Contraception to Prevent Miscarriage?

[thewanderer]

I understand what your saying but she’s getting
older she’s 48 now, and I worry due to her being
old, if she got pregnant chances are the child
could be born defective then what?

Then you raise your child with loving care. Have you ever personally known or dealt with children with disabilities? Those I know are some of the most loving and happy people I have ever met and my life is so much more worth living because of their presence in it. Having a disabilitly does not make ones life worth less, it should mean that others fight all the harder for your standard of living. True compassion for others deals with them personally with love, it does not attempt to remove them from the picture by killing them under the guise of ‘protecting’ them from a ‘sub-standard life’.

 

[Rocco6196]

God also said go out and kill your neighbor
for working on Sunday , do you really think he
ment it, look at all the crazy things that are being said
not by god but man, the worlds 4000 years old,
and we co existed with dinosaurs , The lord never
said any of this.

 

[Rocco6196]

The bible says that people with disabilities and
deformities are not permitted in church, I have
nothing against disabled people, especially children
my love truly goes out to them, but also think
of how many families can’t afford all the medical
expenses then what, we place them on medicaid
we can no longer take care of the sick, what do we
do become communist and raise taxes on us hard
working people?

 

[R_C]

God also said go out and kill your neighbor
for working on Sunday , do you really think he
ment it, look at all the crazy things that are being said
not by god but man, the worlds 4000 years old,
and we co existed with dinosaurs , The lord never
said any of this.

I think you have a very limited understanding of our Sacred Tradition regarding life and the Sacrament of Matrimony.

As for the remark of “today’s age”: Jesus Christ, the living Word of God, is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

And God did not command to kill anyone for working on Sunday, or any crazy extremist thing against people with disabilities, etc. The Old Testament reflects the way men understood divine will…the divine law came from God, but men understood it in ways that were imperfect.

Which is why Christ said that He had not come to abolish the Law, yet to his disciples he spoke of it as “their law”, not as God’s law, and when they asked Him why Moses allowed men to repudiate their wives, He replied: “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But in the beginning it was not so”. And we know what this means: in the beginning. For “in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”.

And didn’t you read about how Christ stopped the people from stoning the adulterous woman? He told everyone: “whosoever is without sin, cast the first stone!” And He had already told them: “anyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart!”. They all left, because God’s divine mercy is greater than His perfect justice!

Christ, who came to give us the fullness of the divine revelation, said that God’s will was: “love your neighbor as yourself, do unto others as they shall do unto you. Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. You have heard it was said: thou shalt not kill. But I tell you: if you are upset with your brother, you will be subject to judgment, and if you call him fool shall be in danger of the fires of hell. Forgive not seven times, but seventy times seven, or as many times as you want God to forgive you.”.

I invite you to further deepen your education on this topic (ex. check out this thread) and understand that there are other ways other than contraception, only that, in our selfishness, we don’t feel like giving up lust, which has no place in Matrimony, and actually desecrates it.

Do you know how many abortions are performed each year in the U.S.? Between 800k and 1 million (the latest statistic, 2008, shows 1.2 million). 52% are younger than 25. 65% are not married. Contraception is not the solution, is the problem, because it reduces sex to nothing at all.

We hold on to a solid Sacred Tradition, and we have seen kingdoms and empires come and go and reshape history and the face of the world, and some things that seemed crazy today were the norm yesterday, and some things that seemed crazy yesterday are the norm today…but amidst all that chaos, in two millennia, we haven’t changed, only grown in strength. Because if a teaching is of human origin, it will fail. Not so if it is of divine origin.

Kindly allow me to place any intention you may have in the hands of Our Lady…if they are not in accordance with God’s will, surely she will intercede with the Lord to grant you a shower of graces in order to seek the truth, and find it. For it is not far from your heart.

 

[Rocco6196]

It is truly difficult ,we try to search for answers by
virtue of prayer , but I keep coming up with the
same answers, we go to church regulary but God
is always revealing the same answers.

 

[R_C]

I edited my post a little.

God is always revealing the same answers.

Keep praying He will reveal it in many different ways, and if you are open to the truth, you will one day find what you are looking for, you will hear His voice.

 

[Rocco6196]

It’s exodus that tells you to kill a person for working
on the sabbath, and regarding this shall not kill
I believe he ment murder, I had to for work
but I was cleared for all my shootings , it wasn’t
Personal or out of hate , it was business so I think
there is some flexibility, I spoke with our priest
and basically he said it was ok,

 

[R_C]

It’s exodus that tells you to kill a person for working
on the sabbath, and regarding this shall not kill
I believe he ment murder

Deuteronomy 24:1

If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house

Jesus replied: “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But in the beginning it was not so.”

Note well: Moses permitted you.

And “in the beginning it was not so”. Meaning: this is not Divine Law, only human law, an imperfect understanding of divine law.

The same applies to any other thing in the OT about putting to death. We cannot understand the OT unless we see it through the eyes of Christ.

One of the first things He did was to seemingly break the law of the Sabbath. Confronted, He replied that they didn’t know what they were doing. “My Father is always at work even until today, and so am I. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. God did not create men for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath for men.”

Indeed, they wanted to kill Him, probably based on that part of Exodus, too. But Christ was God, the Divine Legislator, and His interpretation overrules whatever we read in Exodus.

And yes, killing in this case means murder. F. ex. a soldier or a police officer who kill in the line of duty are not murderers. But anyways this is grave matter and should always be brought to a confessor.

Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

 

[Rocco6196]

In reference to abortion I agree no room in my heart for using it as
a form of birth control , and really I was raised
that you marry a virgin, I raised my daughters
with the same principle sex after marriage.

However try finding one in today’s era very unlikely
so with all these sexually active girls and boys without
birth control they would be having kids every year , again
you did not answer me are you willing to have your
taxes raised to pay for entitlements , most families can’t afford it

 

[thewanderer]

It’s exodus that tells you to kill a person for working
on the sabbath, and regarding this shall not kill
I believe he ment murder, I had to for work
but I was cleared for all my shootings , it wasn’t
Personal or out of hate , it was business so I think
there is some flexibility, I spoke with our priest
and basically he said it was ok,

Rocco, this is actually the reason why many people are Catholic and adhere to all of the Church’s official unchangeable doctrines. They have seen the ability to misinterpret the Bible to mean all sorts of ridiculous things. If you really want to it really isn’t that hard to make it look, on the surface, as if the Bible is contradicting itself. They decided that there is just no way that Jesus, who came to enlighten mankind and bring us to himself, the Truth, would leave us with such an ambiguous guidance as the Bible which has such potential to be misinterpreted to the detriment of humanity. And so they decide that He must have left us with a sure way of interpreting it, the Church. It is important to note that many many things that Catholics, even high ups, bishops and popes etc are not strictly binding doctrine. It is very easy to get caught up in the opinions of particular individuals and end up believing that their personal opinions reflect those of the Church.

I will make sure to say a prayer for you that you will persevere in searching for the truth with an open and honest heart and mind and that you might ultimately find it and be brought to Christ, and I would love it if you would do the same for me.

 

[Rocco6196]

Well unfortunately I don’t fear the bearing of the sword, for I know I am
a wrong doer , not just once but many times over.
I’ve always asked for forgiveness for my wrong
doing , most the times it was unintentional , but as a human I’m sure some sins
maybe questionable due to being weak, if he judges
me harshly well I guess he did not listen to my confessions
however he should know what’s in my heart , and my repenting and asking for forgiveness
is not based on fear but my moral beliefs.

 

[thewanderer]

In reference to abortion I agree no room in my heart for using it as
a form of birth control , and really I was raised
that you marry a virgin, I raised my daughters
with the same principle sex after marriage.

However try finding one in today’s era very unlikely
so with all these sexually active girls and boys without
birth control they would be having kids every year , again
you did not answer me are you willing to have your
taxes raised to pay for entitlements , most families can’t afford it

I would just like to say that I am one. As is my fiance, and pretty much all of my closest friends. As was my sister and her now husband. We do exist, and we are more than proud to be able to tell the world that we waited because of the profound respect we have for the meaning of the human sexuality and the dignity of our fellow men.

If you want to change the morals of the times, hold them to higher expectations, not in a demanding and demeaning way, or a ‘you’re just not good enough’ kind of way, but in a way that helps them to see the true good of the path you are presenting them with and encourages them to find the strength within themselves to face the challenge you put before them. We humans like to be given a challenge, a cause, a mission to fight for, help them see true morality as a mission worth fighting for. I know it is certainly one I wish, and intend, to stand my ground on, and I will not regret it in the least.
And by all this I don’t mean that people should go around judging others and throwing rules of morality in their faces, that would be counterproductive, not to mention the fact that such behaviour acts against the ideal of treating all others with the dignity they deserve. This is the centre of all Catholic morality, we are all made in the image and likeness of God. We deserve respect in keeping with our dignity as humans and as such have the responsibility to act in such a way that we always treat others with the respect, love, and human touch that they deserve.

 

[thewanderer]

The bible says that people with disabilities and
deformities are not permitted in church, I have
nothing against disabled people, especially children
my love truly goes out to them, but also think
of how many families can’t afford all the medical
expenses then what, we place them on medicaid
we can no longer take care of the sick, what do we
do become communist and raise taxes on us hard
working people?

If someone has a child in need of medical care that they cannot afford then it is our duty as fellow men to provide them with the resources they need to gain that care. However, even in the cases (all too often) when we fail in our duties to help those in need that would never make it acceptable for someone to kill a child with disabilities. I cannot lie that my heart aches at such a thought. When you have made an effort to truly come to know a child of disabilities, to have a relationship with them, to love them, there is no going back, you will then be filled with an absolute abhorrence at the thought that someone would use their disability as an excuse to remove that innocent, kind, caring, and loving child’s existence. It is unthinkable, unconsciousable, just utterly abhorrent thought. These children need love and personal attention like any other, they think and feel like any other, have aspirations like any other, laugh and love like any other, and because of their disability **we owe **them, as our fellow humans in need, more care, attention, and protection, not the death penalty. We are called to love and serve the poor and suffering, not tell them that their lives are worth less and then try to eliminate them from society. Such a position is simply unnaceptable!

 

[R_C]

However try finding one in today’s era very unlikely
so with all these sexually active girls and boys without birth control they would be having kids every year

This is exactly what happens and what will happen until the Antichrist comes.

When Antichrist comes, all will see bearing his seal as something that needs to be done, something necessary. It will be an abomination, but the majority won’t see it as such.

The same we see today with divorce, contraception, and abortion (in that order). They undo what is most sacred: the sexual act, the sacred seal of Matrimony, the mystical reflection of the Trinity and of the union between Christ and the soul.

It is never a matter of how hard it is to follow the right teaching, or of how many do the wrong thing. It’s a matter of being strong in doing what is right.

Birth control has never fixed the problem, nor will it ever fix it. It will only make it worse. Statistics clearly show this. You have the majority of abortions coming from young, unmarried girls.

As one involved with campus ministry, I can tell you that young Christians (especially those who adhere to the strict moral code of the Catholic Church) are very glad to struggle in achieving the self-mastery of chastity and to live in abstinence. They realize that sex simply isn’t (as the world portrays it) the center of our life, and it should never become such. And I say sex but I should say lust, the desire of sexual pleasure as an end. Because sex is very good, and sexual pleasure is a gift from God, meant to strength the bond between the spouses who become one, and to exalt the joy of procreation, of bringing forth a new life that God will bless with a new soul in His image and likeness. Lust is a monstrous distortion of all that is good in the marital act, and its effects are manifested in society, especially amidst those “sexually active boys and girls” who add evil on top of evil by adding contraception to premarital sex. Throw abortion in the equation if things didn’t quite work out with contraception, then throw divorce in the equation if things didn’t quite work out between the two or if a greater source of lust was found…do you see how terrifying a picture this is? No more responsibility, no more family, no more nothing…we lower ourselves to the level of beasts, to the terrible state of nature described by Hobbes as the greatest distortion of society.

We know better! The Kingdom of God is not something that will come down from heaven, it is among us, advanced by us, the lights of the world, the children of God. We are lights, and the darkest darkness becomes, the brighter our lights will shine.

 

[Rocco6196]

You are truly a good person , and your words bring me comfort
I’ve seen the worst of man and at times the best of humanity under the worst
of situations. I would like you to know that although you may think I sound harsh and maybe I gave you the wrong impression, I am more than happy to have my taxes raised so I can help to feed, shelter or whatever for the poor, disabled , and especially kids, They
are gods children , I will say a prayer for you , I will thank our lord that I had the opportunity to speak with a true catholic that exemplified love and moral
integrity without being judgmental, I don’t know if your a man or woman not that it matters but you are what all Catholics should be , I do have Christ in my heart and he shall always be there , I will never sway, there are times when I question things and maybe he’ll judge me in the end. I won’t make excuses, for I know I’ve sinned , but I also hope he will give me some lee way for I am human and always striving to better myself , thank you and god bless you

 

[thewanderer]

Rocco, if that was meant for me, thank you so much for your kind words. While I disagree with you politically, I can see that you at least mean well. Let us pray for each other and for this great nation that it may come once again to recognize the importance of always respecting human dignity and life in all of its forms. That all Catholics and Christians may unite in unapologetically presenting the high standards Christ has called us to, unconditional love for all and a true, personal and selfless approach to enshrining the absolute importance of respecting human dignity always and everywhere in all its shapes and forms.

 

[Rocco6196]

How do we differ politically , I’m willing to provide more benefits and resources to needy family and children , even at the expense of higher taxes. I think not wanting to do my fair share or allowing greed come between an extra mouthful
of food or medicine for a child is terrible.

 

[R_C]

Indeed, Rocco, your words show that you too are a good person, a disciple of the Lord seeking for the truth. Do not worry exceedingly! God does not ask the impossible from us. Furthermore, He does not ask the same from all of us. He knows you and knows your heart perfectly, and He knows your intentions for all you’ve ever done. And you know what is truly beautiful? That He will try and find always whatever good was in your intentions in order to justify you before His father. No matter what, you will always see Christ mercifully defend you, even at times when you yourself will find no excuse. Christ spoke, and His word stands forever as a timeless truth:

go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. I do not judge anyone. As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it.

And now let’s step into the Old Testament and find some beautiful words of the Son spoken by the Holy Spirit through the prophets:

"Don’t be afraid, you have certainly done wrong, but make sure now that you worship the Lord with all your heart, and don’t turn your back on him.

I am, I am he that blot out your iniquities for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins. I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, your transgressions, and, as a cloud, your sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed you.

 

[Rocco6196]

Well good night to all , you all are much better informed than I
regarding biblical quotations, however my questions arise from
seeing the famine , the hate, the evil , and not from tv or a historic literure , my beliefs of never swayed , my hope for humanity at times has by virtue of the human atrocities that
man has committed . so I ask questions, at times hard questions. The scars I carry and will for life force me to question mankind. I certainly hope
I have brought no offense to anyone , those ate never my intentions.
So god help this world , and I pray for all

 

[thewanderer]

How do we differ politically , I’m willing to provide more benefits and resources to needy family and children , even at the expense of higher taxes. I think not wanting to do my fair share or allowing greed come between an extra mouthful
of food or medicine for a child is terrible.

Forgive me if I misunderstood you, but I assumed that you were in favour of the HHS mandate. Even ignoring the fact that such a mandate steps all over the essential liberties of this citizens of this country, liberties that human dignity demands be given to all people, I do not want healthcare programs run at the federal level. This will only lead to unnecessary waste and so less money to actually help those in need. This is without keeping in mind that what the poor need most is aid from those who see helping the poor as a mission, not just a job.

Also, I took from your previous posts that you were happy with the results of this election. I cannot agree with you here for many, many reasons. There is of course the issue of abortion, and the undermining of the full meaning of marriage, but besides this there is the unnaceptable record of the last four years wherein the president expanded the deficit and added to the debt by unprecedented amounts. We have been put onto the path of Greece and I am unwilling to endorse or vote for someone who seems to have such a callous disregard for the unbelievably negative effects for all of a counry’s citizens when the debt of a country gets out of control. If we do not start cutting back on our debt immediately our economy will become much weaker in the long run, eventually hurting the poorest among us the most, those who we ought to be taking every step to protect and help. I am unhappy with the elections results in very large part because I believe it will ultimately lead to the poor being even poorer and with a much weaker govt. unable to help, and most of the other citizens not all that much better off. National debt is extremely bad for the poor and I cannot be pleased with someone who has spent their last term so callously racking up debt without any regard to the future of the poorest of our countries citizens. Without a good economy we cannot help the poor, either through the public or private sector. High amounts of debt is always bad for the economy.

I could go on with a list of things that I believe we likely disagree on, mostly it has to do with the fact that my understanding of economics is very different from that of the current administration, but I should probably cut it short here. I understand that you feel differently, but the way I see it our current administration is ultimately going to hurt the poor and this is why I said we disagree on politics without going into further detail. I hope that you can respect my views on this and that perhaps this will help you see that there are those who voted against Obama precisely because they cared about the poorest of the poor.