Contradicting the Faith for a Grade

[zz912]

Not sure what the official Catholic position is on marijuana use but when I was in college, I did a talk in favor of legalizing it.

Quick aside. Here is the CCC on drugs:

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use*, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense**. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

2211 The political community has a duty to honor the family, to assist it, and to ensure especially:

• the freedom to establish a family, have children, and bring them up in keeping with the family’s own moral and religious convictions;
• the protection of the stability of the marriage bond and the institution of the family;
• the freedom to profess one’s faith, to hand it on, and raise one’s children in it, with the necessary means and institutions;
• the right to private property, to free enterprise, to obtain work and housing, and the right to emigrate;
• in keeping with the country’s institutions, the right to medical care, assistance for the aged, and family benefits;
• the protection of security and health, especially with respect to dangers like drugs, pornography, alcoholism, etc.;
• the freedom to form associations with other families and so to have representation before civil authority.*

From a practical standpoint, you can still oppose drug use and production, while at the same time be in favor of their legalization (I personally am). The reason for this is that you would be reducing crime and violence by doing so. Personally I am in favor of legalizing drugs and regulating them, and promoting abstinence and addiction recovery programs. With our current program of making them illegal though, we have created vast criminal empires that are worse than if they were legal.

 

[catholictiger]

Thanks for the replies. I haven’t been put in this situation yet and so I’m asking only in anticipation. From reading ahead in the textbook I feel that I could be put in such a situation. For example it claims something along the lines of the Torah being fabricated as propaganda to assert Hebrew supremacy ( am i right to disagree wih such statements in the first place?) And also, since I’m in college it’s hard to imagine such a situation not coming up within the next four years. Since I struggle in these situations already, I feel that it’s important to know this before such a situation comes up.

what kind of class is this?

do you think this is going to come up on a test

will you have to write a paper on this.

a test is an interesting situation. If you know your teacher is incorrect but he/she puts something on the test that you know is wrong but you know how he/she wants it answered do you answer what he/she is looking for or do you give the answer you believe is correct. I think you could justify answering what she is looking for if you think of it this is testing you on what the textbook said and what was said in class so you answer what he/she is looking for. But I hope you would talk to the professor about the error you think he/she has.

on a paper just write according to _____ the Pentateuch says _____. Plus most academic papers is you making an argument using sources to back up what you say. So in theory you can say that so and so made this claim and even if this statement is in disagreement with what you believe you aren’t lying or contradicting the faith.

I had to write a paper on Kant and restate his position even though I have the opinion that it is wrong. You will have to do this many times in college.

 

[steve_b]

I definately do accept all the church teaches. I mean I guess lying on an essay and a discussion based class. Some of which males assumptions contrary to what we believe. I’m wondering if for the sake of a grade if we can pretend to or speak as if we agree

Address the assumptions as being assumptions. You don’t have to agree with assumptions. Let your yes mean yes and no mean no.

 

[DavidFilmer]

This is an interesting topic, especially when “opinion” is removed but the teaching is still wrong. Objectively and demonstrably wrong.

Both my high-school and college Physics textbooks claimed that the expansion of the universe was slowing down (due to gravity), and eventually gravity would cause the universe to stop expanding and contract back on itself.

That’s flat-out wrong. Granted, this was some 30 years ago, but we have known that the rate of expansion of the universe is accelerating since 1929. Not one single credible astrophysicist would disagree with this well-established fact. The universe reached escape velocity at the Big Bang.

But my textbooks (and instructors) were under the very old notion that expansion was slowing (this is a Newtonian-era idea that refuses to die).

So, if I am issued a multiple-choice test, and am asked, “Is the rate of expansion of the universe slowing down?” and my choices are “yes” or “no,” what to I pick? Do I pick “yes” and agree with what is taught in my textbook and by my instructor, or do I go with Edwin Hubble and pick “no?”

But, then I think back to my father, a civil engineer (they design roads, dams, bridges - that sort of thing). When I was in my early teen years, and began thinking about college, he sat me down and gave me some insight. The purpose of college, he told me, was not to teach him how to be a civil engineer. That’s a fast-moving target, with new material sciences and construction techniques coming on line practically every day. The purpose of college, he told me, was to prove that he could learn TODAY what was being taught TODAY. Thus, TOMORROW, when he was no longer in college, his employer would have confidence that he could adapt to the changing technology.

My father taught me that my role as a college student was NOT to proclaim the latest physics (if you count 1929 as the “latest”), but to learn what was being taught in my class TODAY (regardless of how incorrect and outdated it was) and be able to demonstrate a mastery of it.

As a college student, your role is to master the material (even if it’s dog poop).

(My comments do not apply to high school students, who are compelled to be in school, but to college students, who voluntarily place themselves in situations where they might have to study and master dog poop. Think of it as intellectual boot camp.)

 

[JonNC]

No, it wouldn’t, not just by Catholic teaching but by the principles of academic integrity.

I doubt that this is actually necessary. Students are, in my experience, prone to assume that the professor wants them to agree with him or her, when any decent professor wants nothing of the kind. Professors want to see that you know the material and are thinking critically about it.

So state what has been presented in class fairly and accurately, not as your own opinion but as that of the professor or textbook or whatever. Then, if you have time and occasion, add a note saying that you disagree. If appropriate, give reasons why. (A brief exam question would not be the place for this–a lengthy essay might.) A good professor will be impressed by this.

Edwin

Hi Edwin,
This is not my experience with colleges of education, and subsequently, in public education. If you are a student wanting to teach, or wanting to pass a teacher certificate test (Praxis II), or a teacher wanting to continue to teach, you best tow the current pedagogical party line.

At least that’s my experience.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Would it be permissible for me to say something that contradicts Catholic doctrine to help get a good grade? Say that the contradiction would be in line with what was directly taught in class.

I think it is possible, in many instances, to provide the answer the professor wants, without compromising your own integrity and faith. As a public school teacher who is far more traditionalist than the current progressive hierarchy in public education - from local school districts to the US Dept. of Education, I have learned to answer questions without claiming adherence to the answer I provided. “Many educators believe that…”, “Some studies purport to show that…”, “The author of the book. “___” offers the opinion that…”

The strategy, however, comes to a halt if the question is phrased, “What do you believe…”. Then my only advice is to document and evidence your view as thoroughly as possible, and hope your professor is as Edwin says most are.

Jon

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Hi Edwin,
This is not my experience with colleges of education, and subsequently, in public education. If you are a student wanting to teach, or wanting to pass a teacher certificate test (Praxis II), or a teacher wanting to continue to teach, you best tow the current pedagogical party line.

At least that’s my experience.

Jon

Jon. . .in my experience also. Sad, but true.

 

[C794]

Thanks for the replies. You have all given good replies. I do want to point out a mistake I made (this wasn’t the reason for my question). So my text book never called the Torah propaganda, but it did state that its purpose was to justify Hebrew claims to power or something along those lines. I guess interpretating this as propaganda isn’t too for far off. I guess I wanted to point this out because I felt bad for my mistake. My textbook does make mistakes when talking about religion (I think, I get nervous that I may be the one who has it wrong) Again this isn’t the purpose of this question; I’m sure I’ll struggle with this throughout the next for years. My issue isn’t even with a current assignment; I’m mostly seeking an answer for when the situation arises (and it most definitely will).

 

[White_Peony]

It’s difficult, but always state the truth. “Do what is right, because it is right and leave the consequences in God’s hands.”

 

[Contarini]

Hi Edwin,
This is not my experience with colleges of education, and subsequently, in public education. If you are a student wanting to teach, or wanting to pass a teacher certificate test (Praxis II), or a teacher wanting to continue to teach, you best tow the current pedagogical party line.

At least that’s my experience.

Jon

f

Jon,

I already have a very low opinion of education programs. In my experience, they define teaching in terms of teaching “skills,” which essentially means that you achieve some measurable result. This is antithetical to a liberal arts education, and education faculty are pretty much incapable of understanding what liberal arts faculty are doing.

That is not to say that indoctrination isn’t to be found in the liberal arts too. Again, I’m describing what a good professor (by my definition, which is probably not that of an education program–I was certainly not a good professor by the standards of the educatino faculty) is up to.

Edwin

 

[JonNC]

f

Jon,

I already have a very low opinion of education programs. In my experience, they define teaching in terms of teaching “skills,” which essentially means that you achieve some measurable result. This is antithetical to a liberal arts education, and education faculty are pretty much incapable of understanding what liberal arts faculty are doing.

That is not to say that indoctrination isn’t to be found in the liberal arts too. Again, I’m describing what a good professor (by my definition, which is probably not that of an education program–I was certainly not a good professor by the standards of the educatino faculty) is up to.

Edwin

You are not alone in this, Edwin. My brother is an English professor at a university not terribly far from where I live, and he has the same low opinion of colleges of education. As for me as an elementary teacher, I just don’t agree with the progressive methods they saddle young teachers with.

Jon

 

[PDT]

If by your question you mean that you were taught something in, say, a religion class which stands in contradiction to the revealed Faith (Catholic Church dogmas) then, no, it would not be permissible or right to simply give the answer a teacher expects you to give, which he or she has erroneously taught, just for a good grade. Might I suggest the following tactic: you might write out what you are expected to say (were wrongly taught) by the teacher, then, also include the correct response (that which you know the Church has taught dogmatically,) citing also the encyclical, or Pope, or saint, or Doctor of the Church who has caused you to accept and believe this correct answer. In this way, you will receive your good grade while simultaneously instructing an errant teacher. And the teacher, hopefully, if you are respectful in your defense of the truthful answer, should not be angered or offended. I hope this helps.

 

[libbybeth]

Don’t lie; use sentences such as " Some people consider that"; or “it may be argued”; or “Not all people hold to this view”. Essays are not personal. If your tutors wish for a deeply personal view, this is totally unethical, and is not to be tolerated. As a person in education, you are supposed to be investigating and assessing different lines of evidence - you may tell them so from me. I am a lecturer in Law from the UK.

In tutorials and discussions, you can say: " I would like to consider this line of thinking as well". Do not lie; just say that things need to be considered or assessed

 

[JonNC]

Don’t lie; use sentences such as " Some people consider that"; or “it may be argued”; or “Not all people hold to this view”. Essays are not personal. If your tutors wish for a deeply personal view, this is totally unethical, and is not to be tolerated. As a person in education, you are supposed to be investigating and assessing different lines of evidence - you may tell them so from me. I am a lecturer in Law from the UK.

In tutorials and discussions, you can say: " I would like to consider this line of thinking as well". Do not lie; just say that things need to be considered or assessed

Precisely. That’s what I had to do in order to pass the Praxis II (teacher certification tests).

Jon

 

[libbybeth]

Well done Jon! I am now retired, but do as I and many others did; as a teacher or a lecturer, teach whatever you are required to, but do not ever compromise your beliefs. Do not ever be ashamed of Jesus. I found that in a totally atheistic environment, students would ask me my views specifically. I had usually said nothing until this point but then expressed my faith. This resulted in many lively discussions with students who were actively engaged. They were still free to make their minds up, but at least they knew the basis of what I was saying, and one student came into class after work experience one summer proclaiming that he had been converted and was now a Christian! God bless and good luck to you!

 

[michaelhager]

This is a long post but I’ll chime in with a personal “Non religious” version of this thread.

I once took an art history class that consisted of sitting through presentations of art by currently exhibiting and up coming artists displaying and describing the process of crating their works.

The assignment in the class was to keep a journal of all of the classes and turn it in at the end of the semester for a grade.

My personal opinion of each of the artists varied but for all I was quite unimpressed with their work, and by my personal standards of acceptable art, “Would I hang it in my house?” the answer was an unequivocal no!

So the quandary, do I write a glowing report of these artists I did not agree with for the grade, or tell the truth about my beliefs?

I chose the high road and wrote exactly what I felt about each artist in the best language I could summon, never name calling or being harsh, but merely a studied critique of their work.

The professor wrote a somewhat caustic remark on the front of my journal, but actually gave me an A+ for my honesty and actually completing the assignment as instructed.

I guess the point is, as in all things, and especially our faith, “he truth will set you free.”

 

[quilisma]

I can recall two similar incidents that came up during my university “education” 30 years ago.

One was a course on “Ancient Religions of Greece and Rome”. Turned out the class had nothing to do with ancient Greece or Rome – it was one long anti-Christian tirade. At the end of the course we had to review a book that presented a particularly virulent attack on Christianity (fortunately I don’t remember what the book was). On the final I let the instructor know exactly what I thought of the book’s viewpoint. He failed me not only on the test, but for the entire course. I figured it might look like an F on the university’s transcript but, hopefully, an A on God’s. I know which one I consider more important in the long run.

The second was a senior-level course in Italian history, in which the instructor “taught” that the Church was hand in glove with Mussolini throughout the Fascist period and that Popes Pius XI and XII were major contributors to the oppression of the Jews and the rest of the Italian people. I spent hours in the library hunting for a more balanced perspective and entitled my term paper “Mussolini vs. the Church”, in which I reported on the Vatican’s efforts to save as many of the Jews as possible, the many ways in which the Popes opposed Mussolini’s actions, and the derogatory statements Mussolini made about the Popes which showed his awareness of their opposition. The instructor gave me an A on the term paper, with his comment: “I don’t believe a word of it, but it’s well researched and well written.” (I don’t remember what grade he gave me for the course overall.)

What was the difference between the two? Well, in retrospect, I think the first time I was giving my own perspective without citing other sources (not that that should matter, but…) and the second time I supplied citations from published sources to support my thesis. I still think it’s a shame that instructors will dismiss a student’s own perspective if it is presented as the student’s own thoughts, but will at least grudgingly respect it if the student can back it up with some OTHER person’s published perspective… but I guess that’s the way the world works.

 

[powerofk]

I can recall two similar incidents that came up during my university “education” 30 years ago.

One was a course on “Ancient Religions of Greece and Rome”. Turned out the class had nothing to do with ancient Greece or Rome – it was one long anti-Christian tirade. At the end of the course we had to review a book that presented a particularly virulent attack on Christianity (fortunately I don’t remember what the book was). On the final I let the instructor know exactly what I thought of the book’s viewpoint. He failed me not only on the test, but for the entire course. I figured it might look like an F on the university’s transcript but, hopefully, an A on God’s. I know which one I consider more important in the long run.

The second was a senior-level course in Italian history, in which the instructor “taught” that the Church was hand in glove with Mussolini throughout the Fascist period and that Popes Pius XI and XII were major contributors to the oppression of the Jews and the rest of the Italian people. I spent hours in the library hunting for a more balanced perspective and entitled my term paper “Mussolini vs. the Church”, in which I reported on the Vatican’s efforts to save as many of the Jews as possible, the many ways in which the Popes opposed Mussolini’s actions, and the derogatory statements Mussolini made about the Popes which showed his awareness of their opposition. The instructor gave me an A on the term paper, with his comment: “I don’t believe a word of it, but it’s well researched and well written.” (I don’t remember what grade he gave me for the course overall.)

What was the difference between the two? Well, in retrospect, I think the first time I was giving my own perspective without citing other sources (not that that should matter, but…) and the second time I supplied citations from published sources to support my thesis. I still think it’s a shame that instructors will dismiss a student’s own perspective if it is presented as the student’s own thoughts, but will at least grudgingly respect it if the student can back it up with some OTHER person’s published perspective… but I guess that’s the way the world works.

Actually, the reason why this is the case has to do with the following: All opinions have to come from somewhere. If you write a long paper without citations from other people, the professor pretty much assumes that you plagiarized the whole thing, which is very possible, or that you don’t know how to back up your own view. Every number and/or date must be cited, because numbers and dates are not common knowledge (so you either copied it or made it up - both are forms of intellectual dishonesty).

 

[JonNC]

Actually, the reason why this is the case has to do with the following: All opinions have to come from somewhere. If you write a long paper without citations from other people, the professor pretty much assumes that you plagiarized the whole thing, which is very possible, or that you don’t know how to back up your own view. Every number and/or date must be cited, because numbers and dates are not common knowledge (so you either copied it or made it up - both are forms of intellectual dishonesty).

We don’t know if this was the case for quilisma, who wrote; *At the end of the course we had to review a book that presented a particularly virulent attack on Christianity (fortunately I don’t remember what the book was). On the final I let the instructor know exactly what I thought of the book’s viewpoint. * There is no statement here that quilisma did or did not reference sources for the oppositional viewpoint he/she provided on the test.

The point, however, is well taken. If you are going to provide an opinion, be sure you have sources available to support your POV.

Jon

 

[Lost_Sheep]

Just as an example, if you were asked if you agreed that condoms can help prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, you could say “Yes” because it is probably a true statement.

If you were asked if you agree that condoms should be given out to high school students to prevent the spread of STDs, you would have to say “No.”