Contradicting Info - Anyone Else Confused?

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dailey

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I am very confused and hoping someone can help point me in the right direction.

I have read the threads on this site that talk about how very few people actually make it into heaven…(according to the bible and many Saints). I honestly always thought most people go to purgatory.

But then I am reading “Divine Mercy in My Soul” by St. Maria Faustina…and I read things that Jesus said to Maria, for example:

“Distrust on the part of souls is tearing at My insides. The distrust of a chosen soul cause Me even greater pain; despite My inexhaustible love for them they do not trust Me. Even My death is not enough for them. Woe to the soul that abuses these {gifts}.”

So here is my confusion…and maybe its just me.🤷 But on the one hand, the Saints are telling us its so difficult to get into heaven and obviously that leads to doubt in our minds that we may not be one of them, given those kind of odds. Yet on the other hand, Jesus is saying that we should trust in Him?

Surely, many of the people who ended up in hell believed that when they died Jesus would save them? I WANT to trust in Jesus. But all this reading makes me scared and doubtful.

Anyone else confused or would anyone care to comment?
 
If a whole bunch–even the vast majority- doesn’t make it, then I’m doomed.😦

Many Franciscans believe that at the moment of death, our Lord gives us one last chance, and that no one is in Hell. I hope that they are right.
 
Different saints lived in different eras. In some, the people were lax and needed to be frightened into living better lives. In others, people were already convinced there was no hope, so they needed encouragement. Each saint wrote for the people of his time.

But, really, none of that matters. What does matter is that God wants every single one of us in heaven with Him. We are all called to be saints, so we should go about living our lives in such a way that we please Him when He has to judge us.

Betsy
 
baltobetsy said:
Different saints lived in different eras. In some, the people were lax and needed to be frightened into living better lives. In others, people were already convinced there was no hope, so they needed encouragement. Each saint wrote for the people of his time.

But, really, none of that matters. What does matter is that God wants every single one of us in heaven with Him. We are all called to be saints, so we should go about living our lives in such a way that we please Him when He has to judge us.

Betsy
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This is an excellent explanation. Thanks:thumbsup:
 
dailey said:
I am very confused and hoping someone can help point me in the right direction.

I have read the threads on this site that talk about how very few people actually make it into heaven…(according to the bible and many Saints). I honestly always thought most people go to purgatory.

But then I am reading “Divine Mercy in My Soul” by St. Maria Faustina…and I read things that Jesus said to Maria, for example:

“Distrust on the part of souls is tearing at My insides. The distrust of a chosen soul cause Me even greater pain; despite My inexhaustible love for them they do not trust Me. Even My death is not enough for them. Woe to the soul that abuses these {gifts}.”

So here is my confusion…and maybe its just me.🤷 But on the one hand, the Saints are telling us its so difficult to get into heaven and obviously that leads to doubt in our minds that we may not be one of them, given those kind of odds. Yet on the other hand, Jesus is saying that we should trust in Him?

Surely, many of the people who ended up in hell believed that when they died Jesus would save them? I WANT to trust in Jesus. But all this reading makes me scared and doubtful.

Anyone else confused or would anyone care to comment?
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Well, I think when the Saints were saying very few go to heaven, I think they meant directly to heaven w/o a trip to Purgatory. If I recall (and, I know, this is only private revelation), in one of the apparitions of Mary, she said most souls go to Purgatory, and many go to hell, but very few go straight to heaven.
 
Scoobyshme said:
Well, I think when the Saints were saying very few go to heaven, I think they meant directly to heaven w/o a trip to Purgatory. If I recall (and, I know, this is only private revelation), in one of the apparitions of Mary, she said most souls go to Purgatory, and many go to hell, but very few go straight to heaven.
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That makes a great deal of sense:)
 
Exactly. All we can do is to try our best to please God.
Loving God and Neighbor is key.
 
baltobetsy said:
Different saints lived in different eras. In some, the people were lax and needed to be frightened into living better lives. In others, people were already convinced there was no hope, so they needed encouragement. Each saint wrote for the people of his time.

But, really, none of that matters. What does matter is that God wants every single one of us in heaven with Him. We are all called to be saints, so we should go about living our lives in such a way that we please Him when He has to judge us.

Betsy
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Great answer, Betsy.

Many of those saints are commenting on passages like Matthew 7:13-14:

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.”

Peter Kreeft posits that even one soul going to hell would be considered “many” and one less than everyone going to heaven would be considered “few” through the lens of God’s unconditional love for us.

I think there is room for such an interpretation because the Church has never stated that any specific person is definitely in hell. We hold out hope for everyone.

Ultimately, it is our own choice where we will spend eternity. God isn’t out to blindside us at the pearly gates.
 
dailey said:
I am very confused and hoping someone can help point me in the right direction.

I have read the threads on this site that talk about how very few people actually make it into heaven…(according to the bible and many Saints). I honestly always thought most people go to purgatory.

But then I am reading “Divine Mercy in My Soul” by St. Maria Faustina…and I read things that Jesus said to Maria, for example:

“Distrust on the part of souls is tearing at My insides. The distrust of a chosen soul cause Me even greater pain; despite My inexhaustible love for them they do not trust Me. Even My death is not enough for them. Woe to the soul that abuses these {gifts}.”

So here is my confusion…and maybe its just me.🤷 But on the one hand, the Saints are telling us its so difficult to get into heaven and obviously that leads to doubt in our minds that we may not be one of them, given those kind of odds. Yet on the other hand, Jesus is saying that we should trust in Him?

Surely, many of the people who ended up in hell believed that when they died Jesus would save them? I WANT to trust in Jesus. But all this reading makes me scared and doubtful.

Anyone else confused or would anyone care to comment?
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I have read St. Faustina’s diary several times and loved it! It is a wonderful book and very spiritually enriching. 🙂

We also have to remember that Gods greatest attribute is Mercy. I believe Jesus himself even says that in the diary. Therefore, when we *trust * in that mercy and try our hardest to live a life pleasing to him we shouldn’t fear hell to much. What we should fear is saying something to ourselves like “Oh well, even if I do this Jesus will forgive me.”

It should always be that we are trying our hardest to do what is right, but if we should fail, trust that if we truly are sorry and ask for mercy, we are confident he will grant it. He says in the Bible (I believe, if not there than a saint said it) that He loves us as much as the Father loves him. If that’s not something to ponder, I don’t know what is! :extrahappy:

SO NEVER FEAR, that’s what the devil wants! Only love, hope, and trust!

God Bless You!

SteubieGirl 👍
 
I have wondered about this myself, and when I read St Faustina I felt that, overall, the messages of Jesus placed a new emphasis on “trust”, and my personal hope for salvation.

Actually, if it had been up to my judgment only, I would have questioned the diary because of this - however it is not up to me, and the Church has accepted her sainthood, and the Divine Mercy devotion.

I don’t know that the Bible actually says that few souls make it to heaven. Jesus said that few are on the path to life, and many on the road to perdition (Matt 7:14), but the meaning here is that the direction most people are taking in this life is to hell - but He doesn’t say that that is where they spend eternity, after death and judgement. I’m not sure, but I think that any other passages in bible can be seen in the same light.

So, we should believe and act as if the road is hard, the gate narrow, and few take it, while leaving the final numbers to God.

I believe that some saints have been more forthright in speculating on the actual numbers. This is a different matter from the bible. A saint is canonised for his or her personal sanctity and way of life, but canonisation does not give Church endorsement to everything they said or wrote. We should respect their opinions and writings, but are not obliged to accept them in detail - in fact prudence would tell us to accept them only the light other opinions, and more recent teaching. (as others have said in this thread - they wrote for their times)

On this matter, of saint’s opinions, even St Faustina’s diary is, strictly speaking, an “opinion”. However, given the circumstances of St Faustina’s life and canonisation, and the fact that the Divine Mercy devotion has been accepted, we can infer that her diary, including the messages from Jesus, has been accepted as genuine, and hence, the slightly new emphasis on “trust” is endorsed.

Remember that Faustina’s diary was banned for many years by the Church - so this shows that the Church initially rejected it, and then, on close review, accepted it.

The diary itself has a similar passage to the “two roads” of Matthew, where Faustina sees two groups of people - a large group of people going to hell, and a smaller group of people going to heaven, and, in another passage, Faustina is judged by Jesus, and receives a sentence of one day in purgatory, with Faustina commenting “I did not know that even the smallest transgressions will have to be accounted for” (Notebook 1-36)

~ Edmundus
 
Remember that private revelation is not binding on Catholics. Her writings have been deemed to not contradict the faith, but that doesn’t mean it’s all fact because we simply don’t know. They certainly do seem to help a lot of people gain trust which is good though.

So here’s what you must remember: Trust Him! 👍

That’s precisely what we need if we want to go to Heaven, to do His will, and not fall into despair and scrupulosity. It’s not for us to know who doesn’t make it to Heaven or who goes through purgatory first. We can have assurance on the declared saints to be in Heaven and we should always pray for the dead. Whether to help them in purgatory, to help them to get that final chance at repentance before death, or to help in ways we can’t know, no prayer goes to waste.

We are not the judges of the state of people’s souls, but we can and should judge our bad actions to correct and lead each other to God.

He wants our trust because without it, we can’t love Him back!
 
dailey said:
I am very confused and hoping someone can help point me in the right direction …Surely, many of the people who ended up in hell believed that when they died Jesus would save them? I WANT to trust in Jesus. But all this reading makes me scared and doubtful.

Anyone else confused or would anyone care to comment?
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We don’t know for a fact how those people lived their lives - those you refer to who believed Jesus would save them.

As I’ve thought about your post, I have had to ask myself what do I believe? And how am I living my new faith?

Since I’m very new to Catholicism, I don’t have too many answers. Just things to think about. Like:

God loves all of us very much. He created us and what God created He saw as very good. And what does He ask of us? That we love Him. One thing I’ve felt quite strongly when I’ve felt the presence of the Holy Spirit, particularly during Mass, is HOPE.

From the Baltimore catechism I find encouragement:
Q: Why did God make you?
A: God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with him forever in Heaven.

Q: What must we do to save our souls?
A: To save our souls we must worship God by faith, hope, and charity; that is, we must believe in Him, hope in Him, and love Him with all our heart.

My comment then, is to focus on HEAVEN, not hell, remembering that God did not create hell, although He did allow for it to come into being.

Maybe I could ask you a question. Has Jesus ever given cause for us not to trust Him? Never.

If there is reason to fear that one is not on the path that leads homeward, perhaps counseling with a priest would help. If it were me, I might make an appointment to talk over this particular concern. It is a good question! Maybe I’d consider going to confession, and spending time with the Lord everyday in prayer. Ask Him your question! I do know He answers prayers. Study the Bible, attend Mass, everyday if possible, and Adoration. These things help focus our minds and hearts on the love God has for us. In my short experience learning about Catholic faith, doing some of these things has helped me want to know what it means to love God. And I think that loving God includes doing some of these things.

Jesus told his disciples that He was going to make a place for them, and that He would come for them to take them where He is. The Lord came for Mary to take her to where He is. And it is my hope that the Lord will come for US to take us to where He is. For that is the purpose of our creation.

Over and over Jesus said to his disciples “Peace be with you.” How many times do we hear those comforting words at Mass?

Let’s trust Jesus, and in trusting, do what He asks of us. Then we will have no cause to worry about that other place.

Pax,
Hope
 
FYI…Marys own words at Fatima seem to support how difficult it is/will be to get into heaven…even getting into purgatory surely won’t be a “walk in the park”. Maybe that old axiom it true…hell was made for Catholics – because to whom much is given…much is expected…and we have surely been blessed in abundance!

Pax Christi
Words spoken by Mary at Fatima
theotokos.org.uk/pages/approved/words/wordfati.html
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13 May 1917
“Do not be afraid, I will not harm you.”
“I come from heaven.”
“I have come to ask you to come here for six months on the 13th day of the month, at this same hour. Later I shall say who I am and what I desire. And I shall return here yet a seventh time.”
Lucia then asked if they would go to heaven and she was told yes, she and Jacinta would go to heaven, but Francisco would need to say many rosaries first.
http://www.theotokos.org.uk/images/jpg/covairia.jpgLucia asked about two young women who had died recently, and was told that one was in heaven and the other, her friend Amelia, would be in purgatory "until the end of world."
“Are you willing to offer yourselves to God and bear all the sufferings He wills to send you, as an act of reparation for the conversion of sinners?”
“Then you are going to have much to suffer, but the grace of God will be your comfort.”
13 June 1917
“Say the Rosary every day, to bring peace to the world and the end of the war.”
“I want you to come on the 13th of next month, [July] to pray the Rosary every day, and to learn to read. Later, I will tell you what I want.”
“If he is converted, he will be cured during the year.” (reference to a sick person)
"I will take Jacinta and Francisco shortly; but you will stay here for some time to come. Jesus wants to use you to make Me known and loved. He wishes to establish the devotion to My Immaculate Heart throughout the world. I promise salvation to whoever embraces it; these souls will be dear to God, like flowers put by Me to adorn his throne."
“No, my daughter. Are you suffering a great deal? Don’t lose heart. I will never forsake you. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way that will lead you to God.”
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August 1917
"Go again to the Cova da Iria on the 13th and continue to say the Rosary every day.
Mary also said she would perform a miracle, so all would believe, and that if they had not been kidnapped it would have been even greater. Lucia then asked how the growing shrine should be administered, and requested cures for the sick, being told that some would be cured during the year.
"Pray, pray very much, and make sacrifices for sinners; for many souls go to hell, because there are none to sacrifice themselves and pray for them."
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This is something that a spiritual director could help anyone with. This very question is the most important question of this life: Am I going to Heaven?
Code: 
    If someone follows the teachings of the  Church,  avoids sin, goes to  Mass & partakes of the sacraments especially Communion and Confession,  does good works and makes penance for their sins  then  we have the Promise of the Victory of Christ.     The  devil constantly says the  way to Heaven  is hard.  Christ Himself  said  few  find it.  Yet we must always trust in the Church.   This is where the need for a spiritual director  comes to light.
Praying we all Make it,
Thomas
 
Thank you to each and every one of you for taking the time to read and reply to my thread!:flowers: I honestly looked forward to coming home and reading all the responses.

I did contact a couple different priests but am having trouble getting a return call. Hopefully, I’ll get one tomorrow. I guess the fact that I have struggled with anxiety for most of my life comes into play with my trusting in Jesus. Again, I desperately WANT to trust him…but always have that tiny, lingering doubt that he will reject me on judgement day.😦 I will not give up though until I can find PEACE because I know that with God’s help, I can find it.
 
I think when Jesus told us to trust Him (in Divine Mercy in My Soul), He didn’t mean that most souls go to Heaven… if we trust Him, He will help us in our salvation, but most don’t trust Him and don’t believe

in another part of the book, St Faustina was shown two paths, one was very narrow and people on it suffered in all kinds of ways, but got to Heaven… the other path was very broad and there were many more people on it, and they were all smiling and having fun, but they went to hell. (it’s like what Jesus said about the narrow way). I think it shows the human condition today, how people have lost the sense of sin and only care about this world, but this doesn’t lead to eternal life
 
Monica4316 said:
I think when Jesus told us to trust Him (in Divine Mercy in My Soul), He didn’t mean that most souls go to Heaven… if we trust Him, He will help us in our salvation, but most don’t trust Him and don’t believe

in another part of the book, St Faustina was shown two paths, one was very narrow and people on it suffered in all kinds of ways, but got to Heaven… the other path was very broad and there were many more people on it, and they were all smiling and having fun, but they went to hell. (it’s like what Jesus said about the narrow way). I think it shows the human condition today, how people have lost the sense of sin and only care about this world, but this doesn’t lead to eternal life
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Then I don’t make it. I am not holy enough. I am 1/1.000.000 as holy as the least holy Saint.

I will continue to pray that our Lord died for all of us, and that his grace will save me.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
Then I don’t make it. I am not holy enough. I am 1/1.000.000 as holy as the least holy Saint.

I will continue to pray that our Lord died for all of us, and that his grace will save me.
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I am not holy either… but not only the Saints make it to Heaven 🙂 as long as you try your best and stay in a state of grace, that is good 🙂

God bless!
 
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.”

Very few people make it to heaven. That’s perhaps the reason of the many visitations of Jesus and Mother Mary. She cried tears of blood for us and our Lord died for us and because of too sinful mankind we nailed Him all over again to the cross.

It’s through His Divine Mercy that Jesus wants us to be saved, He desires that all mankind be saved. This is also the reason why the late Pope John Paul II put such profound emphasis to the Divine Mercy.

As Jesus taught St. Faustina of the novena, this is what He wants in the FIRST day:
“Today bring to me all mankind, especially all sinners, and immerse them in the ocean of My mercy. In this way you will console Me in the bitter grief into which the loss of souls plunges Me”.

“My Heart finds joy in forgiveness. I have no greater desire nor happiness than to be able to forgive . . . I cannot punish even the most hardened sinner, if he appeals to My Mercy. He is immediately granted pardon through My incomprehensible and unfathomable Mercy . . . I open wide the doors of My Mercy. He who does not wish to avail himself of My Mercy will have to pass through the doors of My Justice . . . Let no soul fear to draw near to Me, even though it’s sins be as scarlet.”

Jesus desire for mankind to trust Him. It is through His greatest attribute that is His Mercy we have been given a HOPE for salvation.

“Speak to the world about My mercy … It is a sign for the end times. After it will come the Day of Justice. While there is still time, let them have recourse to the fountain of My mercy.” (Diary 848)
 
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