V
VeritasLuxMea
Guest
Mark, you are not crazy. This stuff is not easy. Spending more time making a chart than making love is creepy at times, and difficult for most. I just want you to know that you’re not crazy.
- Status
K
KellyPalmer
Guest
I would recommend reading from St Ignatius regarding desolation and consolation. The feelings you are describing right now sound very much like desolation which is not from God. Being open to life throughout a marriage is not as bad as the world would have you believe. There’s a reason we are ordered this way and it is already written on your heart. True freedom comes from living within this natural law. That doesn’t mean it can’t be a struggle for some people at some time but does the struggle lead you to freedom, clarity and abundant life, or not? The evil one would have you beleive not. But that’s a lie.
E
Evania
Guest
Making a chart isn’t all that time consuming. Sure, it takes longer than popping a pill or preparing with other means of contraception, but I wouldn’t say that it takes longer than lovemaking.
Besides, as a woman, it’s nice to know that your spouse is in tune with your body and how it works. Plus, a chart comes in handy in p(name removed by moderator)ointing feminine issues. It’s nice to have your husbands understanding in that respect.
I do agree that it’s hard, but it doesn’t need to be too difficult. I suggest that instead of attempting to learn by yourself, that it might be more helpful to go to a class. I admit that it was confusing at first, but after learning, it became second nature.
W
whm
Guest
I don’t agree with your thinking here. The implications of the Church’s teachings are that if, for whatever reason it is irresponsible for you to have more children at a certain point in time or even indefinitely, that you have to “man up” and make sacrifices for you wife and your family. Trust me that your marriage and your life are not ruined or wasted if you have to make such a sacrifice for a time or even indefinitely. Making such a sacrifice is a significant expression of love.
R
rayne89
Guest
I have been married since the age of 18. The first 4 years I was away from the church and contracepted. After we decided to have a baby I came back to church. That baby is graduating in a few weeks. I got pregnant nearly immediately have stopping the contraception. (We were trying). We have used NFP since shortly after she was born because I have a life threatening heart condition -and they said any further pregnancies would take my life. I have used NFP for 16 years. She is our only child. NFP works when you follow the rules. And we don’t chances which is how surprise NFP pregnancies happen.
J
Johanna_C
Guest
Mark, I think that you have an unrealistic idea of what NFP and marriage are actually like. Having to be celibate all the time in marriage is a very rare circumstance. NFP does work and it typically doesn’t require you to abstain for even half the time (only about 10 days per cycle). In my experience, using NFP we have the about the same amount of sex as when we aren’t using NFP, just at different intervals. I recommend the Marquette method using the Clearblue Easy Fertility Monitor. This method measures the actual hormones involved, takes out all the guess work, and eliminates the need for charting. I spend about the same amount of time on it as I do taking my vitamins, which is good because I have 5 children. I stay home with them and we live on my husband’s modest income. No new cars, but we own a house and have everything we need - It’s really not that hard.
Also, sexual morality and periodic abstinence gets much, much easier with practice. Yeah it’s a big change from the licentiousness of the porn/hook-up culture, but people usually find that it comes naturally after a while. You sound young and very new to the faith and I think that’s the main reason this is such a big issue for you. When one has grown up in a culture that encourages self indulgence in all areas, I suppose this could seem ridiculously difficult, but historically, it’s just part of being an adult.
As for having 10+ kids, most women aren’t fertile enough to pull that off unless they marry very young, and sometimes not even then. I married at 19 and did nothing to prevent pregnancy for years, and after 5 babies I’m already seeing a major decline in fertility. Breastfeeding is enough to space/limit pregnancies for many couples.
And about condoms? They have a 1 in 5 failure rate under ideal conditions. Russian roulette has better odds.
Also, sexual morality and periodic abstinence gets much, much easier with practice. Yeah it’s a big change from the licentiousness of the porn/hook-up culture, but people usually find that it comes naturally after a while. You sound young and very new to the faith and I think that’s the main reason this is such a big issue for you. When one has grown up in a culture that encourages self indulgence in all areas, I suppose this could seem ridiculously difficult, but historically, it’s just part of being an adult.
As for having 10+ kids, most women aren’t fertile enough to pull that off unless they marry very young, and sometimes not even then. I married at 19 and did nothing to prevent pregnancy for years, and after 5 babies I’m already seeing a major decline in fertility. Breastfeeding is enough to space/limit pregnancies for many couples.
And about condoms? They have a 1 in 5 failure rate under ideal conditions. Russian roulette has better odds.
B
Brando
Guest
Mark - I have a few thoughts for you, but first and most important, have you had an opportunity to look through Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West? It’s a really easy Q&A format that offers some great answers to your questions. I have an extra copy that I’d gladly send to you, if you’d like.
Beyond that, you’re putting the cart before the horse a little bit. If you START with NFP, you’re never going to get the right answer. Because sexuality doesn’t begin with NFP, it begins with sex. So you don’t start with “the Church teaching on NFP,” but rather the Church teaching on sexuality, which starts from God. Basically the Church isn’t saying “use NFP!” but rather she proposes that you should not use contraception because it’s contrary to God’s plan as evidenced by your body. There’s a lot to it, more than I can do justice in a single post, but it’s a beautiful thing that says you are better than you realize, that you are made in the image and likeness of God, given the ability to participate in His act of creation, and He wants you to enjoy it fully. If sex was purely procreative, God could easily have made it so. If it was purely pleasurable, God could have done the same. Instead He gave us the wonder of having both.
As for charting and extended abstinence, anyone going through that shouldn’t accept what’s going on easily. They should investigate other methods which might be more effective for them. NFP isn’t a single method, but rather a concept through which there are multiple methods of varying reliability and some methods work better for some couples.
Beyond that, you’re putting the cart before the horse a little bit. If you START with NFP, you’re never going to get the right answer. Because sexuality doesn’t begin with NFP, it begins with sex. So you don’t start with “the Church teaching on NFP,” but rather the Church teaching on sexuality, which starts from God. Basically the Church isn’t saying “use NFP!” but rather she proposes that you should not use contraception because it’s contrary to God’s plan as evidenced by your body. There’s a lot to it, more than I can do justice in a single post, but it’s a beautiful thing that says you are better than you realize, that you are made in the image and likeness of God, given the ability to participate in His act of creation, and He wants you to enjoy it fully. If sex was purely procreative, God could easily have made it so. If it was purely pleasurable, God could have done the same. Instead He gave us the wonder of having both.
As for charting and extended abstinence, anyone going through that shouldn’t accept what’s going on easily. They should investigate other methods which might be more effective for them. NFP isn’t a single method, but rather a concept through which there are multiple methods of varying reliability and some methods work better for some couples.
M
Mark1234
Guest
Hi everyone, thanks for your post, its really helping alot. Johanna in particular your post I found helpful.
I know its not the most realible source of information but I hopped on Wikipedia to get the following:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods
I was going to ask how the statistics here were fudged, or why they are lying, but it turns out NFP has a significantly higher efficacy than condoms even on this list (which is not religiously affliated at all). I am really surprised. Perhaps I was holding onto that as a false reassurance. So if NFP is that much more reliable than other forms of birth control, I guess I have less hesitation about it.
I can see my girlfriend/future wife however taking it a little too far though since she has irregular cycles and use it as an excuse to not be intimate, I actually think this may be an issue in the church in general. I have a feeling that my sexual drive is significantly higher than hers, does the church have any teachings about the tendency of couples in the church to become too restrictive in their approach to sexuality and how to prevent it and nourish a healthy sexual attitude that is still in agreement with God? Just from talking to other husbands in the church, they seem for the most part pretty unsatisfied with their sex life, and I want to avoid that if I am to get married in the church.
What about the fact that when women are infertile their body and their hormones in that period have a tendency to make them desire sex less strongly then when they are fertile?
I know its not the most realible source of information but I hopped on Wikipedia to get the following:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods
I was going to ask how the statistics here were fudged, or why they are lying, but it turns out NFP has a significantly higher efficacy than condoms even on this list (which is not religiously affliated at all). I am really surprised. Perhaps I was holding onto that as a false reassurance. So if NFP is that much more reliable than other forms of birth control, I guess I have less hesitation about it.
I can see my girlfriend/future wife however taking it a little too far though since she has irregular cycles and use it as an excuse to not be intimate, I actually think this may be an issue in the church in general. I have a feeling that my sexual drive is significantly higher than hers, does the church have any teachings about the tendency of couples in the church to become too restrictive in their approach to sexuality and how to prevent it and nourish a healthy sexual attitude that is still in agreement with God? Just from talking to other husbands in the church, they seem for the most part pretty unsatisfied with their sex life, and I want to avoid that if I am to get married in the church.
What about the fact that when women are infertile their body and their hormones in that period have a tendency to make them desire sex less strongly then when they are fertile?
B
Brando
Guest
If you’re afraid of your girlfriend coming up with excuses to avoid intimacy, that isn’t a problem with NFP but a problem with your relationship. I can honestly say that hasn’t happened yet in my marriage, and a good method won’t be as subject to irregular cycles.
It’s hard to say, but there are other reasons that creep into marriages that impact various sex drives: children, work, stress, and it’s not a bad thing to learn self control.
It’s hard to say, but there are other reasons that creep into marriages that impact various sex drives: children, work, stress, and it’s not a bad thing to learn self control.
M
Mark1234
Guest
Hi Brando. I’m not talking about the level of self control needed to go without sex for a while, I think I can handle that. I have gone over 2 years without any type of intimacy. I am talking about the kind of situation that someone is faced with when NFP becomes a catalyst for totally removing sex from a relationship and making the couple very unhappy in the marriage like the people are struggling with in this post:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=587900
Also I think its a little rude to assume that I don’t have self control just because I am concerned about a future ‘sexless’ marriage or mostly sexless marriage. I think by any definition, even a catholic one, this would pose a problem for a marriage.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=587900
Also I think its a little rude to assume that I don’t have self control just because I am concerned about a future ‘sexless’ marriage or mostly sexless marriage. I think by any definition, even a catholic one, this would pose a problem for a marriage.
B
Brando
Guest
I apologize if it seemed like I was making an assumption, I was merely commenting that self control that is a part of NFP is a good thing.
L
lifeisbeautiful
Guest
I wanted to add something… no couple HAS to use NFP to avoid (or TTC). It is there if you need it. And when you need it, and use it, you are trusting in God as well. There is nothing wrong or superstitious about leaving the numbertiming of children you have in God’s hands without trying to plan when you will have your babies. In fact, unless you have prayerfully discerned a serious/just/unselfish/grave reason to avoid, you shouldn’t be using NFP to avoid! Receiving babies is the natural, healthy thing in marriage! God made women more interested during the fertile period, and made sex enjoyable, to encourage this aspect of a healthy married life! NFP (to avoid) is there to help us out during times that we need to avoid. It isn’t there because it is the default way all marriages should live, charting and avoiding children. Maybe your girlfriend (correctly) finds it morally unsound to use it like society often uses abc, to achieve the number of children you want without taking God’s will into consideration? This is very different from using the beautiful gift of this knowledge of God’s amazing design in fertility to continue participating in an important aspect of marital life, sex, even though at the moment you have prayerfully discerned you have good, unselfish reasons to avoid.
Contraception is a whole other subject, though. It is truly thwarting the act itself. It isn’t a rescue boat, it is more a dinghy with a hole in it.
Contraception is a whole other subject, though. It is truly thwarting the act itself. It isn’t a rescue boat, it is more a dinghy with a hole in it.
J
Johanna_C
Guest
The Church teaches that sex is good and desirable for married couples. I still remember during our marriage prep, our priest told us, “Whenever a married couple has sex they raise their place in heaven.” A lot of people focus on the negative aspects of church teachings on sex at the expense of seeing that there are also very positive teachings.
I think the bigger issue here is why (you think) your girlfriend would want to make an excuse to avoid being intimate. Some men have an entitled attitude about sexual pleasure, but the opposite fault in women is to expect romance to be like the movies and feel like they shouldn’t have to have sex unless they’re emotionally seduced every time.
In a healthy Catholic marriage the wife will be willing even if she’s not particularly in the mood (or at least be willing to let her husband put her in the mood) and the husband will be willing to let a back rub be a back rub sometimes. NFP can stress marriages, I have herd the stories and struggled to adapt myself, but I have also seen it strengthen marriages, and I don’t believe that NFP by itself can lead to a sexless or nearly sexless marriage. If your marriage is already stretched thin I could certainly see NFP being the thing that drives you over the edge, but that wouldn’t be just NFP. Having a healthy, robust sex life requires work, and is a reflection of your whole relationship with your spouse, and I think that the mistake some spouses make is expecting sex to be there and be good weather they communicate about it and make an effort or not.
It’s true that wives are frequently less amorous when they aren’t fertile, but if you are doing it right, they will still find it pleasant.
I think that the best you can do is to recognize the things that can interfere with intimacy in marriage and try to prevent them happening in your potential marriage. Some women lose their libido because they feel objectified or used, or because they don’t get enough affection outside of sex. Sometimes one or both spouses have too much going on in their lives - some of the people in the “Church teachings on sex” thread mentioned demanding schedules and travel for work. Some people just don’t spend enough attention on their marriages, or put too many other priorities first. In my experience, mothers who don’t also have jobs outside the home tend to have more energy in the bedroom. Some spouses are disappointed sexually because they have unhealthy and unrealistic expectations shaped (sometimes even unconsciously) by the culture of pornography. This can even be the case with people who don’t look at porn or haven’t in years. Sometimes people have preexisting issues from abuse, troubled childhoods or former relationships.
Ultimately, if you think that your girlfriend’s ideal marriage and your ideal marriage are too dissimilar, she may not be the girl for you. That’s not a condemnation of her either; half of being happy in marriage is setting yourself up for success, and dating is all about figuring out what that is.
M
MerryHeart
Guest
My husband and I are expecting our fifth baby. We wanted to have four kids. God had other plans. This was an NFP fail and I freaked out. I have to have c-sections and have probably ten years of fertility left. But we praised God publicly for this new blessing and immediately saw God’s hand in providing. My husband got an unexpected generous raise and then aced an audit which upped his monthly bonus. He never gives more than He will provide for.
Z
zz912
Guest
First, people complain just to complain a lot of times. Wives complain about husbands, husbands compain about wives, parents complain about kids, workers complain about bosses.
People will always complain about what they DON’T have, or how someone else is NOT perfect.
Watch the movie “It’s a Wonderful Life”. You can see the theme running through the movie. Not appreciating what we have, until it is gone. Those same guys who are complaining, if given a “get-out-of-jail-free” card, would choose to stay with their wives and their families. They are just grumbling.
Another thing to notice, there are many men who may be complaining about their sex lives because their wives are on birth control. The pill seriously depresses the sex drive for women. How many families have been harmed or destroyed because the couple, wanting to prevent a child from “wrecking” their marriage, have destroyed their marriage from using the pill?
S
searching04
Guest
Mark1234,
I have not been in any forum for a very long time, but still get the e-mails to threads. This is one. I will also probably have a lengthy response and will hit a variety of points as I try to remember all of the responses posted. I will forewarn that I am straight out honest and flat out disagree with church teaching because it makes no sense. Here goes.
First of all, you are not alone in the struggle of trying to figure out and comprehend church teachings on sex. Bottom line: the church isn’t changing, so there you go. You have to decide it it is for you, new Catholic or not. The only answer is to follow it or you supposedly go to hell.
Bottom line up front for why I believe and feel like I do: the only thing as far as the physical part of sex goes - the one and only thing - that the church dictates is where the man must climax. That’s it. (The obvious things not to do would be don’t abuse your spouse or force them to do things they wish not to do.) The church says, and everyone’s interpretation here, that to do otherwise is a sin. The church uses words such as “depraved” and “grave” and “intrinsically evil” if a couple allows the man to climax outside of intercourse. (Yes, folks, summarized and paraphrased, so spare me the quotes from all the books). The church mandates that couples must use NFP if they wish to avoid having children or lessen the chances, or have no sex at all. The church says that all sex must be both unitive and procreative. So, in the end, sex is strictly for having children.
The problem I have with that is that God gave me my wife; yet because of church restrictions, I am extremely limited - and have been for years - in when I can be intimate with my God-given wife. We have not been in a position to afford more children (we have four, the youngest being 17). So NFP has been the only answer. It has taken a terrible toll on our marriage and overall intimacy, made worse because my wife and I disagree on the teachings. We follow it, because I don’t have a choice. But somehow I am supposed to believe and accept that God gives me my wife, but says, “oh, by the way, no sex intimacy unless you want kids”, no matter the impact on your marriage. I don’t believe it.
I’ve read the responses about NFP and contraception. Sorry folks, the majority of Catholics use NFP to avoid having kids, not just to plan them out. It is nothing less than word games or splitting hairs to get into the whole mindset of how you use NFP - sinful one way, not sinful the other. Couples are not laying in bed or wherever having sex with that running through their heads.
Which gets into why I honestly feel and believe - because nothing else makes sense - why the church mandates NFP: because to allow sex outside of intercourse would be to condone contraception, and it isn’t going to do that.
So, the church mandates NFP only and tells us that we are committing grave sin if we do otherwise. It scares Catholics into having more babies. Cynical? Nope. Call it Catholic guilt. Put it all together - sex is only for having kids.
OK, there was a response that God will take care of all your needs. Got it, believe it. However, I do not for one second believe that God expects couples to not use their heads that He gave them. The response I read is no different than saying, “have at it to have kids; God will take care of all of it”. The analogy Mark 1234 used is pretty dead on in that respect. Again, it goes back to I do not for one second believe that God gave me my spouse, but says “no sex unless you want kids”. Lots of them. I find it easier to believe in Jesus as the Son of God and in His Presence in the Eucharist than I do to believe what the church says about sex.
Last part, and maybe the hardest for others to believe and accept. Following the church’s teachings on sex can and does have an incredible negative impact on a marriage. I’m living proof, and I know of people who have left these forums and the church because of the impact. Because it is not about sex; it is very much about a lack of sexual intimacy. Limited sexual contact with the spouse God gave me. All because semen may or may not land in the right spot? From what I’ve read and found, there were many bishops/cardinals who disagreed with the Pope on the decisions on contraception; it is just that the Pope made the final call. So even in the leadership of the church, there is disagreement and dissent on this subject.
Should a couple abuse the God-given gift of sex? no. Should a couple be able to decide and have non-intercourse sex if they decide through prayer that they may not be ready or able to care for children? Yes. But the church doesn’t allow it.
Can non-intercourse sex be unitive (sorry on spelling or the wrong word) and selfless? Absolutely, it can be and is very much so. How and why? Because one spouse is totally giving of their body and love to the other to give them as much pleasure out of love as they can. It is both physically and spiritually intimate.
Enough rambling. I’m only one person who has and continues to struggle and live something in which I do not believe. So, Mark1234, you and your girlfriend have to decide for yourselves whether you can live and follow what the church says. Or pray and be at peace with yourselves and your actions as Catholics if you choose to do other than what the church says.
Good luck, God bless
I have not been in any forum for a very long time, but still get the e-mails to threads. This is one. I will also probably have a lengthy response and will hit a variety of points as I try to remember all of the responses posted. I will forewarn that I am straight out honest and flat out disagree with church teaching because it makes no sense. Here goes.
First of all, you are not alone in the struggle of trying to figure out and comprehend church teachings on sex. Bottom line: the church isn’t changing, so there you go. You have to decide it it is for you, new Catholic or not. The only answer is to follow it or you supposedly go to hell.
Bottom line up front for why I believe and feel like I do: the only thing as far as the physical part of sex goes - the one and only thing - that the church dictates is where the man must climax. That’s it. (The obvious things not to do would be don’t abuse your spouse or force them to do things they wish not to do.) The church says, and everyone’s interpretation here, that to do otherwise is a sin. The church uses words such as “depraved” and “grave” and “intrinsically evil” if a couple allows the man to climax outside of intercourse. (Yes, folks, summarized and paraphrased, so spare me the quotes from all the books). The church mandates that couples must use NFP if they wish to avoid having children or lessen the chances, or have no sex at all. The church says that all sex must be both unitive and procreative. So, in the end, sex is strictly for having children.
The problem I have with that is that God gave me my wife; yet because of church restrictions, I am extremely limited - and have been for years - in when I can be intimate with my God-given wife. We have not been in a position to afford more children (we have four, the youngest being 17). So NFP has been the only answer. It has taken a terrible toll on our marriage and overall intimacy, made worse because my wife and I disagree on the teachings. We follow it, because I don’t have a choice. But somehow I am supposed to believe and accept that God gives me my wife, but says, “oh, by the way, no sex intimacy unless you want kids”, no matter the impact on your marriage. I don’t believe it.
I’ve read the responses about NFP and contraception. Sorry folks, the majority of Catholics use NFP to avoid having kids, not just to plan them out. It is nothing less than word games or splitting hairs to get into the whole mindset of how you use NFP - sinful one way, not sinful the other. Couples are not laying in bed or wherever having sex with that running through their heads.
Which gets into why I honestly feel and believe - because nothing else makes sense - why the church mandates NFP: because to allow sex outside of intercourse would be to condone contraception, and it isn’t going to do that.
So, the church mandates NFP only and tells us that we are committing grave sin if we do otherwise. It scares Catholics into having more babies. Cynical? Nope. Call it Catholic guilt. Put it all together - sex is only for having kids.
OK, there was a response that God will take care of all your needs. Got it, believe it. However, I do not for one second believe that God expects couples to not use their heads that He gave them. The response I read is no different than saying, “have at it to have kids; God will take care of all of it”. The analogy Mark 1234 used is pretty dead on in that respect. Again, it goes back to I do not for one second believe that God gave me my spouse, but says “no sex unless you want kids”. Lots of them. I find it easier to believe in Jesus as the Son of God and in His Presence in the Eucharist than I do to believe what the church says about sex.
Last part, and maybe the hardest for others to believe and accept. Following the church’s teachings on sex can and does have an incredible negative impact on a marriage. I’m living proof, and I know of people who have left these forums and the church because of the impact. Because it is not about sex; it is very much about a lack of sexual intimacy. Limited sexual contact with the spouse God gave me. All because semen may or may not land in the right spot? From what I’ve read and found, there were many bishops/cardinals who disagreed with the Pope on the decisions on contraception; it is just that the Pope made the final call. So even in the leadership of the church, there is disagreement and dissent on this subject.
Should a couple abuse the God-given gift of sex? no. Should a couple be able to decide and have non-intercourse sex if they decide through prayer that they may not be ready or able to care for children? Yes. But the church doesn’t allow it.
Can non-intercourse sex be unitive (sorry on spelling or the wrong word) and selfless? Absolutely, it can be and is very much so. How and why? Because one spouse is totally giving of their body and love to the other to give them as much pleasure out of love as they can. It is both physically and spiritually intimate.
Enough rambling. I’m only one person who has and continues to struggle and live something in which I do not believe. So, Mark1234, you and your girlfriend have to decide for yourselves whether you can live and follow what the church says. Or pray and be at peace with yourselves and your actions as Catholics if you choose to do other than what the church says.
Good luck, God bless
S
searching04
Guest
Sorry, but this is one of the problems - the church absolutely says we have to use NFP or not have sex. The whole thing about having to have grave reasons to use NFP is the same thing as telling couples that if you want to have sex, you have to want to have kids. Because without a grave reason, you are supposed to have sex, so you have to want to have kids… it all goes together; there is no separating that.
Do I deny that God made a wonderful design in a woman and fertility? Nope. It is very much a stretch to say that God did that so couples can only have sex if they want kids.
A
ahs
Guest
…or that we can enjoy the marital embrace in the manner God prepared it for us whenever we, as a couple, desire to do so.
Not quite. It’s like telling a couple that if they choose to have sex, they should complete it in the natural manner, regardless of whether they want kids…because doing it any other way is contrary to purpose of the gift of sex that God gave us. We are not required to have sex at any given time, not are we required to “want” [the feeling as opposed to the ordering of the will] children at any given time. It’s only that, if we choose to have sex, we must order our marital embrace to its two-fold purpose…because that’s how God designed it.
Who says we can only have sex if we “want” kids? That is not a good representation. More properly, it is…“we can only have sex [licitly] if we properly order that act to the 2-fold purpose that God created it for…because that’s how God made it…and we should not try to thwart God’s perfect gift.”
G
gardenswithkids
Guest
Your wife sounds like an amazing woman.
Your post made me think of something a Catholic speaker once said (with humor intended.) It went something like, “The purpose of marriage is for spouses to drag each other to heaven, kicking and screaming.” When one spouse disagrees with using NFP, the other one has a more difficult task trying to drag the other one to heaven. You’re wife sounds very strong and you sound like you love her very much to do something you can’t understand, (or rather not do some things you’d like to do with her sometimes.) As your youngest is now 17, your wife’s fertility may be coming to an end soon. Keep up the good work, out of love for her, even if you don’t understand the why. One day you’ll learn and understand, but your full understanding might not come until you’ve both successfully dragged each other to heaven.
A
Aaron780
Guest
You have to decide it it is for you, new Catholic or not. The only answer is to follow it or you supposedly go to hell.
This is what I have a big problem with, I dont care what anyone has done, to say these things are cruel, I wouldnt wish Hell on anyone, and to say this is judging, only God will judge, not us, IMO Its not our place or the churches to be saying things like this, Because at the end of the day we simply dont know which people are going to hell or not, My mother had a near death experience, she was dead for 3 mins on the operating table, Now shes not Catholic, and she not religious, and did many sins in her life, This experience she had changed her life, she said it was so beautiful and out of this world, human words just cannot describe, She said the feeling of love was like nothing on earth, It was a feeling that she was finally returning home, She talks the most about the light she saw, it was so bright and stunning that if you had eyes it would blind you, this light was pure love, but nothing like the love felt on earth, something much much more, She didnt want to come back.
Anyway all im trying to say is, God is the only one who knows where we finally end up, To say your going to hell if you dont do this or you dont do that is just wrong…again IMO
This is what I have a big problem with, I dont care what anyone has done, to say these things are cruel, I wouldnt wish Hell on anyone, and to say this is judging, only God will judge, not us, IMO Its not our place or the churches to be saying things like this, Because at the end of the day we simply dont know which people are going to hell or not, My mother had a near death experience, she was dead for 3 mins on the operating table, Now shes not Catholic, and she not religious, and did many sins in her life, This experience she had changed her life, she said it was so beautiful and out of this world, human words just cannot describe, She said the feeling of love was like nothing on earth, It was a feeling that she was finally returning home, She talks the most about the light she saw, it was so bright and stunning that if you had eyes it would blind you, this light was pure love, but nothing like the love felt on earth, something much much more, She didnt want to come back.
Anyway all im trying to say is, God is the only one who knows where we finally end up, To say your going to hell if you dont do this or you dont do that is just wrong…again IMO
- Status