot of 'I"s there, but that is because I was referring to the things that “I” can possibly do, not what “we” can possibly do.

Obviously NFP is dependent on the cooperation of both the wife and the husband, but what you and others have failed to recognize is the hurt and suffering it causes some males when they are the one’s that are asked to contracept. For some of you it seems like it is acceptable to ask the male to contracept but you better not ever ask the female to do so.

I don’t think that is acceptable but this isn’t something you can fix by yourself. You and your wife have to work together on it. You’ll also notice that I gave some advice about how you can talk to her about it. Perhaps I missed it further up the thread but how have you approached her about this in the past?

 

[1ke]

For some of you it seems like it is acceptable to ask the male to contracept but you better not ever ask the female to do so.

I am not sure what gave you this impression. It is not acceptable to ask the husband to contracept nor is it acceptable to ask the wife. It is gravely wrong for either.

 

[underacloud]

For some of you it seems like it is acceptable to ask the male to contracept but you better not ever ask the female to do so.

I’m not sure why you have that impression, other than it being driven by your understandable frustration at your circumstances.

Rest assured that Church teaching in this area is entirely gender-neutral.

In your own circumstances, it really is up to your wife whether she chooses to contracept. While you cannot encourage her to do so, it may be reasonable to point this out to her. Discussing this with a priest may help you navigate this tricky area. It may arguably be reasonable to make the choices clear to your wife:
a) you will not contracept.
b) your strong preference is that you both use NFP.
c) if she chooses to contracept against your wishes, and knowing your clear objection, you will not stop her, nor cease marital relations.

 

[agentlank]

Thank you for the suggestions and clarification.

My apologies if I came off cruel or cold hearted, my frustration with this topic and a number of others is making the road to conversion a very bumpy one. I came here to get others’ opinions and suggestions so I shouldn’t have been abrasive when they weren’t exactly what I wanted to hear.

Thank you again, I’m going to continue to tread lightly on the topic and be as graceful as I can when discussing with my wife, but continue to express that I want to uphold the teachings of the church.

 

[NormanWithers]

It may arguably be reasonable to make the choices clear to your wife:
a) you will not contracept.
b) your strong preference is that you both use NFP.
c) if she chooses to contracept against your wishes, and knowing your clear objection, you will not stop her, nor cease marital relations

And what if she neither contracepts nor learns any NFP and refuses to have sex while blaming you for the problem? That is entirely possible as many women are not so fond of sex after having desired number of children and have no real incentive to resolve this situation. That is what happened in my marriage and so far resulted in 6 months of abstinence. Is there anything that can be done according to Church teachings?

 

[1ke]

And what if she neither contracepts nor learns any NFP and refuses to have sex while blaming you for the problem? That is entirely possible as many women are not so fond of sex after having desired number of children and have no real incentive to resolve this situation. That is what happened in my marriage and so far resulted in 6 months of abstinence. Is there anything that can be done according to Church teachings?

If your spouse refuses to have relations with you, that in itself is grave matter.

But if they were concerned about grave matter then they wouldn’t be insisting on contraception and holding the marital embrace hostage.

In such a case, one would then continue to offer sacrifice and prayer on behalf of their wayward spouse.

 

[MJJean]

If your spouse refuses to have relations with you, that in itself is grave matter.

But if they were concerned about grave matter then they wouldn’t be insisting on contraception and holding the marital embrace hostage.

In such a case, one would then continue to offer sacrifice and prayer on behalf of their wayward spouse.

I think saying holding the marital embrace hostage is a bit…unfair?

We’re talking about people who either aren’t catholic or who are and do not truly believe the Church’s teachings on contraception and who do not want to risk pregnancy for whatever reasons. From their point of view their spouse is saying “We either learn NFP and follow it or we have sex and take our chances.”

Since taking the chance is not acceptable to the contraception minded spouse and neither is NFP, then the contraception minded spouse could reasonably conclude the other is holding the marital embrace hostage when a simple solution is readily available to them.

 

[underacloud]

And what if she neither contracepts nor learns any NFP and refuses to have sex while blaming you for the problem? That is entirely possible as many women are not so fond of sex after having desired number of children and have no real incentive to resolve this situation. That is what happened in my marriage and so far resulted in 6 months of abstinence. Is there anything that can be done according to Church teachings?

As both 1ke and MJJean have observed, this is a difficult situation from either spouse’s perspective.

The options I outlined are the only moral options available to the Catholic spouse. But perhaps counselling can be helpful in finding some sort of compromise between the couple, noting the paramaters that the Catholic spouse must work within.

Another thing that can be asked - not to point a finger at you, but something for us all to consider - is what else can be done in the relationship to foster a feeling of intimacy between the spouses. Intimacy and sex are closely related, and so fostering the one will usually help with the other. Perhaps focus less on the issue of sex for a while and focus on the rest of the relationship. Then, hopefully, the desire to be physically intimate again may help the other spouse want to find a way to make it work.

 

[NormanWithers]

I wonder what kind of compromise can be reached in this situation. Catholic teaching does not let me make any concessions regarding chastity so how can I reasonably expect my wife to make them? I think you are not talking about compromise but instead about ways to force her to capitulate. And frankly, no matter how much counseling and intimacy is involved, I don’t think there is a way to make 30-something woman with kids to want sex that much.

All that is very disappointing. Church does not forbid marriage with non-Catholics or lukewarm Catholics, so one could assume it gives us ways not to turn them into quarrelsome farce. Instead I am told that I should either force my wife to follow strict Catholic sexual teachings (which she finds silly) or be totally abstinent. At the same time Church praises sex to a degree unimaginable in ages past. I don’t find it fair and merciful at all.

 

[jlc2k2]

I wonder what kind of compromise can be reached in this situation. Catholic teaching does not let me make any concessions regarding chastity so how can I reasonably expect my wife to make them? I think you are not talking about compromise but instead about ways to force her to capitulate. And frankly, no matter how much counseling and intimacy is involved, I don’t think there is a way to make 30-something woman with kids to want sex that much.

All that is very disappointing. Church does not forbid marriage with non-Catholics or lukewarm Catholics, so one could assume it gives us ways not to turn them into quarrelsome farce. Instead I am told that I should either force my wife to follow strict Catholic sexual teachings (which she finds silly) or be totally abstinent. At the same time Church praises sex to a degree unimaginable in ages past. I don’t find it fair and merciful at all.

Another option is that she can find a form of birth control that doesn’t require your involvement. BC consists of more than condoms and the pill. That’s the compromise.

 

[NormanWithers]

Well, that can be considered as a compromise. However, I really don’t know which BC method could my wife use. All those that can be used by woman alone also have abortive side effect and that is why they do not fit in “contracepting spouse” exception. I cannot think of sufficiently grave reason for allowing my own children to be aborted. I also think that suggesting my wife to use abortive BC method is mortal sin in itself and betrayal of marital vows.

Having said that, do you know any BC method that does not have abortive side effect and can be used by woman alone?

 

[underacloud]

I wonder what kind of compromise can be reached in this situation. Catholic teaching does not let me make any concessions regarding chastity so how can I reasonably expect my wife to make them? I think you are not talking about compromise but instead about ways to force her to capitulate.

As jlc2k2 says, the compromise is that you “agree” (not really agree, but you don’t withhold sex) to contracepted sex, but she is responsible for the contraception.

And frankly, no matter how much counseling and intimacy is involved, I don’t think there is a way to make 30-something woman with kids to want sex that much.

Healthy 30-something women with kids will generally want some sex in their marriage. Some more than others. I certainly think counseling and a greater emphasis on general intimacy will help.

Having said that, do you know any BC method that does not have abortive side effect and can be used by woman alone?

Female condoms and diaphram are two that immediately spring to mind.

(I will also note that the Church does not make any distinction in it’s “contracepting spouse” exception regarding whether it only applies to non-abortifacient forms. But I understand your desire to avoid any potential miscarriages that may occur.)

 

[jlc2k2]

Well, that can be considered as a compromise. However, I really don’t know which BC method could my wife use. All those that can be used by woman alone also have abortive side effect and that is why they do not fit in “contracepting spouse” exception. I cannot think of sufficiently grave reason for allowing my own children to be aborted. I also think that suggesting my wife to use abortive BC method is mortal sin in itself and betrayal of marital vows.

Having said that, do you know any BC method that does not have abortive side effect and can be used by woman alone?

I should have been more clear earlier. It wouldn’t be so much suggesting she use BC as saying something along the lines of “honey, I don’t believe in using artificial contraception and I won’t be using condoms but I won’t stop you from using it.” My first thought of a non-abortificient method had been a diaphragm.

 

[agentlank]

Looks like the thread is still going strong, which is rather unfortunate really as there doesn’t appear to be a great solution to the problem.

My wife is still incredibly frustrated/mad not understanding of why I won’t continue to use the Onan method of BC, which we used for 7 years of marriage before I started learning about Catholicism.

I’d say we are both open to life as we have 4 children, but I don’t know that we want more and I know that we don’t want any right now. (4 kids under 5 is a handful)

I’ve asked my wife what her solution to this problem would be and it is simple…we go back to our previous method of BC.

I don’t know how others feel about withdrawal or Onanism, but I have heard some Catholic rationalize it as acceptable since it isn’t an abortifacient,