Contraception, nfp and free will

[Johanna_C]

**

Anyway all im trying to say is, God is the only one who knows where we finally end up, To say your going to hell if you dont do this or you dont do that is just wrong…again IMO**

Actually the Church never teaches that a particular person has or is going to hell. What the Catholic Church does is judge the morality of actions. There are right actions and wrong actions and distinguishing between them is good and necessary (it’s what the entire legal system is based on).

The “judge not, lest you be judged.” refers to judging the state of another person’s soul and their intentions, which you are correct in saying is only God’s prerogative. However, every person is required to distinguish right and wrong actions and the church is God’s help to mankind in that regard.

 

[Mark1234]

I’m sorry everyone, I appreciate your help, but I just don’t think I can go on like this. Last week my girlfriend snuggled with me. It was the first physical contact I had with her in over a month. I can’t take this type of relationship anymore. I know part of it is her taking things too far but her justification is always chastity, and nothing I can say can change it because her position is the morally defensible one.

I’ve decided I can’t be catholic anymore, I can’t take a relationship with such little physical contact, I am going to have to pursue a secular relationship now and leave the church.

Thanks for your help everyone.

 

[KellyPalmer]

legatusmagazine.org/sex-the-worlds-obsession/

 

[spunjalebi]

I’m sorry everyone, I appreciate your help, but I just don’t think I can go on like this. Last week my girlfriend snuggled with me. It was the first physical contact I had with her in over a month. I can’t take this type of relationship anymore. I know part of it is her taking things too far but her justification is always chastity, and nothing I can say can change it because her position is the morally defensible one.

I’ve decided I can’t be catholic anymore, I can’t take a relationship with such little physical contact, I am going to have to pursue a secular relationship now and leave the church.

Thanks for your help everyone.

I’m trying to understand what’s going on here. You had questions about chastity and NFP, okay. But now because you had some physical affection, you’re going to leave the Church? You can’t cuddle because it’s too difficult with chastity? You do realize that light kissing, holding hands, cuddling, and hugging are all forms of physical contact which can be chaste, right?

 

[John_F_Kippley]

I think your situation is too complex to be settled by a few online comments. I strongly suggest that you would do yourself a great favor by talking with a knowledgeable priest. The liturgical readings for today are instructive. Using some graphic imagery, the Lord Jesus tells us that if something is an occasion of sin for us, we need to avoid it. So you need to get clear about what is sinful and what is permitted. You also need to clarify your relationship with your girlfriend. Is this relationship helping both her and you on the path to heaven, as every personal relationship really should do? Do you want to marry her or just enjoy her company for some months or years but without any intention of marriage? If it’s just for the fun of it, is it fair to take a girl our of the marriageable pool once you know you do not want to marry her? Leaving the Catholic Church solves nothing. Living a full Catholic life is a challenge, but what can we expect from Him who has told us that if we want to be his disciples we need to take up our cross daily? Secularism today idolizes sex, and that’s not a path you want to follow.

 

[Mark1234]

I don’t want to idolize it, I just want to have it! Is that an unreasonable thing to expect from a marriage? From seeing people’s comments on this thread and many other threads, catholic marriages seem to be 80%-100% abstinent due to the restrictions imposed by the absolute necessity of the procreative aspect of sex being pitted against the strain of having too many children.

 

[Mark1234]

Let me ask then, I think its possible to go too far before you are married, but I also think it is possible to take chastity too far (and turn it into some type of idol). However, if one were to take chastity too far then that is a morally defensible position according to the church, but the alternative is not (it is sinful).

How do I convince my girlfriend that turning chastity into an idol (i.e. very little hand holding, or even kissing, no cuddling or physical contact) is wrong and harmful to a relationship?

 

[KellyPalmer]

You have to stop making up all these desolations based on limited exposures to internet posts that you’ve formed biased opinions from. What in the world?! Catholic marriage is full of sex. I’ve been married 13 years and we’ve never once had to do any intentional abstinence. We’ve had some abstinence but because of things like deployments (military). We “only” have 3 kids but are hoping for more. Love gives life. That’s why we have Jesus. God loved us so much that he gave his only son. You can’t change life. God is the author and he created a world where love creates life. You want love without life but that’s impossible. Rejecting Catholicism won’t make that possible. All happiness comes from God. Separating yourself from him is NOT going to make you happy. Wanting love without life almost sounds like wanting God without Jesus. But the Bible tells us that no one can get to the father without the son. Try reading from St Ignatius about consolation and desolation. Clearly what you are experiencing here is desolation. That means you are having false thoughts and all lies come from the evil one. All truth comes from God! You have the power, by the grace of God, to reject these evil thoughts that are plaguing you!

 

[Evania]

Mark, in all due respect your assessment of Catholic marriages being 80%-100% abstinent doesn’t apply to mine or to a lot of the comments of other marriages I’ve read on here. Maybe I’m reading them differently…

Why would you need to explain to your girlfriend that turning chastity into an idol ( kissing, hand holding, no cuddling is wrong and harmful to a relationship when that’s not true? The Church has never said that so I guess I’m puzzled by that statement. In fact, many people who practice NFP have said the opposite. Like others, I’m seeking to understand the issue more clearly so please do not take offense because none is intended: When you said you wanted to pursue a more secular relationship, do you mean indulge in pre-marital sex or on demand when married? I don’t want to assume you mean something if you don’t, so please explain.

 

[thewanderer]

I don’t want to idolize it, I just want to have it! Is that an unreasonable thing to expect from a marriage? From seeing people’s comments on this thread and many other threads, catholic marriages seem to be 80%-100% abstinent due to the restrictions imposed by the absolute necessity of the procreative aspect of sex being pitted against the strain of having too many children.

I would be very very hesitant to draw any universal conclusions about Catholics sex lives from a few comments on threads on CAF. For one thing, people hardly ever start a thread to say “Hey guys, I’m Catholic and my sex life is GREAT” They start threads when they are having problems and issues they are trying to overcome and they are looking for help. Then, when someone starts a thread looking for help other people are hardly going to come on responding, “sorry you’re dealing with this, and by the way, my sex life is GREAT” Instead they will just show sympathy and give advice. The only reason they would bring up their own sex life is if they are currently dealing with the same problem or have dealt with it in the past for the sake of showing sympathy or giving advice on what worked for them to overcome it.

Is it possible that if you get married you will be faced with a period of time where you will need to practice large bouts of abstinance? Yes, of course it is possible. Is it a foregone conclusion that this will be the case? Not at all.

 

[thewanderer]

Let me ask then, I think its possible to go too far before you are married, but I also think it is possible to take chastity too far (and turn it into some type of idol). However, if one were to take chastity too far then that is a morally defensible position according to the church, but the alternative is not (it is sinful).

How do I convince my girlfriend that turning chastity into an idol (i.e. very little hand holding, or even kissing, no cuddling or physical contact) is wrong and harmful to a relationship?

Because it damages the emotional intimacy between the couple which is an extremely important part of a relationship.

Honestly, it sounds to me as though your fears about Catholic marriages are coming in large part because of your current girlfriend. You see her attitude now as being stricter than necessary with respect to physical signs of affection and that makes you worried that if you marry her she will continue to be stricter than necessary with it. You need to have a very frank and open discussion about this with her. If you two are not a good fit because of your differing view or you just don’t feel as though you can trust her in this aspect of the relationship then perhaps you should really think hard about where your relationship is heading. If there are problems now they will not get better by getting married, they will likely just be magnified because of the stresses that married life brings.