Contradiction: God's complete kindness vs some in hell forever.

[zhoudu]

I am confused about Catholic faith. So, I come here to look for the answer. Please help me if you can. Thanks!

According to the Roman Catholic Church, God created the world, in other words, all things except God. And now it is certain that some beings, at least the fallen angels, will remain in big pain in the hell forever. So, I am confused: It seems to be contradictory to God’s complete kindness that he created the world in which some beings will remain in big pain in the hell forever.

God is always completely kind, and he knew what would happen if he created the world before he created the world, since he always knows everything. So, before he created the world, he was supposed to consider the terrible situation carefully and tried to avoid it. There was at least one solution - he just did not create anything. He created the world in complete freedom. And, he created the world not because he needed something from the world, since he always lacks nothing. So, this solution is feasible. And if he had created nothing, it seems that everything is OK. There would be only God, who is completely perfect, completely good and in complete happiness. So, considering that there was at least one solution to the permanent big pain, why have he still let it happen? It seems that this is contradictory to God’s complete kindness.

We may blame the fallen angels and say that their pains are due to their sins. This may be true. However, after all, their permanent big pain is terrible, which God should try to avoid.

So, does anyone have any answer of this? If you have an answer, please tell me. Thanks!

 

[Brendan]

It is so because God love us.

Love, by definition, is never forced. It violates the nature of Love to be compelled. And thus it violates the nature of God to do so.

So that means that all rational creatures, angels and humans alike, are given the free choice to love God or to reject Him.

Because of the very nature of Love (not being compelled) it requires in Love, that decision of the rejecting party be accepted.

So they are allowed to do so.

The sufferings of Hell, while liked to fire, is, in actuality, the pain of separation from God, a pain that they have freely chosen themselves.

God desires that no person ever be separated from Him, and He gives to each person the Graces to come to Him.

But, since He Loves all, by definition, He respects their decision to separate themselves from Him.

 

[Padster]

The fallen angels deserve everything that is coming to them. They are scum. They have helped, with man’s assistance, to make the world a living hell. They don’t deserve your sympathy. They aren’t some ‘loveable rogue’ type. Until you happen across them you will never understand how vile they are.

Best wishes,
Padster

 

[CB_Catholic]

I am confused about Catholic faith. So, I come here to look for the answer. Please help me if you can. Thanks!

According to the Roman Catholic Church, God created the world, in other words, all things except God. And now it is certain that some beings, at least the fallen angels, will remain in big pain in the hell forever. So, I am confused: It seems to be contradictory to God’s complete kindness that he created the world in which some beings will remain in big pain in the hell forever.

God is always completely kind, and he knew what would happen if he created the world before he created the world, since he always knows everything. So, before he created the world, he was supposed to consider the terrible situation carefully and tried to avoid it. There was at least one solution - he just did not create anything. He created the world in complete freedom. And, he created the world not because he needed something from the world, since he always lacks nothing. So, this solution is feasible. And if he had created nothing, it seems that everything is OK. There would be only God, who is completely perfect, completely good and in complete happiness. So, considering that there was at least one solution to the permanent big pain, why have he still let it happen? It seems that this is contradictory to God’s complete kindness.

We may blame the fallen angels and say that their pains are due to their sins. This may be true. However, after all, their permanent big pain is terrible, which God should try to avoid.

So, does anyone have any answer of this? If you have an answer, please tell me. Thanks!

What I don’t understand is why people who ask this question do not recognize the fact that those who go to hell put themselves there by their rebellion against God and refusal to repent or even believe in Him. Note, I said refusal, not innocent ignorance.

God is infinite goodness, he is also infinite justice. He gives us a choice. The fallen angels had a choice, they wanted to rebel against God. Since they have freewill, he let them. They got what they wanted. But we want to blame God instead of them, when in actuality, they chose their fate by their own free will. And that is what happens with people. They blame God, when in reality they choose to reject God, refuse to repent, refuse to follow his will, and turn their backs on Him. In the end, they get what they want. God will not cross their freewill. Freewill is God’s gift to us.

BTW, we should never try to tell God what He should do, don’t you agree?

 

[TimothyH]

Who says that God is completely kind? I have never heard that.

I love my children but I am not always completely kind to them. Sometimes I have to be very unkind for their own good.

And who are we to tell God what he was supposed to do? Only one person ever got to tell God what he was supposed to do. Her name was Mary.

-Tim-

 

[DavidFilmer]

You are under a misconception regarding hell.

The people in hell CHOSE to be there. They DO NOT WANT to be in heaven. They have rejected God, and God will not force himself upon them (which is the last thing they want).

**Nobody will be dragged into hell kicking and screaming that there has been some mistake. ** Hell is exactly where they WANT to be. Nobody in hell will wring his hands and say, “gosh, I should have behaved myself better so I can be in heaven.” They don’t WANT to be in heaven.

Hell might not be pleasant, but it is preferable (for them) to heaven.

 

[MacQ]

I am confused about Catholic faith. So, I come here to look for the answer. Please help me if you can. Thanks!

According to the Roman Catholic Church, God created the world, in other words, all things except God. And now it is certain that some beings, at least the fallen angels, will remain in big pain in the hell forever. So, I am confused: It seems to be contradictory to God’s complete kindness that he created the world in which some beings will remain in big pain in the hell forever.

God is always completely kind, and he knew what would happen if he created the world before he created the world, since he always knows everything. So, before he created the world, he was supposed to consider the terrible situation carefully and tried to avoid it. There was at least one solution - he just did not create anything. He created the world in complete freedom. And, he created the world not because he needed something from the world, since he always lacks nothing. So, this solution is feasible. And if he had created nothing, it seems that everything is OK. There would be only God, who is completely perfect, completely good and in complete happiness. So, considering that there was at least one solution to the permanent big pain, why have he still let it happen? It seems that this is contradictory to God’s complete kindness.

We may blame the fallen angels and say that their pains are due to their sins. This may be true. However, after all, their permanent big pain is terrible, which God should try to avoid.

So, does anyone have any answer of this? If you have an answer, please tell me. Thanks!

Perhaps He put us here (among other flawed beings) to learn how to love with the kind of unconditional love He loves.
He gave us free will because forcing us to love wasn’t he idea (what would that accomplish).

It’s not a stretch to reconcile the idea of a God who hopes we al make it with a God who gives us the choice not to.

 

[MacQ]

You are under a misconception regarding hell.

The people in hell CHOSE to be there. They DO NOT WANT to be in heaven. They have rejected God, and God will not force himself upon them (which is the last thing they want).

**Nobody will be dragged into hell kicking and screaming that there has been some mistake. ** Hell is exactly where they WANT to be. Nobody in hell will wring his hands and say, “gosh, I should have behaved myself better so I can be in heaven.” They don’t WANT to be in heaven.

Hell might not be pleasant, but it is preferable (for them) to heaven.

Indeed, that is the way I understand it.

 

[vtech2009]

But isn’t it true that desire not to go to Hell is not enough?

I noticed some to be more lenient, focusing on hell being a choice, that you need to believe etc.

While others being more strict, quoting that the road is narrow, that faith and good works is needed.

We need to trust in God’s infinite mercy.

 

[MacQ]

But isn’t it true that desire not to go to Hell is not enough?

I noticed some to be more lenient, focusing on hell being a choice, that you need to believe etc.

While others being more strict, quoting that the road is narrow, that faith and good works is needed.

We need to trust in God’s infinite mercy.

Indeed we do.
I think it’s not so much “not wanting to go to Hell”…(no one does)…but a desire to be with God. Not wanting to be separated from Him.

 

[zhoudu]

Thanks all of you who give answers.

However, it seems that no one has considered that God could have not created anything. If God has not created anything, hell can be avoided, as well as other terrible things.

Additionally, some may argue that if God has not created anything, we cannot exist, which seems to be bad. But, from an objective view, it is not bad, since it is not bad for things that never exist never exist. Also, there could be more things existing that actually don’t exist. But it is not bad for “them” to never exist.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Thanks all of you who give answers.

However, it seems that no one has considered that God could have not created anything. If God has not created anything, hell can be avoided, as well as other terrible things.

Additionally, some may argue that if God has not created anything, we cannot exist, which seems to be bad. But, from an objective view, it is not bad, since it is not bad for things that never exist never exist. Also, there could be more things existing that actually don’t exist. But it is not bad for “them” to never exist.

Forgive me if I’m missing something, but if God didn’t create anything, HEAVEN would not be possible for us either.

How do you know that non-existence is better than existence?

 

[Lucy107]

What I don’t understand is why people who ask this question do not recognize the fact that those who go to hell put themselves there by their rebellion against God and refusal to repent or even believe in Him.

Probably because they do not subscribe to Catholic theology. Chances are they don’t even know much about Catholic theology, or have mistaken notions about it.

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You are under a misconception regarding hell.

The people in hell CHOSE to be there. They DO NOT WANT to be in heaven. They have rejected God, and God will not force himself upon them (which is the last thing they want).

**Nobody will be dragged into hell kicking and screaming that there has been some mistake. ** Hell is exactly where they WANT to be. Nobody in hell will wring his hands and say, “gosh, I should have behaved myself better so I can be in heaven.” They don’t WANT to be in heaven.

Hell might not be pleasant, but it is preferable (for them) to heaven.

Could you please cite a CCC reference for this?

What you’re saying seems to be quite different from the things one usually hears on this matter.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Probably because they do not subscribe to Catholic theology. Chances are they don’t even know much about Catholic theology, or have mistaken notions about it.

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Could you please cite a CCC reference for this?

What you’re saying seems to be quite different from the things one usually hears on this matter.

You won’t find the depth in the CCC, check out this link and scroll through. Let me know your thoughts

catholictreasury.info/books/everlasting_life/

 

[Lucy107]

You won’t find the depth in the CCC,

Why not?
The topic seems to be one that ought to be readily answerable with a copy-paste from the CCC.

check out this link and scroll through. Let me know your thoughts

catholictreasury.info/books/everlasting_life/

Could you be more specific, please?

I have the works of Garrigou-Lagrange on my reading list, but having read a bit from “The Three Ages of the Interior Life,” I know he has a very condensed writing style where every sentence is important; it’s a slow read for me.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Why not?
The topic seems to be one that ought to be readily answerable with a copy-paste from the CCC.

Could you be more specific, please?

I have the works of Garrigou-Lagrange on my reading list, but having read a bit from “The Three Ages of the Interior Life,” I know he has a very condensed writing style where every sentence is important; it’s a slow read for me.

Your can check around the 1027 area of the CCC. Its there but brief which leads to footnotes and further reading. Yes, in sequence you wind up at Lagrange. Lucy I can’t remember the exact point, but its addressed in that link as I remember reading it.

Nobody will be dragged into hell kicking and screaming that there has been some mistake.

He talks about a fixed state of being and I “think” its in the particular judgement section. Which should give perspective to your above point. Yes, I have read some of his work, Trinity and God the Creator was good. I kinda lose interest with a strict Thomas view. Don’t get me wrong I see genius in his work and you can’t help but acknowledge him, but there is much genius in the Church.

 

[zhoudu]

I think that the hell is too terrible to be compatible with God’s complete kindness. I used to be a Catholic but now I am not because of this.

 

[MacQ]

I think that the hell is too terrible to be compatible with God’s complete kindness. I used to be a Catholic but now I am not because of this.

Then you misunderstood your catechesis, or it was sorely wanting…you might want to reconsider, and find a way to better understand catholicism. (don’t try that via these forums for sure). Check out programs at a parish near you, or look into Father Barron’s “Word on Fire” programs. You might be glad you did.
It would be so sad to see you throw something away for the wrong reasons.

 

[TimothyH]

I think that the hell is too terrible to be compatible with God’s complete kindness. I used to be a Catholic but now I am not because of this.

Nowhere does it say that God is completely kind. That’s not in the Bible. It isn’t taught anywhere.

-Tim-

 

[zhoudu]

Nowhere does it say that God is completely kind. That’s not in the Bible. It isn’t taught anywhere.

-Tim-

Well, maybe it is taught in the other word “omnibenevolance” or something else, isn’t it?