Contradictions in Matthew 5:17-18 and Acts 10:9-16?

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Gorgias said:
Two thoughts:
  • footnotes are neither Scripture nor magisterial teaching
  • this footnote doesn’t make the claim you have made here
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Two thoughts:
  • Your second thought makes your first thought unnecessary
  • Perhaps you’re correct
 
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JulesR said:
In Matthew 5:17-18 Jesus says that he didn’t come to abolish the law but to fulfill it, and He also said that “not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:18). But in Acts 10:9-16 it describes how Peter received a vision and was told to “kill and eat” (Acts 10:13). Wasn’t it against Jewish law to eat things deemed “unclean”? Wouldn’t telling Peter to eat what was deemed “unclean” be abolishing a part of the law? I’m confused because these two scriptures seem to be contradicting each other but I feel like there’s gotta be something I’m missing.
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There’s no contradiction.
Fulfilling the law does not erase it. Mosaic laws are not in effect…
The First Christians of the New Way to God - were Jews…
Now - even Jews are not bound by Mosaic Law - whether or not they want to accept that…
 
Gorgias said:
There is no distinction between Jew and Gentile. Trust me, if you asked a Jewish person if they’re a Gentile, they’d set you straight on your misunderstanding.
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It is not what do the Jews say, but what does God say. The Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah/Christ. If the Sanhedrin was still the authoritative teacher we have not entered the new covenant. If the Old Covenant was not annulled, Jesus could not establish a New Covenant. Jesus’ death like the death of a spouse annulled the covenant by fulfilling it. The Old Covenant still exists so that we can see what and how Jesus fulfilled it.
 
Bruce_Killian said:
If the Old Covenant was not annulled, Jesus could not establish a New Covenant.
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Sure about that?
[Jesus said,] "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.

Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.

Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven."
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(Mt 5:17-19)

Does that sound like the Law has been annulled?
 
Yes I am sure about that
The Lord (Jesus) was betrothed to Israel when they came out of Egypt.

Jeremiah 2:2 RSV "Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem, Thus says the LORD, I remember the devotion of your youth, your love as a bride, how you followed me in the wilderness, in a land not sown.

The Lord gave Israel a bill of divorce

Jeremiah 3:1 RSV "If a man divorces his wife and she goes from him and becomes another man’s wife, will he return to her? Would not that land be greatly polluted? You have played the harlot with many lovers; and would you return to me? says the LORD.

Jeremiah 3:8 She saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce; yet her false sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the harlot.

The new covenant is the new marriage

Jeremiah 31:31-32 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the LORD.

The Lord cannot remarry unless Jesus or Israel died! Because Israel was scattered among the gentiles the only way for Jesus to marry all Israel is to marry the church which includes Israel scattered among the gentiles.
Grace and peace, Bruce
 
JulesR said:
In Matthew 5:17-18 Jesus says that he didn’t come to abolish the law but to fulfill it, and He also said that “not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:18). But in Acts 10:9-16 it describes how Peter received a vision and was told to “kill and eat” (Acts 10:13). Wasn’t it against Jewish law to eat things deemed “unclean”? Wouldn’t telling Peter to eat what was deemed “unclean” be abolishing a part of the law? I’m confused because these two scriptures seem to be contradicting each other but I feel like there’s gotta be something I’m missing.
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That describes an ordered sequence of events

Jesus comes to fulfill the law ☞ He fulfills the law ☞ Peter then is NOT required to obey that Dietary law

IOW
Fulfill the law = retire certain parts of the law

Example:

“Hear me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him.” And when he had entered the house, and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) (Mark 7:14-19)
 
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Bruce_Killian said:
The Lord cannot remarry unless Jesus or Israel died! Because Israel was scattered among the gentiles
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Excuse me? Jews – those who were not among the ten lost tribes – are not “scattered”. They have continued to exist as such throughout history. No… if you want to make historically inaccurate assertions, please expect to be corrected. 😉
Bruce_Killian said:
the only way for Jesus to marry all Israel is to marry the church which includes Israel scattered among the gentiles.
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And yet, Jesus explicitly tells the Jews that their covenant is not annulled, as you have asserted. 🤔
 
Gorgias said:
Excuse me? Jews – those who were not among the ten lost tribes – are not “scattered”. They have continued to exist as such throughout history. No… if you want to make historically inaccurate assertions, please expect to be corrected.
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They were still part of Israel who the Lord made the covenant with and who broke the covenant. And the Jews are part of Israel whom made the covenant with the Lord which was annulled by His death or we will still need to be circumcised, keep kosher, go to Jerusalem 3 times for a week each and offer sacrifice. These laws are no longer in force and since the destruction of the Temple in 70AD the Jews cannot keep.
 
Bruce_Killian said:
the Jews are part of Israel whom made the covenant with the Lord which was annulled by His death
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Still not seeing the “annulment” you’re asserting. Nor does Scripture or Apostolic Teaching assert it. 🤷‍♂️
Bruce_Killian said:
or we will still need to be circumcised, keep kosher, go to Jerusalem 3 times for a week each and offer sacrifice
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Red herring. “We” are Gentiles, not Jews. The witness of Acts tells us that this isn’t required for Gentiles. If you want to make the argument you’re proposing, you’ll need to show where Jesus, or Scripture, makes the argument that Jews aren’t held to the Law.
Bruce_Killian said:
These laws are no longer in force
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Not true.
Bruce_Killian said:
since the destruction of the Temple in 70AD the Jews cannot keep.
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Now you’re starting to get a feel for the angst of the Jewish people. 👍
Bruce_Killian said:
No it is annulled, not abolished.
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So, show me the text that says “I have not come to abolish the Law, but to annul it.” 😉
 
Gorgias said:
Red herring. “We” are Gentiles, not Jews. The witness of Acts tells us that this isn’t required for Gentiles . If you want to make the argument you’re proposing, you’ll need to show where Jesus, or Scripture, makes the argument that Jews aren’t held to the Law.
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Peter was a Jew, and the Lord commanded him to eat an unclean animal Acts 10:13-14 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. Also Paul confronts Peter on this issue. Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?” Paul was saying Peter who was living like a gentile reverted to living like a Jew when confronted.
 
Bruce_Killian said:
Peter was a Jew, and the Lord commanded him to eat an unclean animal Acts 10:13-14
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That was a vision, and Peter later interpreted it appropriately, in the context of Gentile behavior. Nevertheless, you bring up an important point: the Mosaic law applies to Jews, not Christians. (After all, following the razing of Jerusalem, ca 70AD, Christians were expelled from fellowship with Jews.) Your point still fails to hold. 🤷‍♂️
 
EndTimes said:
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Gorgias:
Huh? How so?
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The New Testament thoroughly explains it… I’m surprised you’ve not heard?
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LOL! Are you conflating “Christians of Jewish backgrounds” with “Jews”? If not… let’s see what you’re referring to, please…
 
EndTimes said:
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Gorgias:
Are you conflating “Christians of Jewish backgrounds” with “Jews”?
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No. Jesus’ Teachings apply to all…
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So… Jews are required to embrace Christian theology and practice in order to attain to heaven? That seems to be where you’re going to go with this.
 
Gorgias said:
So… Jews are required to embrace Christian theology and practice in order to attain to heaven?
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No I didn’t say that…

Jesus - Messiah of all - specifically addressed Jews… Some accepted and some rejected…

Any rejections to Christ/Christianity - never abrogates His Truth…

Faith in JESUS is the New Way… The Way to Salvation

Such is what Catholics Profess is Truth - no matter what others might believe.

Nor am I claiming that no other belief system contains no truth…

Nor am I claiming that some, any or no - Jews - are going to Hell.

Anything else?

_
 
EndTimes said:
Anything else?
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Sure. So, if you’re not claiming that salvation may belong to Jews who are not Christians, then perhaps you can show where Jesus (or other Scriptural authors) informed Jews (who are not also Christians) that they no longer need to follow the Mosaic Law. After all, that’s the claim you’ve made.
 
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