Contradiction in teaching on salvation?

[Iron_and_Clay]

Consider the following 3 quotes:

1. “There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)

1215 is a number that identifies with the priesthood, to save the souls of men, not the sons of god.

1. “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

I will agree with you again, we can call the activity of the catholic church, a “gathering” of helpers, not of his elect. As one is being a “subject” in the indicated passage, to another.

1. “The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

This year, if I command the stars to move, and the heavens to bow, all men will believe. If i command the sun to breath, or the sky to mourn, all men will believe. If i cause a twig to break or a fowl to give me an ear, all men will believe. And the law which was spoken will be fullfilled. I must be delivered and not crucified, but you will crucifity me to break the law, and remove the mercy my god has given you, I AM WHO I AM.

**My questions are:

1. Do these constitute official Catholic teaching?
   **
   They do, because they identify with a second creation.

2. How can these be squared with the Vatican 2 teaching:

“This * holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way. For, since Christ died for all men, and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery.”*

If you act quickly, because my time is short you will succed where the the tribe of DAN has not, to amend a contradiction in your law you cannot amend, by the crucifician of his son. Salvation and the church, cannot exist, because the shame is too much a burden for you,and the punishment of your own moral laws you do not kept. The tribe of Ephraim will finish where the tribe of DAN has left off to mortify the son, to recieve the sign of fire and brimstone you desire, to reward those who reject A LIE. I AM WHO I AM

 

[chypmonk]

If anyone is interested there are a lot of people discussing this topic here:
catholicforum.forumotion.com/f9-no-salvation-outside-the-church

 

[SouthpawLink]

JL: Southpaw could you give the source, I would like to read it. Thanks

abyssum.wordpress.com/2010/11/22/pope-benedict-xvi-on-jews-women-priests-the-burqa-and-oh-yes-the-condom/

wdtprs.com/blog/2010/11/benedict-xvi-on-the-good-friday-prayer-for-jews/

iteadthomam.blogspot.com/2010/11/pope-benedicts-confused-opinion-on-jews.html

Here is the passage, from the recently-released book, Light of the World: The Pope, the Church and the Signs of the Times:

"I must say that from the first day of my theological studies, the profound unity between the Old and New Testament, between the two parts of our Sacred Scripture, was somehow clear to me. I had realized that we could read the New Testament only together with what had preceded it, otherwise we would not understand it. Then naturally what happened in the Third Reich struck us as Germans, and drove us all the more to look at the people of Israel with humility, shame, and love.

"In my theological formation, these things were interwoven, and marked the pathway of my theological thought. So it was clear to me – and here again in absolute continuity with John Paul II – that in my proclamation of the Christian faith there had to be a central place for this new interweaving, with love and understanding, of Israel and the Church, based on respect for each one’s way of being and respective mission . . .]

“A change also seemed necessary to me in the ancient liturgy. In fact, the formula was such as to truly wound the Jews, and it certainly did not express in a positive way the great, profound unity between Old and New Testament. For this reason, I thought that a modification was necessary in the ancient liturgy, in particular in reference to our relationship with our Jewish friends. I modified it in such a way that it contained our faith, that Christ is salvation for all. That there do not exist two ways of salvation, and that therefore Christ is also the savior of the Jews, and not only of the pagans. But also in such a way that one did not pray directly for the conversion of the Jews in a missionary sense, but that the Lord might hasten the historic hour in which we will all be united. For this reason, the arguments used polemically against me by a series of theologians are rash, and do not do justice to what was done.”

• So, Our Lord is the Savior of the Jews as well, but they don’t need to convert in this life?

And what mission do the Jews have, which apparently does not include their conversion to the one true faith?

 

[Robert_Burns]

I think that protestantism has stood in the way of the Truth for too long leading too many souls into err and I also think that the Church has some concern about this. protestantism is keeping millions of people away from the Sacraments and the Church Jesus built. Plus, protestantism has become a scandal to the world since they contradict most of the teachings of the Catholic Church and has caused doubts in the minds of many who wants to know Christ. I think in the last decades with all misenterpretation of the documents, it led many to believe that any religion is just as good as the other. This assumption is false and people need to come to the roots of Christianity to know exactly what we should believe. the belief that spread throughout the world that the CC has changed the teachings that she no longer is necessary for salvation is real and it is being said by some priests also even today.

Most of the speculation regarding whom will be and will not be saved is exactly that . Speculation. As a Catholic - we must always be reminded that Salvation is guaranteed to no one. Only GOD will determine who is saved and who isnt. So we can opine about externals until the end of time and still have nothing definitive to report. Certainly in knowing ones faith - we are taught that the Universal Truths diseminated by the Universal Church is the way the Truth and the Life and that no one cometh to the Father but by Me(Jesus) What we do not know is the specific criteria for each individual as predicated by the decisions that person made of their own free will when they encountered the TRUTHS of GOD. It is upon that that we will each be judged. Therefore - as Catholics , our charge should be to spend more time spreading the good news so that more people will encounter GOD’S Truth - whether that be by Our Word or Our Deed - by Good example or by living ones faith - by doing instead of merely talking about it. Certainly this isnt meant as criticism of anyone here. But no one here is qualified to see into the soul of ones neighbor - to see the world through his eyes and through his experiences. We are relegated to our own experieinces and our own cooperation with the Will of GOD for each of us. So are we to say that No Mormon will enter heaven for example? We dont know. And the Church teaches what she teaches so as to lead people to salvation. Not to condemn them. The Church teaches revealed Truth. But the reason for these truths is meant for conversion.

In my view , more needs to be done to foster conversions rather than coexistance.

 

[Gregory_I]

The Pope was wrong.