Contradictions in the Bible

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Dear friends:

I was recently on another post about authorship of the Bible. I had a question about some of the contradictions in the Bible and someone mentioned that perhaps I should start a thread on it. Another poster mentioned that the contradictions were easily explained, and I thought that would make for some good discussion. I am only interested in getting at the truth one way of the other, and I would like to hear any thoughts anyone might have about contradictions in the Bible.

Your friend
Sufjon
It seems to me your dilemna is a matter of authority…who can interpret it correctly or with authority that you can accept?

If you do not know the history of the Bible, I would start from there. What was the purpose of why the Bible was put together? How did it come to be as you know it today? Who put it together and who were the writers/authors? I am of the mind that history will put it in an objective perspective, so I implore to look at it objectively too.

Then, ask this question: Should not the church that put it together, that was written for that church, know how to properly interpret?
 
The fact that there is some contradiction between the accounts contributes to the idea that they were eyewitness accounts.

Eyewitness accounts are never the same, they’ll agree on the major details, but differ on minor things. The death of Judas is both minor, and likely not something they actually witnessed, but they’re just passing along what they’ve held.

If anything it shows the idea of the synoptics being built from each other to bewrong, since they would have been sure to keep the same account, but as you admit, the synoptics include two different accounts.
Hi Nine Two: The fact that they don’t match could also mean that they were unaware of one another, or unaware of what the others were writing. Stories that don’t match are not just characteristic of eye witness accounts. Inconsistent stories are also a characteristic of hearsay. In my thinking that puts me back o square one. My real question is the infallibility of what they wrote, and the idea of them having been divinely inspired or guided by the Holy Spirit. I think there are too many mistakes or inconsistencies for that to be the case.

Your friend
Sufjon
 
Many on this website have made claims that they have the one and only way to God as opposed to everyone else’s way. As part of their reasoning, many of these people have put forth one or more of the following assertions:
Code:
-The Bible was written by God.

   -The writing of the New Testament was guided by the Holy Spirit. 

-The writing of the New Testament was inspired directly by God.
Now my dilemma should start to come into focus. If any or all of the three assertions above are correct, the discrepancies are most problematic, and it strikes at the core of any assumption that one way of worship has the upper hand on another way of worship, because beyond some very basic tenets, we really don’t know what we’re dealing with. Not to be disrespectful, but it also implies (in my thinking) that if God had a hand in writing it, His Hand was a little shaky. Another possibility is that God thought that some obfuscation would make the already arduous path to God more interesting. A third possibility is that God had no hand in writing it in the first place. Why? This is my dilemma.

Your friend
Sufjon
Hello again, Sufjon,

Consider this question. If one assumes that the Bible was written by God, that the Holy Spirit guided the writing of the New Testament and/or that the writing of the New Testament was inspired directly by God, how does one categorize the typos that have appeared in some editions of the Bible, for example, the notorious, “Thou shall commit adultery,” commandment that evidently appeared in an edition of the Bible published in England around 1630.

The answer given to that question by those that defend the position of biblical inerrancy coupled with the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is along the lines of “despite the fallibility of human beings, God’s Word is still inerrant.” While some might consider such a response somewhat feeble, it is in fact, the only one possible. If there were a better one we’d have heard it by now. The fact that there have been Bibles published that have contained typos clearly suggests that when it comes to the Bible we may reasonably expect to find ourselves involved in some sort of synergism. Announcing that, “God’s Word is inerrant,” is certainly a stance adopted by some but as God’s approach to us is synergistic and there’s no getting away from the fact that people make mistakes the statement actually contains little meaning when it comes to the practical application. Moreover, suggesting that, “God’s Word is inerrant,” gives no indication of which canon of the Bible is being promoted.

It seems to me that there is only a dilemma here if one proceeds on the assumption that the doctrine of Sola Scripture or its attendant variations, Prima Scriptura and SOLO Scriptura, is/are a reliable basis for discerning subjective truth. However, if one presupposes that the Bible doesn’t have the elevated status gratuitously bestowed upon it by the Reformers then one’s understanding of divine inspiration will be that of the Church and consequently one may with relief dispense with the frustrating mental gymnastics that Bible–Only adherents are required to perform in order to sustain their position.

By the way, which Bible have you decided to use as the basis for your inquiry and why? 🙂

Curiously,
Mick
👍
 
It seems to me your dilemna is a matter of authority…who can interpret it correctly or with authority that you can accept?

If you do not know the history of the Bible, I would start from there. What was the purpose of why the Bible was put together? How did it come to be as you know it today? Who put it together and who were the writers/authors? I am of the mind that history will put it in an objective perspective, so I implore to look at it objectively too.

Then, ask this question: Should not the church that put it together, that was written for that church, know how to properly interpret?
Hi pablope: Those are good questions. I have been looking at it objectively, and a lot of bible scholars place the 4 commonly used Gospels as having been written between 70 and 90 CE by authors other than the Apostles. This is a widely held view. To add to that we have no original copies of even those writings. The first copy of any thing we have is a fragment of a page of John from around 150 CE. From there, what we have are hand transcribed copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies translated from one language to another. Your question as to who wrote them and what were their agendas is a matter of some genuine import. Sorting through it to gain some understanding of what we have is my concern.

Your friend
Sufjon
 
Hi Nine Two: The fact that they don’t match could also mean that they were unaware of one another, or unaware of what the others were writing. Stories that don’t match are not just characteristic of eye witness accounts. Inconsistent stories are also a characteristic of hearsay. In my thinking that puts me back o square one. My real question is the infallibility of what they wrote, and the idea of them having been divinely inspired or guided by the Holy Spirit. I think there are too many mistakes or inconsistencies for that to be the case.

Your friend
Sufjon
“Mark” may have been the first to be written…I think there is great evidence toward this…it has one of the most “primitive” christologies…and the oldest do not have the vivid accounts of the resurrection. Matthew and Luke used Mark as a basis of their gospels…then incorporated other material not known to the other author…there may have been another sourse which German scholars dubbed “Q” “quelle” for source in German…this would explain the common material between the three synoptics…as well as the different material found in Luke and Matthew.

The character of God is known in Jesus of Nazareth…he is the “exact representation of His person”. We often view God as a “Taskmaster” who is waiting for us to mess up and delights in punishing us…but Jesus shows us a God that is loving and merciful and gentle…a God who leaves the rest of His flock to search for the one lost sheep…a Father who waits day after day at the door…watching down the road for the child that wants to return…and when He sees the child…“while a far distance off…He ran to him and embraced him…” Jesus showed us a God of mercy and compassion…and honors the man who in honesty says…“Lord I believe…help my unbelief…”

God is not standing in the wings waiting for someone to “believe” a set of doctrines or dogmas…or perform a set of rituals or have them performed for him or to him…God is Within…That of God indwells each of us…we need only respond to the Light Within and follow this Light…even if it goes against what others tell us…“Mind the Light”…you won’t go wrong…it’s an awesome and frightening Journey to place oneself in the Hands of God in trust and faith…believing He will not let you fall…Friend you are in Good Hands…believe in that…to me that is the essence of the message of Jesus of Nazareth…we are loved with an Everlasing Love…God calls us to Himself as a Lover…not an angry parent.
 
“Mark” may have been the first to be written…I think there is great evidence toward this…it has one of the most “primitive” christologies…and the oldest do not have the vivid accounts of the resurrection. Matthew and Luke used Mark as a basis of their gospels…then incorporated other material not known to the other author…there may have been another sourse which German scholars dubbed “Q” “quelle” for source in German…this would explain the common material between the three synoptics…as well as the different material found in Luke and Matthew.

The character of God is known in Jesus of Nazareth…he is the “exact representation of His person”. We often view God as a “Taskmaster” who is waiting for us to mess up and delights in punishing us…but Jesus shows us a God that is loving and merciful and gentle…a God who leaves the rest of His flock to search for the one lost sheep…a Father who waits day after day at the door…watching down the road for the child that wants to return…and when He sees the child…“while a far distance off…He ran to him and embraced him…” Jesus showed us a God of mercy and compassion…and honors the man who in honesty says…“Lord I believe…help my unbelief…”

God is not standing in the wings waiting for someone to “believe” a set of doctrines or dogmas…or perform a set of rituals or have them performed for him or to him…God is Within…That of God indwells each of us…we need only respond to the Light Within and follow this Light…even if it goes against what others tell us…“Mind the Light”…you won’t go wrong…it’s an awesome and frightening Journey to place oneself in the Hands of God in trust and faith…believing He will not let you fall…Friend you are in Good Hands…believe in that…to me that is the essence of the message of Jesus of Nazareth…we are loved with an Everlasing Love…God calls us to Himself as a Lover…not an angry parent.
Hi Publisher: You know I always like your views. They give me inspiration to press on!

Always your friend
Sufjon
 
Hi Nine Two: The fact that they don’t match could also mean that they were unaware of one another, or unaware of what the others were writing. Stories that don’t match are not just characteristic of eye witness accounts. Inconsistent stories are also a characteristic of hearsay. In my thinking that puts me back o square one. My real question is the infallibility of what they wrote, and the idea of them having been divinely inspired or guided by the Holy Spirit. I think there are too many mistakes or inconsistencies for that to be the case.

Your friend
Sufjon
As stated, that specific point most likely was hearsay. I doubt any of them witnessed the death, they were going by stories others told them.

What they wrote wasn’t infallible, as almost everyone here has stated. They were inspired/guided by the Holy Spirit, as opposed to writen by the Holy Spirit. They were men writing it, and they made mistakes or wrote things that were relatively inconsiquencial without checking other sources.

Now, if you can find a contradicition of real theological meaning, you might have a case, and if you would like to bring one up I’d love to see it.

Regarding the synoptics, that bit about them not knowing the others were writing kind of adds to my point. 😉
 
As stated, that specific point most likely was hearsay. I doubt any of them witnessed the death, they were going by stories others told them.

What they wrote wasn’t infallible, as almost everyone here has stated. They were inspired/guided by the Holy Spirit, as opposed to writen by the Holy Spirit. They were men writing it, and they made mistakes or wrote things that were relatively inconsiquencial without checking other sources.

Now, if you can find a contradicition of real theological meaning, you might have a case, and if you would like to bring one up I’d love to see it.

Regarding the synoptics, that bit about them not knowing the others were writing kind of adds to my point. 😉
Hi Nine Two: Thanks for the follow up. Actually I wasn’t looking for a case. I really can’t say whether any of it caused any theological problems or not. I am more of the notion that there is a broad general message, but was curious about people who tell me it was written by God or guided in some way. I am fine with people’s recollections from stories handed down until they were finally written. That makes sense.

Your friend
Sufjon
 
Hi Nine Two: Thanks for the follow up. Actually I wasn’t looking for a case. I really can’t say whether any of it caused any theological problems or not. I am more of the notion that there is a broad general message, but was curious about people who tell me it was written by God or guided in some way. I am fine with people’s recollections from stories handed down until they were finally written. That makes sense.

Your friend
Sufjon
The idea that it is the factually infallible word of God is quite common among Evangelicals, but for the most part this seems to be taking the idea of “Sola Scriptura” to its logical conclussion, rather than a well thought out theological possition, which as you rightfully point out, is full of holes.
 
Flyonthewall and zdhayden have both raised some good points. Now I would like to expand my contradictions to include a third verse: Acts 2:21 is a one step process and Romans 10:9 is a two step process. How so?
I don’t beleive these scriptures are mutually exclusive, but are inclusive.
For example those that will do the will of the Father, will call upon the Lord.
Those that call upon the Lord will believe in Him.
They are all peices of the same picture.
 
Hi pablope: Those are good questions. I have been looking at it objectively, and a lot of bible scholars place the 4 commonly used Gospels as having been written between 70 and 90 CE by authors other than the Apostles. This is a widely held view. To add to that we have no original copies of even those writings. The first copy of any thing we have is a fragment of a page of John from around 150 CE. From there, what we have are hand transcribed copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies translated from one language to another. Your question as to who wrote them and what were their agendas is a matter of some genuine import. Sorting through it to gain some understanding of what we have is my concern.

Your friend
Sufjon
Sufjon,

With you starting to look at it objectively is a good start. But be careful with what you read. Is the material you are reading scholarly, meant to inform and educate or is it slanted towards one view, meant to advance a position. I think the actual authors have been established with very little to doubt, so I think you can trust the names ascribed the books. As for physical authorship, i think is quite immaterial, as they could have dictated or where the authority behind a book-like the US president dictating a letter to a secretary or somebody writes a speech for him, but it is still his speech.

As for copies of copies of copies, the oral tradition of handing down have been a well established art in ancient times, same as copying. So I think you can trust too that what we have today are very close to what these actually were. If I was you, I would not be much concerned about this, as what copies of what we have today are what they are. I think this is a very minor concern. What should concern you maybe is does the translation keep the same original message each book is trying to tell? Is there a deviation? Also, have you heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls?

But I think you should be concerned more with important things-history, purpose, why was it put together, purpose of the biblical book, message of each book, etc.

Another question for you to consider: Before the Bible, how was church teaching imparted to the faithful? Is the original teaching the same as what is in the Bible as you know it today? Is it consistent?
 
Sufjon,

But I think you should be concerned more with important things-history, purpose, why was it put together, purpose of the biblical book, message of each book, etc.

/QUOTE]

Hi pablope: I have to agree - this is probably the only really important matter.

Your friend
Sufjon
 
pablope;7209728:
Sufjon,

But I think you should be concerned more with important things-history, purpose, why was it put together, purpose of the biblical book, message of each book, etc.

/QUOTE]

Hi pablope: I have to agree - this is probably the only really important matter.

Your friend
Sufjon
Sufjon

Just came across this link. It is a good start and is very informative.

alabamacatholicresources.com/
 
Perhaps the flaws we think we find in Scripture are not flaws in the texts, but in ourselves.
 
Hi JeanMichel: I am puzzled by a number of them. One would be the varying accounts of the death of Judas. One source has him throwing the 30 pieces of silver back in the Temple and then hanging himself. Another says that he kept the 30 pieces of silver and fell headlong onto rocks and split open at the middle. Still another says that he was trampled by horses. I have heard explanations like he hanged himself and then fell headlong onto rocks and then split open at the middle and then was trampled by horses. However, each account only gives one mode of death for Judas. None say that he hanged himself and then fell headlong onto rocks and then split open at the middle and then was trampled by horses. They say either one or the other or the other. Besides, the explanation of tying all three events together is a rather tortured explanation, and sounds a bit like something out of the life of Wiley Coyote. Is there some other explanation?

Your friend
Sufjon
Sufjon,

I am a little confused with your request because Biblically the full testimony shows that Judas got 30 pieces of silver for betraying Jesus, gave it back out of guilt, hung himself and when he hung himself his guts burst forth. Matthew says most of what I just wrote with Acts supplying the “guts bursting forth part”. I believe Mark and John are silent on the end of Judas.

I just do not see the contradiction. If you have Scripture to support the contradictions please supply it. I believe you are confusing Judas Iscariot with someone else in scripture.
 
Sufjon,

I am a little confused with your request because Biblically the full testimony shows that Judas got 30 pieces of silver for betraying Jesus, gave it back out of guilt, hung himself and when he hung himself his guts burst forth. Matthew says most of what I just wrote with Acts supplying the “guts bursting forth part”. I believe Mark and John are silent on the end of Judas.

I just do not see the contradiction. If you have Scripture to support the contradictions please supply it. I believe you are confusing Judas Iscariot with someone else in scripture.
Our friend Sufjon is just learning about the Bible and Christianity. So please be gentle with him (sorry Sufjon…LOL). I think currently, he wants to start with the history of the Bible to get an objective perspective of it. Then, I think he will move on. There is a lot for him to digest.
 
Our friend Sufjon is just learning about the Bible and Christianity. So please be gentle with him (sorry Sufjon…LOL). I think currently, he wants to start with the history of the Bible to get an objective perspective of it. Then, I think he will move on. There is a lot for him to digest.
Sufjon, has been on these forums for a while now, and I am responding to a question he had that no one else responded to. So I am not sure what you are getting at here.
 
Dear Totterman: Thank you so much for the reply. Here is some background on my concern. I am agnostic when it comes to Christianity. I am trying very hard to incorporate it into my belief system, but that’s a long story. The reason I am concerned is that I am running into significant variations in beliefs among Christians. These variations have much to do with how scriptures are read. A slight change on words here and there can end up as a huge difference in doctrine, dogma and overall belief down the road. Kind of how a mariner can make a tiny miscalculation at the outset of a journey that ends up taking him a thousand miles off course in the long term. This is what I am seeing in Christianity. Particularly on this web site, there seems to be a lot of concern about differences in doctrine and belief, and most of these are based on scripture. To that end, scripture seems largely to be the source.
Regretfully you are correct about there being so many variations in belief among Christians, especially among Protestants. This is one of the sad things in Christendom right now. Jesus called us to be one as He and the Father are one. He tells us this is how the world will know that I sent you is by your unity. Yet we have failed, but we must also fight hard and be diligent in seeking unity. This is what you are seeing right now. Which one is the right way?

The great thing about the Catholic Church is that we have Sacred Tradition and not just the Bible. What is the advantage of this? Well when one makes a translation of a document from one language to another, there are going to be things lost in the translation. So if all you have is the Bible, you are susceptable to those losses in translation. You are also susceptable to misunderstanding what is being said because you may not have the secondary knowlege that is required to understand what the author is trying to say. aka historical perspective, the audience, the situation being dealt with etc. This is what Sacred Tradition safeguards against.

I know that you are searching and I deeply respect this because that is how many of started. I was an agnostic at one time as well and so I have followed the same path that you are going through. Searching, learning and trying different beliefs and practises. I tell people I have been in my past I have been a pagan, deist, buddist, atheist, and pentecostal (I don’t think I missed anything). I have studied Islam, Hinduism, & Protestant beliefs as well. What I am saying is keep your open mind and search and you shall find.
I would have to agree with you that the general idea is good enough. That is good enough for me. The problem is that there is too much “play in the steering” being caused by this. Many on this website have made claims that they have the one and only way to God as opposed to everyone else’s way. As part of their reasoning, many of these people have put forth one or more of the following assertions:
Code:
-The Bible was written by God.

   -The writing of the New Testament was guided by the Holy Spirit. 

-The writing of the New Testament was inspired directly by God.
The Bible for us is meant to be read as a spiritual book. When people start focusing in on it as a history, science or future predictor book they will usually loose the true focus of the Bible. It is meant to help us find and learn about God. To me the Bible is God speaking to me. When I read my Bible, I am praying. Most of the time we view prayer as us talking to God and normally God doesn’t talk back. So prayer seems to be a one-way discussion. But in Scripture it goes the other way. God does all of the talking and we do the listening.

What I am saying is don’t get caught up in all of the frivoulus stuff that really doesn’t matter concerning your salvation. It doesn’t really effect your salvation whether or not the flood occurred way back when and Noah built an Ark, etc. No what effects your salvation is the truth concerning Baptism, which the flood symbolically represents.
Now my dilemma should start to come into focus. If any or all of the three assertions above are correct, the discrepancies are most problematic, and it strikes at the core of any assumption that one way of worship has the upper hand on another way of worship, because beyond some very basic tenets, we really don’t know what we’re dealing with. Not to be disrespectful, but it also implies (in my thinking) that if God had a hand in writing it, His Hand was a little shaky. Another possibility is that God thought that some obfuscation would make the already arduous path to God more interesting. A third possibility is that God had no hand in writing it in the first place. Why? This is my dilemma.
The major problem you are having is corrected in Sacred Tradition. Sacred Tradition is not founded and based upon the Bible. The Bible is part of Sacred Tradition but it isn’t the reason why Sacred Tradition exists. Sacred Tradition is the teachings handed down to us from the Apostles. This insures that the sum total of Doctrine is not impacted by translations. Again the main problem you are seeing is translation and/or misunderstanding how to interpret the Bible.

What I would recommend is for you to get a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and read it as a starting point. It is well layed out and provides many footnotes and references for you to use. If you really want to know Christianity this is where I would recommend you to start.

God bless.
 
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