Contraception = Small families = More Selfish Individuals

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While pondering the the increasing intensity, polarization and grotesqueness of current political climate this afternoon, I got a call from a friend. After we got off the phone I began thinking about her children and her family in general. She has 7 children from 5 to the early 20s. They are a remarkably harmonious family with deep commitment to their Catholic faith as well as a sense of community. She has two children in military service. Now they do not always get along, but they always seek to work it out peacefully.

I got to thinking how nice it would be if the current political fighting were not so selfish and unable to see the point of view of others. How nice if would be if people would debate and discuss the way my friend’s family does. I thought about my own family, I am one of six, and we all had to learn early on how to get along with people we do not agree with.

Then this thought hit me and I quickly came with this this hypothesis. I have no idea if it is a contributing factor, but bear with me as I explain. Then poke holes, or plug holes, as you see fit.

The dynamic of large families is very different than that of small ones. Particularly if there are three or more generations living under one roof. This was how most families were in years past. 3 to 6 children were typical. This was especially true in rural areas where the need for labor was good and child mortality was high. Anyway, the children growing up in these households were generally not exposed to much outside their village or town. They had to learn early on to get along with their siblings, deal with the town bully and co-exist with people whom they disagreed with or even despised. The kind of behavior we see in public today would destroy these small communities.

Contrast that with today. Most families have only one or two children. For many, their first babysitter is the TV. Children who have few or no siblings do not really learn the concept of sharing as deeply as those in large families do. In short the children tend to be spoiled. As their parents were raised in similar environment, no one sees the problem. They do not have the ability to practice civility since there are fewer people in their immediate (household) surroundings. Because of the fast paced and very mobile society, people are often not forced by circumstances to spend years, or even decades, with those they disagree or despise.

From this, the next generations decides that it should now be a criminal offense to “bully” someone (This is the case in Oregon. What constitutes bully is not defined and is completely subjective.) And this same dysfunctional generation comes up with silly ideas like not keeping score at little league games, and that it is more important to teach self-esteem than the three R’s.

So today we have a society that has diverged. We have people that grew up in large families in a more historically tradition manner and we have people who grew up in this isolated and over-stimulated modern environment. These two groups can barely communicate with each other. They disagree on fundamental issues.

The modern group tend to lack the patience because they are so used to the instant gratification they have been conditioned for by TV, DVD, video games, computers, the Internet, Cable TVs DVRs, iPods, cell phones, etc. The more traditional people tend to use these to a lesser degree but even then they have to balance their use, e.g. the family video game has to be shared by 4 or more people, not just one or two. Thus their sense of patience has not been as impaired as the modern group.

In additoin, because larger families tend to also have a greater diversity of opinion within the household, thus giving family member more practice at dealing with differences and friction. The modern group does not get this practice as often as there simply because their are fewer people and, therefore, generally less divergence of opinion.

As a result, the members modern group tends to, often without realizing they are doing it, belittle members of the more traditional group. Generally, the traditional group takes it on the chin because they have learned to do that. HOWEVER, on the occassions whan a member of the more traditional group says something that is percieved as not favorable, the members of the more modern group, because they have not learned to take it on the chin, over-react. Still the the more traditional returns toi default position of patience.

As this escalates, eventually the members of the more modern group begin to believe that the more tradiitonal group does not really exist and are mystified when people disagree with them. This final insult is profoundly infuriating to the members of the more traditional group do not tradition group have reached their boiling point. Instead of simply responding, they have been holding back. Like water boiling in a sealed can, it can become dangerous.

And what is the root cause of all this social conflict?

Contraception and, of course, abortion.
 
Speaking as an only child (and my parents had to limit the size of our family because of my mother’s health and my own disabilities), I have to disagree. I’ve seen large families that were very emotionally disorganized and unharmonious. I’m not saying that all large families are like this, but I think the “large family = happy and giving/small family = selfish and unhappy” assessment is simplistic. We don’t know why someone’s family is small and it’s nobody’s business to ask; the family could be small because the mother had several miscarriages in a row (I know a woman who suffered this sad situation, even though she wanted more kids).
 
As a child growing up in the late 1950s and 1960s, the average number of kids was two. TWO.

I noticed early on that different kids in the same family had different personalities. I noticed it in each of my sister’s kids. As the 1960s turned into the 1970s, I noticed a general drop in the level of civility among people and it kept getting worse and worse until today, I see kids cussing out their moms in public.

Certain anarchists and others who thought they had hit upon something “new” began to tell parents they should change their behavior towards their kids. The “old” ways were, well, old. And as we have been programmed to believe, old is bad.

I can think of nothing better than returning to Biblical principles, honoring your mother and father and giving your kids personal guidance because they are literally stupid and know very little about the outside world.

So, no, contraception is regarded as “normal” and/or “average” and if that’s what you’re taught then that’s what you’ll do. If we don’t teach our own kids what is right and wrong, someone else will.

Peace,
Ed
 
The topic line’s really an unfair generalization. Selfishness has a lot to do with the example parents give the kids by their own behavior. Big families were pretty common among Catholics when I was young. I still know some of those people and there aren’t many Mother Teresas. Although they do seem to have a stronger-than-average sense of family responsibility, they’re no less selfish or self-centered than anyone else. Their divorce rate and the fact that all but one of them limited their own kids to two are pretty good indications.
 
Contraception is often called the “Berlin Wall of Marriage”.
 
Dear rpp, I like that you made this progression of thinking. I do that too, go into long reflections… And no doubt also what you say is from observation, and there will be truth in it to some degree as there is in most observations
…but I guess, in the end, it’s subjective, and we see with the framework that is thrust on us by our experiences…
do we?
…my experience may be insular, because from what I’ve heard there is enough truth in what you say to convince me there is truth there, but it is modified to my mind by the fact that I know so many young people who are kind, generous and positive. In the end, I always tend to have a go at anything that seem generalized, as it’s never really that straighforward.

Well, dear rpp, I’m the second eldest of nine…and I’m impressed with what you think of large families like ours! At present our siblings are sharing family up-to-date newsletters. We’re all scattered geographically, but do share affection and mutual concern even when our communications are spaced in busier times. There aren’t any rifts or disagreements, and when we get together, usually around our amazing Dad, there’s always lots of laughter and sharing, on a wide range of issues. Some of the family are incredibly intelligent and productive…I guess if one looks at it some way, I’d be the failure of the family, my husband and me, especially from a materialistic viewpoint. My sibs aren’t materialistic even where successful, thank God. Most of the family have done well and achieved significantly, but when we get together the focus is mostly the family sense of unity and humour.

…So far so good…

But my grandchildren belong to smaller families…the two who live near us don’t have to be asked to put the washing on and hang out, bring back in and fold. Or to vaccuum etc…and my grandson, a teen, has set himself the role of dishwasher, and if he gets stuck into housework the windows are in danger of being cleaned also! He often begins and cooks the meal after school, as his sister is often getting on with university assignments by then, and when his Dad, a single Dad, comes in from work he has paperwork for the day to complete.

My four other grandchildren, ranging down to early teens, when I’m around, often come up to say, “Can I help you, Grandma?” My teen granddaughter in this family is the ‘worst offender’ at saying that, eg if I even look like starting to prepare dinner before their parents return from work. But the boys ask too, unsolicited, and they never forget to say thank you for whatever…even if I’ve just done some weeding while they were at school. I get lots of hugs from them all…so my personal experience of this generation is great! I find this kind of generosity and willingness throughout the many nephews and nieces…so it’s kind of hard for me to say other than great things about ‘the kids today’. One of the children made a bad mistake, to the shock of his life as he has Aspergers and didn’t realise, but his efforts to make up for it are ongoing…A number of my siblings have just two or three children but they’re great too

…so I guess it depends, rpp, and any generation has its negatives and positives.
 
I’d like to pass along a message from my mother, who was born the ninth of eleven kids, but no one with any sense would call her family the poster for the ideal large family: Her father was an alcoholic and a child abuser who molested several of the kids including my mother, and her mother was at best an emotionally distant enabler to him:
I hope that some of you can learn to be freed of your prejudice against small families and that you will pray that all families will lovingly raise their children the way God wants us to love them.
 
I don’t know about anyone else but every large family I’ve ever seen is completely dis-functional with one “faction” of the family that won’t talk to another over completely stupid reasons. Supposedly all from “good” religious families.

Spoiled or unsociable children are the result of bad parenting, not having a small family.

I’d also like to make a counter argument to the title of this thread and that is what is more selfish?
  1. Using contraception to limit the size of your family. I never did understand why this is selfish in the first place. And I need a better reason other than it being a sin against God.
  2. Not using contraception and having large amounts of children to continue increasing the population of planet exponentially so we can use the limited resources we have even faster than we do now. Call me a tree huger if you want but we’re quickly approaching a tipping point as to what we can reasonably sustain.
 
I can only speak to what I saw. Children who spend lots of time with adults seem to relate well to adults, which works out quite well when they are adults. They learn to share and be polite and to tolerate others. I don’t think it makes for selfish people to grow up without many other children in the household. As a child, I went where the adults went. So that meant I went to the nursing home to visit the sick, I went to stuff envelopes at church, I went to the hardware store and learned how to select and buy things, I fixed cars, whatever. Nothing in that teaches selfishness. Maybe sitting around all day by a TV does, I don’t really know. But what happened to me doesn’t.
 
I disagree wholly with your opinion. While some of the things you mention may have some validity, I think you are making an assumption, and generalisation. Most of the factors you list have more to do with poor parenting than family size. I know large families that have produced children no different from your modern “small family spoiled brat” and I know only children with a deep rich love of their faith, and the kindest and most selfless hearts I have ever known. I would even say that in my experience, family size has little to no effect on the kinds of people I know. I have noticed that offspring tend to grow up like their parents, or how their parents or role models have taught them to be. If you plunk your kid in front of a tv for 10 hours a day, yes you are going to have problems. Doesn’t matter if there is one kid in front of the tv or six.

Another thing that I think you aren’t really factoring in are large NON CHRISTIAN families. I am referencing typically lower income “I-have-kids-because-I-take-no-precaution” people. They will have 6 kids, rely on welfare for support, and care less about parenting than they do about the latest Bond movie. Their kids rely on government handouts for healthcare and meals, and because they don’t have a role model showing them what it means to work hard for what you want, and take care of yourself, and be responisble, they tend to grow up with a similar attitude.

I am not saying ALL kids in these situations will turn out the same, but I am saying parenting has everything to do with it, and family size has little to nothing to do with it. I also submit that contraception isn’t the only reason a couple has few children. There are things like health issues, income difficulties, infertility, adoption, etc that can lead a couple to only bring up 1-3 kids, rather than more. I think to assume that everyone who has a small family is a selfish couple, not open to God’s plan is a very terrible, hurtful, and judgemental opinion to take and stands directly against Matthew 7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.” And we must take every precaution to not let ourselves fall into that mindset, and seek always to look at our fellow man with kindness, compassion, and love.
 
Personally I think poverty and forced sharing causes people to be more materialistic. I’ve been poor and relatively wealthy, and I remember when I was poor I would focus on material things far more than I do now.

It’s much easier to share and not focus on material possessions when you have them. When you don’t, you really feel the shortage and dream of having more.
 
I come from a small family, and my home life has always been fantastic. I don’t think the OP seems to get the transitive property too well.
 
In additoin [sic], because larger families tend to also have a greater diversity of opinion within the household, thus giving family member more practice at dealing with differences and friction. The modern group does not get this practice as often as there simply because their are fewer people and, therefore, generally less divergence of opinion.

As a result, the members modern group tends to, often without realizing they are doing it, belittle members of the more traditional group. Generally, the traditional group takes it on the chin because they have learned to do that. HOWEVER, on the occassions [sic] whan a member of the more traditional group says something that is percieved as not favorable, the members of the more modern group, because they have not learned to take it on the chin, over-react. Still the the more traditional returns toi [sic] default position of patience.

As this escalates, eventually the members of the more modern group begin to believe that the more tradiitonal [sic] group does not really exist and are mystified when people disagree with them. This final insult is profoundly infuriating to the members of the more traditional group do not tradition group have reached their boiling point. Instead of simply responding, they have been holding back. Like water boiling in a sealed can, it can become dangerous.

And what is the root cause of all this social conflict?

Contraception and, of course, abortion.
Wow, I don’t even know where to start. I’m quite familiar with divergence of opinion, and I’m an only child. I’ve traveled throughout Europe, I have friends from all over the world, and I have disagreements with my own family members and friends. You can learn a great deal from a small group; you just need to have an open mind and be willing to engage in conversation. With that stated, let’s address the greater issue that you seem to be presenting. You seem to imply that society’s problems stem from the inherent differences in people. You’re right; not everyone has traditional values, but what is wrong with that? We can’t all be the same. And it’s not just the “modern” group who belittles. For example, you’re belittling the “moderns”. With your last two sentences, you’re just making jumps in logic.
 
Personally I think that there is a chicken/egg situation going on here. People are more selfish and materialistic - they have smaller families. Smaller families can easily produce spoiled brats who are even more selfish and materialistic than their parents.

That said, even going back 3 (or even 4 and 5) generations - you still had plenty of selfish and materialistic people.
 
Wonderful logic! At the other end of it, when you consider that currently we are consuming faster than the Earth can replace our resources, we can have larger familiies that use more stuff that is made by outcosting which results in poor countries being tken advantage of for our benefit, and mass starvation and disease.YEAAAAA! Lets go have more and more kids! The hell with everyone else! let the buggers starve!

miniature-earth.com/me_english.htm

www.storyofstuff.com

Yes! Let’s do nave more children so we can be kind, considerate, and generous!
 
Wonderful logic! At the other end of it, when you consider that currently we are consuming faster than the Earth can replace our resources, we can have larger familiies that use more stuff that is made by outcosting which results in poor countries being tken advantage of for our benefit, and mass starvation and disease.YEAAAAA! Lets go have more and more kids! The hell with everyone else! let the buggers starve!

miniature-earth.com/me_english.htm

www.storyofstuff.com

Yes! Let’s do nave more children so we can be kind, considerate, and generous!
so…many…holes…in…this…statement…brain explodes
  1. Sarcasm is NEVER conducive to a good discussion, and usually makes puts user of sarcasm in a negative light, and is rarely taken seriously.
  2. Can you honestly think that the reason there is such an overuse of resources is because there are too many people? Come on. Less than %10 of the world’s population live in the United States, yet the United States is the largest consumer on the world ecomony. Clearly, population has little to NOTHING to do with consumption of the world’s natural resources, while greed, selfishness, and wasteful attitudes do.
 
In my opinion, the issue is not the size of the family but the existance of a moral compass within the parents and their ability to take the time to teach their children to be generous, compassionate, loving, kind, moral people.
 
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