Contradiction??

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ADIEL

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Can somebody shed light to this seemingly contradicting verses

Isa 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.”

Luke 2:11 “For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.”
 
There is no contradiction in those two verses, Isa 43:11 is a part of the prophecy about Christ’s coming into the world, and Luke 2:11 is the fulfillment of the prophecy.
 
I like to use the following example to explain that Christians believe in only one God, and that the Trinity is not three gods.

(this is not my idea - it came from letusreason.org/Trin7.htm)

It is a fact of chemistry that plain water, when placed in a vacuum under gas pressure of 230 millimeters and at a temperature of 0 degrees Centigrade, Will solidify it into ice at the bottom of the container, the liquid will remain in the center and at the top it vaporizes! At a given moment the same water is both solid, liquid and gas, yet all three are manifestations of the same base substance H2O - hydrogen/ two parts; oxygen/ one part.

more…
When you boil water on the stove, the water vapor is released into the air. This water vapor is no longer contained in a pan, it is every where in your apartment. Yet it is the same water.

Now, which is greater; the Creator, or the creation?

Since God can create a substance that is able to do all this, including be in all places at the same time without changing its chemical makeup….why would you think God cannot do the same? God is everything, He can do everything. Water is nothing. Yet, we cannot live without water, just as we cannot live without God.

There is only one God. Jesus is God. But, God is not Jesus.
 
It would be nice if there were a way to explain things so everyone could understand clearly. But God is the only one who can give a person understanding of the spiritual things.

You know the verse that says no one comes to the Father except thru Jesus and then says no one can come to Jesus unless the Father send him?

It’s pretty clear that God will give understanding to whom He wants, when He wants and that those who are not earnestly seeking will be left in the dark.

It’s been a struggle for me with unbelievers whom I love. I have found the greatest success in persuading someone is simply praying for them and waiting for God to prepare them for His message. Then, when God opens their mind to understanding, they begin to listen and it makes sense to them and they believe.

The best proof of that is that YOU understand what I’m saying. To unbelievers it doesn’t make sense and no matter how hard we try, it never will. But to you and I we understand. It’s so obvious! It makes sense! ONLY BECAUSE GOD GAVE US TO UNDERSTANDING.
 
ADIEL said:
Can somebody shed light to this seemingly contradicting verses

Isa 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.”

Luke 2:11 “For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.”
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What about these two verses do you find contradictory and why?
 
I find them contradictory based on…

How could be the Father God be the only savior when it is written JESUS CHRIST is our savior who died on the cross?”

Is the Father God telling lie?
 
ADIEL said:
I find them contradictory based on…

How could be the Father God be the only savior when it is written JESUS CHRIST is our savior who died on the cross?”

Is the Father God telling lie?
Click to expand...
Jesus **is **God. There is no contradiction.
 
ADIEL said:
I find them contradictory based on…

How could be the Father God be the only savior when it is written JESUS CHRIST is our savior who died on the cross?”

Is the Father God telling lie?
Click to expand...
Laudatur Iesus Christus.

The word “LORD” refers to God Himself. Hence, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are included in this one “name.” This is similar to Jesus’ words, “Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost,” (Matthew 28:19).

In this verse Jesus refers to “the name” (singular) and then associates it with each of the Persons of the Trinity. This makes it clear that the word “LORD” is a single name for the Triune God Himself.

The two verses you highlight are therefore not a contradictory, but rather a they touch on the mystery of the Holy Trinity.

Spiritus Sapientiae nobiscum.

John Hiner
 
you should also check out the thread

the phrase God and Jesus

there is explainations there that may help 🙂
 
ADIEL said:
Can somebody shed light to this seemingly contradicting verses

Isa 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.”

Luke 2:11 “For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.”
Click to expand...
John 14:6-7 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me. If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him. And you have seen Him. 🤷
 
Based on the verses below, It is not possible that God is Jesus HIMSELF ?

1 Tim 3:16 KJV “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit…”
Phi 2:6 “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”
1 John 3:16 KJV “Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us…”
1 John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
John 10:30 “I and my Father are one.”
 
ADIEL said:
Based on the verses below, It is not possible that God is Jesus HIMSELF ?

1 Tim 3:16 KJV “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit…”
Phi 2:6 “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”
1 John 3:16 KJV “Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us…”
1 John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
John 10:30 “I and my Father are one.”
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Every one of those verses say that Jesus was God. I don’t see how you can say that when it says ‘God was manifest in flesh’ that it is not saying that Jesus was God.
 
Adiel,

Your problem lies in your insistence that the Trinity does not exist…accept the Trinity and it all makes PERFECT sense.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…and the word became flesh and dwelt among us.
 
ADIEL said:
Can somebody shed light to this seemingly contradicting verses

Isa 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.”

Luke 2:11 “For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.”
Click to expand...
And just who do you think Jesus Christ is? He’s YHVH (LORD all in caps) Incarnate.
 
Quote Adiel: “Based on the verses below, It is not possible that God is Jesus HIMSELF ?”

Like I said before God is not Jesus. But Jesus is God. Below are some verses that might help:

MICAH 1:3 For look! the Lord is going forth from His place, and He will certainly come down and tread upon the earth’s high places.

This verse says that God will come to Earth.

JOHN 10:30 I and the Father are one. 33 The Jews answered him, “We are stoning you not for a fine work, but for blasphemy, because you, although being a man, make yourself God.

Jesus claimed to be God and the Jews understood this.

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 14:8-11 Philip said to Jesus, “Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need.” Jesus answered, "Philip, I have been with you for a long time. So you should know me. The person that has seen me has seen the Father too. So why do you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you truly believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The things I have told you don’t come from me. The Father lives in me, and he is doing his own work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or believe because of the miracles I have done.
 
Ginger2 said:
To unbelievers it doesn’t make sense and no matter how hard we try, it never will. But to you and I we understand. It’s so obvious! It makes sense! ONLY BECAUSE GOD GAVE US TO UNDERSTANDING.
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Ginger, G-d gave Jews understanding too. In fact, there is nothing to difficult to understand about G-d’s Torah.

Isaiah 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me

Deut 30:10If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

**11For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. **

12It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

13Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

**14But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. **
15See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

16In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

17But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

18I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

19I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
 
Bennie_P said:
John 14:6-7 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me. If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him. And you have seen Him. 🤷
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Psalm 86:5 (King James Version)

5For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee.

Jews believe that
Any Jew or nonJew can send a prayer straight to G-d. G-d answers my prayers. Sometimes yes, sometimes no and sometimes wait. And I did not have to go through another person to have my prayers answered
 
I was specifically speaking of atheists. Jews are not atheists/

As for Jews…the first Christians were Jews.

The Jews before Jesus’ birth were saved by the promise.

Today there are “Jews for Christ”

God will call His own home - in His own timing.

I do not judge Jews who have not, yet accepted Christ as the Messiah.

Now, I could say a lot more, but I would be speculating. What I do know is that it is Jesus Christ who has given us the gift of salvation. He is the only way to be saved.

BTW, I didn’t read your entire post. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. My comment had nothing to do with being saved by understanding. Nor does being able to humanly comprehend what you read. The point is that God can give us understanding to things that are beyond human comprehension.
 
I see you are Jewish. In that case I will add that I have great respect for the those who are Jewish. Afterall, it is the Hebrew God that I worship and I am thankful for a God who is so merciful, forgiving and loving that He would allow me to share in your inheritance.
 
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