Contraception vs nfp

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For those making the argument that NFP requires women to abstain when they most desire intercourse, and that this is somehow unfair to women because men have a constant level of interest, isn’t such a system more unfair to men? If men “always” have an interest in intercourse, isn’t it harder for men to abstain potentially many more days a month, where, for reasons perhaps unrelated to fertilty, intercourse is not possible?

for the OP, wondering whether the unitive aspect can be lost when trying to conceive: yes, absolutely. At one time we were having difficulty conceiving, and were at the stage where the reproductive endocrinologist had prescribed a drug to promote (“force”?) ovulation. Then we had to have relations within such and such time, and then my bride had to get to the dr.'s office within so many hours, the shots gave her headaches and IIRC cysts, and on and on. It was not unitive in any normal sense of the word, so we stopped. We would never have done IVF, BTW, so it was, for my bride, a big step to stop.

@loveslife: can you paraphrase the Catholic objection to contraception? From your posts I do not think you understand it.
Lol. It’s not really a realistic argument anyway. Especially since its an untrue stereotype and based on a mindset of “men are keeping women down” lol. If that were the case I think men even catholic ones would favor contraception.🙂

Wives having higher sex drives is more common than popular media would have us believe
 
Hie, I’m new to these forums but I’ve noticed that no one is dealing with the issues on nfp and it’s implications pertaining to reproductive health as a whole. While I know most participants on these forums are american, I’m a medical student in southern Africa. I watch every day helplessly as young people die of HIV. What is the answer to our problem? How do HIV discordant couples deal with their situation. How does one protect oneself. Our. Culture isn’t particularly easy on the men as polygamy is in our history a sign of wealth, and while a man may want to be faithful there are so many social pushes against that. Women have also taken to being unfaithful, as payback, out of frustration, because they are more empowered and out of cultural influences from the west. So maybe let’s say when one meets their soul mate they find one of them is positive. What do they do? Out of love, the other does not want to infect their partner, but they cannot bear to be separate. What becomes of their children? Should they both die? Leave them orphaned? So many of our relatives have died or are infected, it’s a burden to leave more orphan, they do not obtain sufficient care and end up following their parents just as fast to the grave? I notice some catholic hospitals don’t even privilege contraception in affluent countries, but here, they do. We cannot help it, when a man continues to insist on conjugal rights, and does not wish to abstain for some days, and yet you cannot afford anymore children. What do you give the?
I and my boyfriend have agreed to use nfp when we get married. I am fortunate that he has accepted me as a catholic, and accepted what I believe and agreed to wok on it with me, but many are not as fortunate. What advice do i give them, how do I help the?

I worry that we are idealists at times and do no deal with the world as it is. I believe, but it’s not the perfect world we make it out to be! Where do I find a forum that deals with these issues? How do I become a better catholic doctor one day? A practical catholic doctor?

Please help.
 
Sorry for the spelling errors, in a hurry, hope you get it?
You might just want to start a whole new thread for that. This is more meant to address the mentality in nfp va contraception for an average couple without big health concerns.

Though I am curious to know if contraception is allowed in such matters
 
The only thing that you would use to defend your logic is some claim that a deity says this is how it is.
That turns out not to be the case.

Catholicism is a religion of both faith and reason. The teaching of the Church is not arbitrary, random or simple assertion. It has a basis in reason.

So, yes, there is a reasoned argument for not using ABC. That reasoning is, however, holistic, and can’t be understood by anyone who refuses to address the whole of what it means to be married, or who does not understand that Church teaching applies to the whole of a human life.

The reasoned argument against ABC is not just something that Catholics propound, by the way. Protestants do too, though with more than 30,000 different sects, that fact gets lost in the noise.

Consider, as a starting point, the effect that a woman unilaterally choosing to have her tubes tied would have, NOT on her fertility, but on her MARRIAGE! Her husband wants children, she denies them to him. And permanently so.

Or, if sexism is problem for you, reverse the situtation. A husband unilaterally decides to have a vasectomy. While not as long term or as high an impact, the use of ABC shares in the negative aspects of this scenario.

The point you are missing is that marital sex is not just a generative act, but a unitative act as well. That sex is not just about pleasure, but bonding. That it isn’t just about the moment, but a statement about the desire and willingness to join two into one. It is about re-iterating a sacrament, not just treating it as a physical, momentary, here-and-gone act that is essentially selfish and ultimately lonely.

When you really, truly GET this, then you can see and understand how fornication, adultery and serial monogamy are all covered, in part, by this same act of reason. To truly and properly bond with your marital partner, you must have sex only with them, ever, through out your life time, and that the act must not be a kind of mutual masturabtion, but must in fact be a unitative act . . . that two must work together towards forming and maintaining that unique, special and sacaramental bond.

Physically, this “two beome one” obviously occurs in the child. Two parents DNA join into one child. But emotionally and spiritually, the joining of two into one occurs in a properly ordered and executed marriage. NFP does not act against this, because neither partner can effect a decision about this multi-faceted act unilaterally. The acts required to effect NFP are “two acting in concert, as a corporate unified entity.” IOW, two must act as one.

Oh, and as for the charges of sexim and self-interest: the pill has negative effects on a woman’s receptivity and ability to enjoy the act, not just her health. It isn’t as clear cut as you make it out to be. One can make similar arguments about every single kind of ABC extant.
 
You are a male. You don’t know what your reaction would be if you were a female. Remember too that only men were literate when all these so-called rules were made. Men made the rules for women to follow. I am hoping my friend the OP keeps realizing that.
These are not “selfish, man-made, arbitrary” rules. These are God’s rules, and they are both amenable to reasoned understanding, and to objective testing.

Don’t believe in God? No problem, as the rules are still amenable to a reasoned understanding, and objective testing.

If I could wave a magic wand, and teach all Catholics just one thing, it would be this: “Catholicism is a religion of both faith and reason, in equal measure.”

Nothing better insulates you against the attacks of the enemy, or the anti-Catholic person, than to know that that what you believe is not just a made up thing, but in fact, the TRUTH, and that a great deal of Church teaching can be justified by the proper application and understanding of both faith and reason.

Western Philosophy, the basis for Western Civilization, is largely a product of Holy Mother Church. And Western Philosophy prizes truth. Not to put too fine a point on it, but God IS Truth. We know this by God’s very own words:

John 14:6

When you truly grasp the fullness of the word “truth”, that passage opens up a whole new world to you.
 
Ok, I have to ask a half hearted question but looking for serious answers. Let’s say that my wife was infertile… Would it be wrong to use contraceptives then? Let’s leave the fact that the notion of contraceptives is morally wrong alone for a second. Im talking theoretically here. Let’s say that we wanted to use condoms to make things less messy. Or, let’s say that she uses birth control for a variety of other reasons not associated with birth control. Is this still wrong? My thinking is that since we wouldn’t be preventing anything that isn’t already prevented by nature, it should be ok? No?
 
Ok, I have to ask a half hearted question but looking for serious answers. Let’s say that my wife was infertile… Would it be wrong to use contraceptives then? Let’s leave the fact that the notion of contraceptives is morally wrong alone for a second. Im talking theoretically here. Let’s say that we wanted to use condoms to make things less messy. Or, let’s say that she uses birth control for a variety of other reasons not associated with birth control. Is this still wrong? My thinking is that since we wouldn’t be preventing anything that isn’t already prevented by nature, it should be ok? No?
Bolding mine.
If the morality is ignored, then every thing is OK. However, pretending it can be ignored won’t make it not apply, and it is still immoral because the nature of the act is disordered.
 
Due to medical reasons( life threatening on one occassion ) was advised to cut tubes, after 3 children and two unsuccessful pregnancies. Did so with husband’s advice as well. Went for confession after sometime and Priest absolved saying, hope the Lord forgives. In my part, I confessed and asked for absolution and I know the Lord understands and knows what I was going true. I truly trust Our God is a forgiving God and truly understands the delima we an be. He also understands our weakness and if we have made wrong decisions, He will forgive, if we ask sincerely.
 
The phrase that “God helps those who helps themselves” is not biblical. There are many cases of people in the bible "helping them selves and it leads to ruin. God wants us to be obiedient to him not “help oursleves” our ways are not his ways.

As to your comments about men making the rules that’s not really relevent here. God doesnt have a favorite gender. We are equally loved, equally important to his plan, but not euipped for the same purposes. The fact that men can’t even have babies shows we have been given a gift but it is different than the gift men recieve.
Think what you like…🤷
 
Since it is sin that keeps us from God it is very important to know what is sinful behavior and what isn’t sinful behavior. Using something designed by God for a specific purpose for anything other than that purpose is sinful.

It is a teaching of the Catholic Church that sex is designed by God to be both unitive and procreative. Therefore sex outside of a marriage is a sin. Sex that is not open to life is a sin. Why is NFP not a sin? Because NFP is still open to life. Fertility is not a requirement to make sex holy and non-sinful. Otherwise sex among married couples past childbearing age would be sinful. Abstaining from sex is not a sin.

Also choosing ABC tells God you want the pleasures of sex but don’t want the results of sex ie baby and you are taking an active role in preventing that baby.

NFP says you are open to a baby, you are not actively preventing a child since the fertility cycle is a natural creation of God. You do not take sexual pleasure without being open to the possibility of having a child.
I just joined my friend in being an agnostic…you guys are free to think sex with pleasure as primary motive is some kind of sin. My friend got a lot of amusement from you people who continue to assume that God or some god made these rules. Ciao…
 
igor1980;9316774:
to avoid using sex purely for pleasure negating its dual purpose.

how is charting your natural body cycle preventing conception?

Not having sex is also an active role in preventing a baby. Are you saying a married couple that abstains is being sinful?

You are allowed to have sex whether or not you are fertile as long as you are married and open to life.
Relax you guys…sex feels great and the Church has been scared of that fact for centuries…
 
Then if you have grave reasons you can negate its dual purpose? Why if you have grave reasons cannot use ABC?

Again, if there is no problem in charting your natural body cycle, why do you need grave reasons to do it?

No, I’m saying that I don’t understand why you need grave reasons to use NFP.

Making charts, taking temperatures, and doing all that you can in order to prevent getting pregnant doesn’t seems to me quite open to life.
You are asking the right questions…but at the wrong place but you can look at their answers and still realize they have not told you anything. When I began asking these types of questions, I got the same thing. I eventually walked away completely from organized religion. All these rules about sex.
 
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