Contraception

[pbaylis]

Living as a genuine Catholic these days seems almost a lonely experience as far as family planning goes. My wife and I do not use contraception, although we use natural cycles. We have 4 children and if we have more, then so be it.

My wife was recently chatting to one of her Catholic friends, who had the temerity to ask her “Don’t you use some type of planning?” as if she were pointing out a serious shortcoming of our situation of having 4 children. My wife’s friend then went on to explain that her husband used a condom!!!

What is going on? Last time I looked contraception was still against our Catholic faith. And I hope it never changes. When we go to Mass, there are very few if any families with more than 2 children.

There appear to be couples out there who still don’t want to obey, for whatever reason: money, career, lifestyle, freedom from the “burden” of children.

 

[Stylites]

While it is sad to think there are some “cafeteria catholics” out there, it is best to simply pray for them and lead by example, as you have been doing.

.

 

[Apryl]

My wife was recently chatting to one of her Catholic friends, who had the temerity to ask her “Don’t you use some type of planning?” as if she were pointing out a serious shortcoming of our situation of having 4 children. My wife’s friend then went on to explain that her husband used a condom!!!

It is not just that they are not doing what they are supposed to do, in some cases, I have to wonder if they know how off they are.

Several years ago, leaving church, immediately after Mass,one of the members was telling another woman that if her daughter (12 yo at the time) didn’t go to ‘the box’, she would IMMEDIATELY take her to the doctor and get it ‘taken care of’. Just thinking of that moment makes me gag. Not only for what she said and how callous she was, but the fact that I said nothing myself!

Some people don’t see the use of condoms as a method of birth control. They also think that NFP means that you will have a house full of kids (like that’s the worst possible outcome).

I have known many women, Catholic and not, to admit their use of ABC, but they still got pregnant!

In this day and age, while contraception is a big deal, we have people who think nothing of theft. cheating, divorce and remarriage, cohabitation, yadda yadda…

There are no more sacred cows. We have to do better.

 

[cmscms]

I have never been married and have no kids (obviously, since I have always practiced that aspect of the religion). Nonetheless, I think I understand where you are coming from. I know a lot of Catholics think that ‘no contraceptives’ is either an old wive’s tale or the part of the Church ‘every one ignores so it is OK. I mean come on… how could God ever expect us to do that!’

When in my early 30s I felt a lot of pressure from society to marry and have kids before it is too late. All I could think was how unfair. I am a weirdo for having no kids and the second I have my 3rd child I will be a weirdo for having more than 2??? It makes no sense to me.

I have often heard people say behind other people’s back ‘I can’t believe they are on number 4’ as if it was a bad thing.

I think you are doing the right thing

CM

 

[Petergee]

Unfortunately these sort of people are everywhere in Western countries. Though I do think they are less common than they were 20 years ago. I feel like screaming at them, “why do you bother pretending to be Catholic and simultaneously blatantly contradict and disobey Catholic doctirine and even urge other Catholics to disobey it? You barefaced hypocrite!” But I don’t.

Unfortunately many of them seem to ignorantly believe the terrible lie that has been peddled by many who should and do know better, “Abstaining from contraception is only an optional extra for Catholics, in fact everything is optional since Vatican II, you can choose whatever doctrines you want and still be just as Catholic as anyone”.

We have to gently educate them no matter how rude they are to us. One tactic I use is whenever anyone asks, “How many kids do you have?” (often with emphasis on the “Hoiw many” as they seem to have the impression that we have “too many”). I always answer “only four” kind of wistfully as if I wish there were more (which I do).

The ones I feel really sorry for are the couples who have never contracepted and are desperately trying to have kids, and who don’t resort to the equally immoral IVF, yet can’t manage to have any surviving kids, or only one or two. Then everyone who doesn’t know them intimately lumps them in with the mob of “cafeteria Catholics” and their “STOP at two” attitude.

 

[lovemyboys]

Living as a genuine Catholic these days seems almost a lonely experience as far as family planning goes. My wife and I do not use contraception, although we use natural cycles. We have 4 children and if we have more, then so be it.

My wife was recently chatting to one of her Catholic friends, who had the temerity to ask her “Don’t you use some type of planning?” as if she were pointing out a serious shortcoming of our situation of having 4 children. My wife’s friend then went on to explain that her husband used a condom!!!

What is going on? Last time I looked contraception was still against our Catholic faith. And I hope it never changes. When we go to Mass, there are very few if any families with more than 2 children.

There appear to be couples out there who still don’t want to obey, for whatever reason: money, career, lifestyle, freedom from the “burden” of children.

I’d be careful about judging people with 2 children. There are many people with 2 children who do follow the Church’s teachings. Also, I know people with 4/5 kids who happily use the pill between children. Number of children isn’t the way to figure out if people are true Catholics.

 

[Apryl]

I’d be careful about judging people with 2 children. There are many people with 2 children who do follow the Church’s teachings. Also, I know people with 4/5 kids who happily use the pill between children. Number of children isn’t the way to figure out if people are true Catholics.

So true!

If people use NFP, and choose to limit the number of children, their numbers can be that small, or smaller.

One of the couples who teach NFP in our diocese have one son (they can’t risk having more children because of the medical concerns for the child, and the mother0

 

[lovemyboys]

The couples who follow NFP even though pregnancy could kill the mom… those people amaze me. I know two couples like this. Most certainly, they’re some of the most saintly people out there.

When you’re looking at a couple with “only” one or two kids at Mass, you just might be looking at one of the most saintly couples in the entire Church.

 

[puzzleannie]

My wife was recently chatting to one of her Catholic friends, who had the temerity to ask her “Don’t you use some type of planning?” as if she were pointing out a serious shortcoming of our situation of having 4 children. My wife’s friend then went on to explain that her husband used a condom!!!.

real friends don’t ask such personal questions and don’t volunteer such personal information. two breaches of common civility in one conversation. get new friends.

 

[lovemyboys]

The couples who follow NFP even though pregnancy could kill the mom… those people amaze me. I know two couples like this. Most certainly, they’re some of the most saintly people out there.

When you’re looking at a couple with “only” one or two kids at Mass, you just might be looking at one of the most saintly couples in the Church.

 

[jimcav]

Unfortunately these sort of people are everywhere in Western countries. Though I do think they are less common than they were 20 years ago. I feel like screaming at them, “why do you bother pretending to be Catholic and simultaneously blatantly contradict and disobey Catholic doctirine and even urge other Catholics to disobey it? You barefaced hypocrite!” But I don’t.

So because you practice NFP, you are the perfect Catholic, right? No struggles at all in your Catholic life, right? If I explored your faith life and your Catholicity, what would I find, a saint perhaps? Doubtful…

Sorry, but almost every Catholic struggles with some part of the faith at sometime in their lives. That’s part of our humanity, it’s part of human weakness and lack of understanding and likely part of poor teaching on the Church’s part. And for you to be so condescending to those that don’t, for many reasons, follow the Church’s teaching on NFP is just well, not very Catholic of you…Yes, I think Jesus taught us that those that are without sin, should cast the first stone. Is that a stone in your hand?

 

[Southerncross]

We were asked from our 3rd. child on whether they were mistakes .This was from ordinary people so one may excuse it to some extent on the basis that it was due to ignorance but when was the last time ( if ever ) you heard a priest include the teachings of the Church on contraception in his Sunday homily ?
Pax et bonum :knight2:

 

[Apryl]

So because you practice NFP, you are the perfect Catholic, right? No struggles at all in your Catholic life, right? If I explored your faith life and your Catholicity, what would I find, a saint perhaps? Doubtful…

Why is it that soften, when it comes to ‘righ’ and ‘wrong’, people seem to think there should be some lift on such descriptions when sex is involved?

 

[timotheos]

And for you to be so condescending to those that don’t, for many reasons, follow the Church’s teaching on NFP is just well, not very Catholic of you…Yes, I think Jesus taught us that those that are without sin, should cast the first stone. Is that a stone in your hand?

So let me get this right … we Catholics are forbidden to recognize and teach any truth because we are sinners? That it is more sinful to try to correct someone who sins than the sin is itself? I don’t recall that the woman who was caught in adultery acted as though she was exonerated and emboldened by Jesus’ intercession; as if she now felt she was OK because Jesus had implied her sin was certainly not nearly as serious as the big bad crowd’s. No, she knew she had sinned, she knew the penalty. The message of Jesus was to extend mercy for those who know they are in the wrong, not to ignore or sanction all that is wrong simply because it is not our place to judge.

Contraception hurts us, regardless of how we may think it allows us freedom and pleasure. It stunts our ability to become complete and authentic human beings. It is wrong. And while I completely sympathize with those caught in the lie that it is somehow OK, it just doesn’t hold up to scrutiny

God bless, Tim

 

[Iowa_Mike]

So let me get this right … we Catholics are forbidden to recognize and teach any truth because we are sinners? That it is more sinful to try to correct someone who sins than the sin is itself? I don’t recall that the woman who was caught in adultery acted as though she was exonerated and emboldened by Jesus’ intercession; as if she now felt she was OK because Jesus had implied her sin was certainly not nearly as serious as the big bad crowd’s. No, she knew she had sinned, she knew the penalty. The message of Jesus was to extend mercy for those who know they are in the wrong, not to ignore or sanction all that is wrong simply because it is not our place to judge.

Contraception hurts us, regardless of how we may think it allows us freedom and pleasure. It stunts our ability to become complete and authentic human beings. It is wrong. And while I completely sympathize with those caught in the lie that it is somehow OK, it just doesn’t hold up to scrutiny

God bless, Tim

Tim,

A couple of points to add to your remarks:

1. The apostles, who ate, drank, talked, walked, prayed and played with Jesus taught that contraception was wrong. Look up the Teachings of the Twelve Apostles to the Nations in the Didache, believed to be the oldest existing non-Scriptural Christian writing:

. . . thou shalt not use magic; thou shalt not use philters; . . . (II, 2)

(A “philter” is translated to be a magic potion. In those days the two primary purposes for magic potions (drugs) were abortion and artificial contraception.)

I suggest people of faith take the advice of the Apostles rather than secularists or relative moralists. In addition, Gandhi, Luther, Wesley, Calvin etc. etc. all condemned contraception.

1. People should read Humanae Vitae by Pope Paul IV written and published in 1968 in light of how accurately it predicted what would happen because of the wide use of contraceptives. People should think about how the 'ol sexual revolution has worked out for mankind since the 60’s? The clear and irrfutable answer is that sexual promiscuity, abortion, STDs, infidelity etc. have all skyrocketed since the 60’s and it seems to be getting worse. Check out what’s happening on the social networks…sexting, hooking up and pornography are going wild and pedophiles are having a field day.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[Petergee]

The couples who follow NFP even though pregnancy could kill the mom… those people amaze me. I know two couples like this. Most certainly, they’re some of the most saintly people out there.

When you’re looking at a couple with “only” one or two kids at Mass, you just might be looking at one of the most saintly couples in the entire Church.

No disrespect to those couples, but “late safe period only” NFP is just as, if not more effective than the most effective contraceptive. Abstaining for about half of the days of each month takes some self-discipline, but I don’t think that in itself makes one saintly.

 

[Petergee]

So because you practice NFP, you are the perfect Catholic, right? No struggles at all in your Catholic life, right? If I explored your faith life and your Catholicity, what would I find, a saint perhaps? Doubtful…

No doubt at all, you would find me stumbling and falling time and time again, usually with the same old sins over and over. But I don’t recall ever putting down another Catholic because he manages to avoid a sin which I commit, as the OP’s wife’s “friend” did.

Sorry, but almost every Catholic struggles with some part of the faith at sometime in their lives. That’s part of our humanity, it’s part of human weakness and lack of understanding and likely part of poor teaching on the Church’s part. And for you to be so condescending to those that don’t, for many reasons, follow the Church’s teaching on NFP is just well, not very Catholic of you. …Yes, I think Jesus taught us that those that are without sin, should cast the first stone. Is that a stone in your hand?

I wasn’t at all condescending to anyone. I can’t stand hypocrisy though. Even though as I said I’ve never had the guts to confront such hypocrites out loud. We’re not talking about people who try to do the right thing and often stumble and fail, then get up, confess, and start trying again. We’re talking about people who deliberately and over many years coontinuously do the wrong thing without ever confessing it, but act as though they were good Catholics and even sneer at other Catholics who don’t commit this sin and try to convinve them to sin too. That is evil. The only ones I see being condescending and throwing metaphorical stones are the OP’s wife’s “friend”, and you.

 

[lovemyboys]

No disrespect to those couples, but “late safe period only” NFP is just as, if not more effective than the most effective contraceptive. Abstaining for about half of the days of each month takes some self-discipline, but I don’t think that in itself makes one saintly.

What I think makes those couples special is taking the risk of pregnancy at all when it could cause the woman to die-- I think most people in that position would go for sterilization (and priests will often give special permission to couples in that situation (right or wrong, that’s what I know to be true)). To me, they are amazing. I probably shouldn’t call any person on this Earth “saintly,” though.

 

[paperwight]

Tim,

A couple of points to add to your remarks:

1. The apostles, who ate, drank, talked, walked, prayed and played with Jesus taught that contraception was wrong. Look up the Teachings of the Twelve Apostles to the Nations in the Didache, believed to be the oldest existing non-Scriptural Christian writing:

. . . thou shalt not use magic; thou shalt not use philters; . . . (II, 2)

(A “philter” is translated to be a magic potion. In those days the two primary purposes for magic potions (drugs) were abortion and artificial contraception.)

I suggest people of faith take the advice of the Apostles rather than secularists or relative moralists. In addition, Gandhi, Luther, Wesley, Calvin etc. etc. all condemned contraception. (end quote)

The opinions of non-Catholics such as Gandhi, Luther etc. are irrelevant to Catholics, I’d have thought.

This ‘advice of the Apostles’ you cite. Explain to me why the Church does not itself quote this document, if it is so important?

The fact that ‘the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles’ is never quoted in homilies, and does not appear in the Catechism means, surely, that either its authenticity is suspect or its teaching is in error.

 

[Apryl]

What I think makes those couples special is taking the risk of pregnancy at all when it could cause the woman to die-- I think most people in that position would go for sterilization (and priests will often give special permission to couples in that situation (right or wrong, that’s what I know to be true)). To me, they are amazing. I probably shouldn’t call any person on this Earth “saintly,” though.

Ahh… but ARE they takling any more risk than using an artificial method of birth control?

Let us not forget: there is NO method of ABC that is 100% effective.

Taking the pill, with a, 99.9% effective rate (whic, I don’t think even exist, but let’s go with that)

That means that for every 100 times that you have sexual intercourse, there may be one child conceived.

Trust me: women get pregnant on the pill EVERY DAY!

Using the Natural Family Planning… if you use it, can be as effective, in fact, more so.

Basically, NFP means not having sex when the woman CAN conceive. Using ABC means that you take the risk of getting pregnant, period