Contraception...Your beliefs?

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Just a reminder. Catholicism teaches that contraception is morally wrong and therefore a sin. Contraception means here is artificial not natural.

The reason being that we cannot interfere with the natural process of life. Our bodies are not exactly ours but also belong to our spouses and God’s; they being the temples of the Holy Spirit. Children are secondary reason. Sexual acts are sacred and when executed out, it must be open to the possibility of life.
 
Reuben_J said:
Just a reminder. Catholicism teaches that contraception is morally wrong and therefore a sin. Contraception means here is artificial not natural.

The reason being that we cannot interfere with the natural process of life. Our bodies are not exactly ours but also belong to our spouses and God’s; they being the temples of the Holy Spirit. Children are secondary reason. Sexual acts are sacred and when executed out, it must be open to the possibility of life.
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Well stated. My wife became pregnant even when we practiced NFP. What’s meant to be will be. 😉
 
aidanbradypop said:
Well stated. My wife became pregnant even when we practiced NFP. What’s meant to be will be. 😉
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Exactly. Today we are often confused with the certainty of modern science. While that may be so, God is still very real and lives ultimately come from him. He gives and he takes away. NFP is but a guide, a method but as far as God is concerned, life is his prerogative. Abraham and Sarah, Zechariah and Elizabeth; when humanly it was impossible but with God it was possible. Similarly we can plan and have a child but God can take it away if he so wish.
 
There is more and more science pointing to the pill and its interaction with female hormones. There is a great increase in breast cancer among young women. The pill is political and exploitive of women and satisfies men’s needs for sex.

Sex and greed are alike because one cannot ever be completely satisfied and we know of men who have an addiction to pornography that damages marriages. Even Catholic men engage in pornography.

I think people should study Humane Vitae by Pope Paul VI and see his prophecy of what would happen to society if we lost self control and removed the creation of a potential human being from the sex act.

I find it disconcerting as well the physical abuse against teen girls by their boyfriends, and someone close to me thought this was happening because of the indulgence of sex.

When a society becomes obsessed with sex, it has lost its faith in God, Cardinal Manning.

Blessed Mother of Fatima said more souls go to hell on account of the flesh than any other sin.

May be it could help one’s temperance to see that having sex is making babies.
 
Reuben_J said:
Exactly. Today we are often confused with the certainty of modern science. While that may be so, God is still very real and lives ultimately come from him. He gives and he takes away. NFP is but a guide, a method but as far as God is concerned, life is his prerogative. Abraham and Sarah, Zechariah and Elizabeth; when humanly it was impossible but with God it was possible. Similarly we can plan and have a child but God can take it away if he so wish.
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I think the best attitude a couple could have re: having children is: “Let go & let God” 😃 Aren’t we supposed to surrender all to God & hold nothing back? Why do we as a society think it’s alright to attempt to withhold our fertility from God?
 
KathleenGee said:
There is more and more science pointing to the pill and its interaction with female hormones. There is a great increase in breast cancer among young women. The pill is political and exploitive of women and satisfies men’s needs for sex.

Sex and greed are alike because one cannot ever be completely satisfied and we know of men who have an addiction to pornography that damages marriages. Even Catholic men engage in pornography.

I think people should study Humane Vitae by Pope Paul VI and see his prophecy of what would happen to society if we lost self control and removed the creation of a potential human being from the sex act.

I find it disconcerting as well the physical abuse against teen girls by their boyfriends, and someone close to me thought this was happening because of the indulgence of sex.

When a society becomes obsessed with sex, it has lost its faith in God, Cardinal Manning.

Blessed Mother of Fatima said more souls go to hell on account of the flesh than any other sin.

May be it could help one’s temperance to see that having sex is making babies.
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This what really worries me… and its a scary thought.
 
TheWarriorMonk said:
I’m not following. Usually a person that is a vegan knows more about meat than you can ever imagine.
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I know some vegans. There are some in my family- the family members are the dietary kind, and I know a few that do it for ethical reasons. Every kind of vegan is far more likely than the average person to believe scary stories about meat, even if the stories aren’t true. And vegans who do it for ethical reasons are especially likely to buy into any one of the conspiracy theories that people come up with.

My example was a better one because we’re talking about a fringe belief in the West that purports to recognize a grave moral issue which is overlooked by the ignorant masses. Am I talking about ethical vegans, or am I talking about the rare Catholic who’s consistently opposed to contraception? Both, actually, and in either case I trust the “ignorant masses” more than I trust the people who believe in their own superior something- whether it’s their superior holiness or their superior perception. Some vegans are reasonable and not at all gullible. But if someone’s buying into junk science and believing/perpetrating conspiracy theories about sadistic farmers and whatnot, that’s probably coming from a vegan and not from someone who eats meat.
 
Monergistic said:
“Some conclude that “natural family planning” is acceptable but “artificial” means are not. But this seems to overlook something significant: in both cases, you are still seeking to regulate when you have children. And so if one concludes that it is wrong to seek to regulate the timing and size of a family, then it would have to be concluded that natural family planning is just as wrong as “artificial” means. But if one concludes that it is appropriate to steward the timing and size of one’s family, then what makes “artificial” means wrong but natural family planning right? Surely it is not because God is “more free” to overrule our plans with natural family planning! Perhaps some have concluded that artificial forms are wrong because they allow one more fully to separate intercourse from the possibility of procreation. But if it is wrong to have intercourse without a significant possibility of procreation, then it would also be wrong to have intercourse during pregnancy or after a woman is past her childbearing years. There is no reason to conclude that natural family planning is appropriate but that “artificial” means are not.”

John Piper, 2006. Q&A thing on the Desiring God website. That sums it up nicely. Is a couple defying God when they take any action to plan and regulate the size of their family? If so, NFP does just that. But if it’s not that, what is the issue with artificial methods? If it is so wrong to decouple sex from babymaking, why not tell people to lay off during pregnancy or when you’re past childbearing years or if you’re infertile. Is it because such people are incapable of fully giving themselves to one another? With a bit of thought, that turns out to be obviously untrue.

The one thing that doesn’t mesh well with this thread is the idea that NFP leaves God with more freedom to override what you’re trying to do. To that point, it seems that several of these comments are rather proud of how NFP can be even more effective than some artificial means. No word yet on how many days a month you’re practicing celibacy (or maybe just have a massage followed by a cold shower), but it would seem that some Catholics here not only want to regulate the timing and number of children, but they want to prove they can do it better this way. I don’t see anyone cheering for the Quiverfull side at this point, but I might have missed it.
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Definately agree with you. In fact the claim NFP is even more effective than contraceptives really leaves God out. To me it’s six of one or half a dozen of the other, there is no practical difference as long as you are not aborting a fertilized egg.

It seems catholics are only allowed to practice NFP only under certain circumstances. I was never told this when I was catholic. I doubt most catholics were too. I would like to here from catholics here if they will not practice any kind of birth control at all.
 
Correct…practicing Catholics are to use natural family planning only under serious circumstances.

The earliest Christians only used sex for procreation. Consider that they lived under threat of death in many circumstances.

Also note that mothers who nurse their babies do not ovulate. But the seriousness of raising and providing for a child today in this economic environment and morass of immorality, marriage needs to be taken that much more seriously and to face straight on the parental responsibilities of providing a stable Christian home life for their children, that sobering enough for many. So I would think alot of sexual indulgence is just that for a married state, and we never know what will happen in our future.

I know a couple who ‘broke the law’, but they were totally willing to accept the possibilities and yes, it happened, they are now blessed with a third pregnancy and awaiting its birth.

Christ truly is the center of a Catholic marriage.

My sister shared with me the other day a story about a penitent and Padre Pio. The older lady came in to talk to him about something in a certain manner. He retorted back to her, ‘Lady because of your neglect, you have 2 sons in hell.’
 
Monergistic said:
I know some vegans. There are some in my family- the family members are the dietary kind, and I know a few that do it for ethical reasons. Every kind of vegan is far more likely than the average person to believe scary stories about meat, even if the stories aren’t true. And vegans who do it for ethical reasons are especially likely to buy into any one of the conspiracy theories that people come up with.

My example was a better one because we’re talking about a fringe belief in the West that purports to recognize a grave moral issue which is overlooked by the ignorant masses. Am I talking about ethical vegans, or am I talking about the rare Catholic who’s consistently opposed to contraception? Both, actually, and in either case I trust the “ignorant masses” more than I trust the people who believe in their own superior something- whether it’s their superior holiness or their superior perception. Some vegans are reasonable and not at all gullible. But if someone’s buying into junk science and believing/perpetrating conspiracy theories about sadistic farmers and whatnot, that’s probably coming from a vegan and not from someone who eats meat.
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But the meat eaters have a certain level of junk science of their own. Just look at all those body builders who have been told they have to eat huge amounts of meat for the protein, when in reality they probably don’t need so much protein and they would be much better off getting what they need from a mix of animal and plant sources rather than just meat.

Besides which, it’s not like the junk is equally balanced on both sides. There seems to be an abundance of reputable science showing that there are lots of health benefits to being vegan and few if any corresponding benefits to eating more than moderate amounts of meat, eggs and dairy.
 
jericho777 said:
I don’t how true that is my great grandmother had 22 kids. 😃
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Assuming there are no twins or triplets amongst them, I’m sure they weren’t all born exactly 9 months apart - most women are fertile for 35 years or more. So it makes sense that she was breast feeding each one for at least a few months and that doing so may have prevented her becoming pregnant again straight away.
 
LilyM said:
Assuming there are no twins or triplets amongst them, I’m sure they weren’t all born exactly 9 months apart - most women are fertile for 35 years or more. So it makes sense that she was breast feeding each one for at least a few months and that doing so may have prevented her becoming pregnant again straight away.
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Just one set of twins. I don’t know if there were any miscarries. I’m not sure how far apart they were spread out. It’s still a lot of time to be pregnant.
 
Phil_Marinus said:
Well… if males could control there urges then there would be no need for contraception.
Without the male not much happeneds
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You know women have sex because it feels good for them too. The man alone is not responsible for sex. The woman CAN say no!!! It is this dangerous philosophy that disenfranchises women to think that they cannot say no. If the guy leaves. Too bad. He didn’t really love her then. Men are not responsible for women’s choices and women are not responsible for men’s choices. You are responsible for you own choices. Many studies have shown that when it comes to asking for sex teens are split roughly 50/50 on who makes the first gesture.
 
What are my beliefs? Well being a father of 4 and not being very old (37) I dont want to be a grandparent yet and want my children to attend college first and get their careers started but my 2 oldest have already started, uh, having sex. So I want them to be protected from std’s and such but whatever the Lord Wills, i will accept.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Many of my Protestant friends are against abortion, but find no fault in taking birth control. They do not see it as a sin. They believe it is a modern issue that only came about around the 1960s and 70s. They Early Church and the Fathers were very clear on the matter of contraception.

Clement of Alexandria: Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted (The Instructor of Children 2:10:91:2 [A.D. 191]).

To have coitus other than to procreate children is to do injury to nature (ibid. 2:10:95:3).

Epiphanius: They [certain Egyptian heretics] exercise genital acts, yet prevent the conceiving of children. Not in order to produce offspring, but to satisfy lust, are they eager for corruption (Medicine Chest Against Heresies 26:5:2 [A.D. 375]).

More can be found here staycatholic.com/ecf_contraception.htm
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It doesn’t always work.

Surveys and studies about it seem to neglect that most people don’t seem to know how to use anything besides a condom, and that contraception can and maybe does get removed during sexual activity.

It’s just a failed attempt at technology to get around morality.
 
BA11 said:
My wife uses the pill and has never had any problems with it whatsoever. She has actually been on it long before we were married/having sex as she has the added dimension of hormone issues and very severe menstrual symptoms that it helps control. She has been off it for a given cycle a couple times over the years and it is a very unpleasant experience for her.

As a physician, I simply don’t have the boogyman fear of birth control that many christians do. Are there risks and potential side effects? Absolutely, but they are virtually non-existent when compared to those we see from psychological medications, painkillers and even antibiotics. If you are opposed morally fine, but I tend to regard those who run around screaming about the physical dangers of birth control only slightly higher than those who say vaccines cause autism. The birth control pill is not especially dangerous as far as drugs go. It is essentially listed as a carcinogen for legal purposes as relatively few cancer cases have ever been conclusively linked to it. Alternatively, smoking and alcohol which are endorsed by many christians conslusively causes hundreds of thousands of cancers per year in this country.

As for the moral side, understanding the science is useful. Yes, there is a remote chance that certain versions of the pill can potentially cause a fertilized egg to fail to implant in the uterine wall. However, when used correctly (taken the same time every day) most unbiased research shows these odds are incredibly remote. We’re talking taking 10,000 women who correctly use the pill and are having regular intercourse and maybe one or two would have a pregnancy prevented by a failure to implant. Most women who use it correctly will go their whole lives without experiencing it (not that they would know). The pill will simply prevent fertilization in almost all cases.

Now, even IF preventing implantation was a frequent occurence (and it’s not) the problem is that most people don’t understand how a fertilized egg matures. Medically, pregnancy starts at implantation, not fertilization. This is because a fertilized egg that has not implanted somewhere is no more capable of growing into a human than an unfertilized egg. Many women are infertile BECAUSE their uterine wall is naturally thin and unable to receive the egg. A fertilized egg that doesnt implant will never ever ever mature, it will simply disentegrate and be expelled. A fertilized egg MUST implant for human life to be generated. Saying life begins at fertilization is a PURELY religious construct not grounded in science in any form or fashion. If a fertilized egg on it’s own is incapable of generating a human being, how can one consider that the beginning of “life”?

And as far as sex being solely for procreation, there really isnt any reason for me to believe God created it solely for that purpose. Children are a wonderful gift, but so is sex. Additionally, which is the worse sin: Having eight kids you can’t support or waiting several years and then having two or three that you can?

The downfall of society argument is philosophically flawed at it’s core. Even if we accept such studies relating the use of the pill to divorce rates and such (the majority of which are conducted with biased researchers and even more biased sample sizes) and ignore the fact that correlation doesnt equal causation, the idea that something is sinful simply because people abuse it is ridiculous. Is having a beer a sin just because some people are alcoholics? Is sex itself sinful because people abuse it? Are guns inherently immoral because some people use them for murder? Likewise, is birth control a sin simply because some use it as a crutch and let it lead to bad relationships?
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Your post is filled with so many false equivalencies and outright fallacies one can not even begin to wade through that swamp. You mention “unbiased” studies. Let me guess, those are the ones you agree with so that makes them “unbiased?” Typical. The perfect use rate for most contraceptives is 1 in 100, not 10000. I’m not sure I would trust a physician that gets his 0’s wrong. NFP’s perfect use rate is as good as the Pill without all the side effects. Logic would dictate NFP is the better option. Lots of physicans say the exact opposite of what you say like Dr. Thomas Hilgers and Dr. Helene Alvare.
 
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