Contraception Questions for a Newly Converted Catholic

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Since I do know the churches teaching to determine it as a grave sin which becomes a mortal sin is the same thing. No Biblical backing only he Church tells us so it is now a grave sin and now since you know a morta sin.

So sex between couples is only for the creation of life? Do you have anything that would back this?

Post regarding your last statement:
It won’t let me post links’s unfortunately
 
tdakers said:
I did take the course when I was not a catholic for our marriage
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What do you mean by “the course”? You were trained in a method of NFP? Which method?
tdakers said:
most of the people in the class just thought it was an outdated joke.
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This is tragic.
tdakers said:
Seems like a stretch to make it a mortal sin when NFP is acceptable which is the exact same as Birth Control without a bill
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God designed our bodies, as women, to be fertile during a small window for a few years. He designed signs so we would know when that time happens. He gave us minds and reasons to decide when we are ready to welcome a child.

Using information to abstain when one is not ready to welcome a child is nothing at all like a device or medication that makes null the marital act.
 
Medication to heal is one thing.

Contraceptive medications, surgeries, devices, make a healthy body behave as if it is mutilated/diseased. Fertility is not a disease, it is a gift.
 
tdakers said:
outdated joke. I would say even now most people I talk to view it as an outdated
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The Church’s teachings on faith and morals do not become “outdated”. This is a fallacy of post modernism.

Contraception is not even a modern concept. There have been condoms and “pulling out” since people have been having sex. It was wrong and sinful then and is wrong and sinful now regardless of the date.

For “modern” contraceptives like the various birth control pills and plan b pills, many of these are actually aborticides.

I really hope you soften your heart on this subject and fulfill the requirement of your vocation of marriage.
 
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tdakers said:
Neither does the pill it makes it harder for the sperm to reach the eggs due to the increase in mucas, additionally using cortus interuptis there is no life to begin with. Again it seems like splitting hairs that some drugs are fine and other aren’t. I would not argue for things such as the morning after pill, but to prevent pregnancy to begin with.
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There’s a fundamental difference between medicine and contraception. The point of medicine, properly understood, is to restore a person’s body to proper functioning. Being sick is the body failing to function properly, and medicine tries to get the body to function properly.

Contraception is the opposite of medicine, as it takes a functioning body and obstructs its proper function. In this sense, it’s like voluntarily having your arm amputated with no medical reason. It is a deliberate refusal of the gifts God gives to us in our body.
 
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Thank you everyone for the thoughts and explanations. I think I have more than enough to come to terms with the Church’s teaching. I will say that I’ll do what the Church commands but stand by my questions. Thank you to those who provided some research material or study options on the subject. For those who were much more hostile I would recommend reevaluating your technique. Iron sharpens iron and if someone has a question attacking them probably isn’t the best way to answer their questions. If you do not feel like you were hostil then great. I hope everyone remembers we are all on the same team here and ripping someone down for questions just because they are difficult is probably not the answer. Additionally, do not forget that the majority of Catholics in America think the same way I do, so while I don’t represent the more than a couple of people are thinking the same things. I decided on my own turns to trust the church based on my own faith. Others might not and based on the majority of comments from this post I would have been pushed farther away from the church than closer. Just food for thought. Says I’m out of comments for the day so you can keep commenting but I won’t be able to respond until tomorrow. Peace.
 
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nightshade said:
When you take communion you are not only consuming the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, but you are affirming you accept all teachings of our Holy Church including the teachings that all contraceptions are morally wrong and sinful.
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Considering the reports all over the place that a huge number of Roman Catholics do not accept the teaching on artificial birth control, I don’t see how this could possibly be true.
 
AlNg said:
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nightshade:
When you take communion you are not only consuming the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, but you are affirming you accept all teachings of our Holy Church including the teachings that all contraceptions are morally wrong and sinful.
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Considering the reports all over the place that a huge number of Roman Catholics do not accept the teaching on artificial birth control, I don’t see how this could possibly be true.
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This is the Church’s view on it, and it’s part of the reason that Protestants are not allowed to receive; by receiving while openly rejecting Church teaching, they commit sacrilege.
 
Unfortunately you are mistaken. Hormonal birth control acts as an abortifacient in the event that the two other biological mechanics it uses to prevent pregnancy fail.

From the American Association of Pro-life Obstetricians and Gynecologists…
Hormonal birth control works in 3 ways
  1. inhibition of ovulation, 2. inhibition of sperm transport, and 3. production of a “hostile endometrium”, which presumably prevents or disrupts implantation of the developing baby if the first two mechanisms fail.
If an egg was to be fertilized, the hostile environment would cause an abortion after conception instead of implantation.

I know your post was not about hormonal brith control. The method you specifically asked about, by finishing the marital act outside of your wife, you are essentially treating her like masturbation tool as there is nothing unative or procreative about the act when you deliberately complete it outside of your wife.

I’m very sorry you are struggling with this aspect of the church’s teaching. My husband and I also had our doubts about this in the beginning of our marriage. NFP at times can be difficult, but our marriage has grown stronger through those trials and as we have both grown closer to God by doing his will and not our own.

I will pray for you and your wife tonight.
 
ZemD said:
The method you specifically asked about, by finishing the marital act outside of your wife, you are essentially treating her like masturbation tool as there is nothing unative or procreative about the act when you deliberately complete it outside of your wife.
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Maybe you should say: “mutual masturbation tool”. Maybe you should realize that concentrating on your party’s pleasure is an excellent way to make your act more “unitive”. After all a “simulgasm” is quite rare (though it is wonderful when it happens) so sometimes you “come” first, and other times your partner does. Nothing wrong with it, is there? It is best when you (both) concentrate on the pleasure of the of the other one. It is as selfless as it can get.
 
I stand by what I said.

God intended for the maritial act to be ordered toward procreation. The unitive aspect of the act is another gift from him.

While pleasure may make us feel good, it doesn’t always mean it is good. Causing pleasure in your spouse is not “as selfless as it gets.” Helping your spouse get to heaven by helping her grow closer to God is. Masturbation, whether mutual or otherwise, is not what he intended for us.

I don’t have any deisre to engage in further dialogue about this. The OP is a Catholic stuggling with a teaching of the church and my intention was to give him some things to think about to reconsider his position. And I’ve already done that.

I hope you have a good evening.
 
ZemD said:
Helping your spouse get to heaven by helping her grow closer to God is.
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I do not argue with this. But we cannot earn our way to heaven no matter how we behave. As long as we are able to get some “secondary” pleasure, we are in good shape. 🙂 We don’t have to engage in a dialog. You gave your advise and I gave mine. We don’t need to agree to respect each other.

I wish the best for you, too.
 
TheLittleLady said:
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tdakers:
most of the people in the class just thought it was an outdated joke.
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This is tragic.
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Then, that means that the leaders of the class did a poor job in explaining to “most of the people in the class” that what they were talking about wasn’t “The Rhythm Method”, but rather, a scientific approach to understanding a woman’s body and the actual times in her monthly cycle when she’s fertile.

And yes… that’s tragic, if they failed in that one-and-only time that they had the attention of soon-to-be spouses, to explain what the Church means and why NFP is both reliable and acceptable.
tdakers said:
Additionally, do not forget that the majority of Catholics in America think the same way I do
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Yep, that’s 100% true! (What it seems to imply, to me, is that the majority of Catholics in America have either never learned the breadth and depth of the teaching of the Church, or that they’ve found a more compelling narrative in the teaching of the culture.)
AlNg said:
Considering the reports all over the place that a huge number of Roman Catholics do not accept the teaching on artificial birth control, I don’t see how this could possibly be true.
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The implication is that they’re committing the sin of “bearing false witness” by taking communion while rejecting the teachings of the Church.
Economist said:
But we cannot earn our way to heaven no matter how we behave.
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Hmm… you might want to re-read Matthew 25, from verse 31 and on. Jesus is saying that the standard for entry into heaven really is “how we behaved on earth”, (having believed in Him, of course).
 
Gorgias said:
Hmm… you might want to re-read Matthew 25, from verse 31 and on. Jesus is saying that the standard for entry into heaven really is “how we behaved on earth”, (having believed in Him, of course).
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Isn’t “quote mining” wonderful?
 
These discussions never end well on CAF. I don’t think anybody learns from them. Usually what they amount to are people looking for loopholes to indulge in sexual activities incompatible with the Church’s teachings. I’m not saying this is the intent of the OP, but I think we’ve all seen enough of these threads to realize this by now.

A simple rule of thumb is to imagine what the Blessed Mother’s answers would be to your questions. And if you would be too embarrassed to ask her, then what you want to do is not allowed.
 
For the OP, I would suggest two books:

The Sinner’s Guide to Natural Family Planning by Fischer

Green Sex by Evert
 
Consider food and weight loss. You can lose weight by fasting or by diet and exercise, or you can lose weight by intentionally vomiting after eating or sating your appetite with things that are not food. We praise the former two as acts of self-discipline, while considering the latter two eating disorders (respectively, bulimia and anorexia). Besides these, weight loss can be the result of an illness, such as an infection or cancer, which is morally neutral. So it is with sex and reproduction: You can licitly avoid reproduction by abstaining from sex or because a natural condition renders you or your spouse infertile, but you are forbidden from indulging in acts that subvert reproduction by intentionally ejaculating outside the vagina or using chemicals to suppress or destroy the gametes.
 
Gorgias said:
Isn’t following the words of Jesus in Scripture even more wonderful?
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If only the actual words of Jesus would be available for us. Of course my point was that with careful quote-mining you can bring up supporting verses for any act.
 
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